Tim Cooke

Markoff has a match with Inoki in 1978-1979 that aired on New Japan Classics. Doubt that is worth checking out.

Can you link?

Lawler works as many (I believe many more but haven't watched the Clash match in a while) variations of the headlock against Race in 77 as Steamboat works against Flair in the Clash VI match. And Lawler isn't a technical wrestler by any means. Steamboat as a technical wrestler just doesn't make sense.

Has Wild Pegasus posted on any message boards since the Benoit incident?

Watched this last night. We need more JWA footage and I plan on picking up the Rikidozen Comml DVD's and anything else I can get my hands on. This was also on Frank Jewett's Best of Japan 1969 DVD and is interesting when watching it against Destroyer/Baba as a promotion that could run different style matches and make each look as good as possible. Markoff really worked a pseudo UWF kicking / Memphis heel here and like Loss said, Inoki was great as a babyface. The one thing I noticed was the nearfall section was a prototype of the New Japan and All Japan matches of the 1990's with the younger wrestler kicking out of bigger and bigger moves to bigger and bigger reactions from the crowd. Here, a body slam and knee drop substitute a german suplex and a brainbuster. I think the simpler formula could be brought back with some audience education as well. And that dropkick and subsequent sell was terrific. Tim

This was fucking awesome. I thought I had seen this but it must have been another 8 man with Austin or a 6 man with similiar teams. First off, a hell of a match to go into a PPV with. Everyone hates each other, so the PPV match up's don't have to be spoiled by working too much with your opponent. For instance, Eaton/Arn against the Steiners is basically summed up by the asskicking Sting gives both guys. Dustin and Barry are out for Larry, but everyone on the Dangerous Alliance is out for Dustin when he gets caught. The hip toss, flying headscissors into the stun gun and bump off the apron and on to the floor is one of my favorite tag team transitions. And the crowd is beyond hot and guess what, the legal guys are the two who finish the match, despite chaotic brawling towards the end. I have seen pretty much every other match on the DVD before so will have to re-watch but this was new and an instant classic for me.

Got mine Monday

I'm in as well

"Seriously, I don't see these deep stories people get from the matches, I just see good matches that a lot of the time really aren't that special." They aren't movies or books, I hope no one thinks that. But in terms of the booking, the way Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada/Taue/etc. kept upping their matches in terms of going off past matches, adding small storylines, etc. What matches from All Japan are just good but not special that are highly praised? If you are with WP, I can already name one. And Lawler being awesome doesn't need explanation. Watch the matches and then explain otherwise. Tim

Yes, AJ in the 90's is over rated. You always bring the goods!

On Lawler's punches, I'm not sure what you want from his punches. When he makes his comebacks on Bill Dundee in both Loser Leaves Town matches from the 80's, you couldn't ask for more intensity and fire. Same with the Savage/Lawler loser leaves town match. Never seen a Brody match come close to those. As for prescence, having never been able to see Brody live, I guess I can't qualify to Sam's opinions, but Necro Butcher comes off like he might just go off on someone in the audience at any time ifhe is not in the mood. I am very amused at your wrestling opinions though.

In anticipation of Bix's comp, plus receiving the updated "Legends" set from Shado-X, I watched the Chi Town Rumble and WrestleWar matches over the weekend. For all the Ric Flair hate of recent years (some of which is justified), the Chi Town Rumble match is one of the most non-formulaic Flair matches out there and just overall terrific. Has anyone watched the uncut PPV version? I have only seen the Commercial version in all my watchings. I am also very excited to see the Philly handheld match, which I haven't seen prior. Going to watch the Clash match this week, hoping that it will stand right by the Chi Town Rumble match as being worthy of going head to head with any match from the 80's. Tim

What lucha have you seen? What did you like/dislike about what you have seen? Tim

I haven't seen anything from TNA that I would give a second look at, possibly the 12/05 Styles/Joe match. MLW and XPW never had as large of TV as TNA has either, though I guess that is not what we are arguing.

Rock n Roll Express/Brad Armstrong vs. Midnight Express/Big Bubba (11/08/86) [aired on AJ Classics] Another 1986 NWA match with off the charts heat. Much more of a big spots/comedy match than a "let's try to kill the Express because we hate them" type of match. Whenever Bubba enters, the crowd almost goes hushed because he is so big and looks like he could kill any of the opponents with ease. All of the other typical MX/RnR spots are included in this match, including a new double leap frog ----> run into your team mate, which is always a great stooging spot. Well worth seeing and another fine example of Dennis Condrey > Stan Lane.

At least for the Attitude era, you had strong numbers, very over wrestlers, and hot crowds. TNA has never had any of these.

For however bad WCW was in 2000, they still had: - TV (Nitro, Thunder, SN [until April], Worldwide) - Touring Arenas - Actual audience and crowds (even if they were falling rapidly from previous years)

I've seen plenty of strong Benoit heel work where he blows snot on to his opponent, raises his hands in the air to get boo's, and is generally more of a prick to his opponent. But to follow up on what Loss said, WWE Heel Benoit is probably the least favorite of the "Benoit's". From the 1/31 Raw debut through March 2001, Benoit didn't come across as killer (and granted, some of that has to do with his move set being cut off as well as Ross screaming about the 'Wolverine'-what is more intense, a wolverine or a crippler?). But as a face, he also doesn't control the match, which can hurt if he is in with a poor opponent. Jericho is another guy in the WWE who was pathetic as a babyface in 2000-2001 (he was over and the fake title win was pretty amazing but I really found him bland, even in the series against Benoit) so maybe it is a WCW guys going to WWE problem.

Ki/Homicide vs. Joe/Lethal is a great match, but I will always have a soft spot for a classic southern tag. Those World's Greatest Tag Team matches were okay spotfests, but nothing I would want to re-visit. The No Mercy 2002 match isn't medicore (bad choice of words). It is not great though. When you have Benoit and Rey Jr. opposite of each other, you should be reaching the "good" level without having to try hard. But Edge is hardly more than passable here with his indy innovation offense really sticking out (I imagine Heyman was stressing that he should use all of it during this 12 week run). Even Benoit was bogged down, having to resort to using german after german without thought to keep up with his "go-go-go" partner Angle.

Watched this after seeing Bix's review. That was the best US tag I have seen in years. I have never really been impressed by MnM but they were spot on in this match, really making sure that everything they did had meaning. And the Hardy's know how to do the babyface schtick and are over, so they held up their part of the deal. I imagine when more people see this, it will start getting some recognition. Certainly liked this more than Benoit/Angle vs. Edge/Rey from No Mercy, especially with one being a very mediocre southern tag and the other being a greater primer for how to do southern tag wrestling in 2007.

It is in a pile of DVD's that are almost ready to go for you after I burn a few more discs.

Edit: Double Post - my work internet sucks

Danielson is coming back in April. So why would they need to replace him for now? Joe leaving sucks but in the long run, it is for the best. If TNA falls apart, Joe can come back, rested and fresh. The only bad part is that he was the ROH side of the NOAH feud, but hopefully this gives someone else the oppurtunity to step up.

Anarchistxx wrote: "Very good match, no doubt, but when you've seen Havoc it's rather disappointing. They try to work a different style, but aren't so good at it, at least with each other." I have seen a broad range of people make the first statement and there is some truth to that. You don't see the amazingly fast exchanges in the Smackdown match as you do in the Havoc match. You also don't see the two big highspots (which are easy top 5 highspots of the 1990's) in the flipping DDT and the Liger style flip into the rana. In 1997, these spots were out of this world (Rey had previously done the Liger flip into a rana on Eddy and Psicosis in AAA in 1995 and possibly on Juventud, not sure on the last one) and the flipping DDT spot may never be hit again. In 2007, these are still mind blowing highspots that really on Mascarita Sagrada and Mini Abismo Negro can attempt to pull off without botching. But in 2005, as Meltzer has pointed out numerous times, Eddy's back was 40 years older than he was. Catching Rey for all of his crazy moves isn't realistic (see their 3/28/04 Smackdown match where Rey attempts the flipping DDT and he is in place for it but Eddy just couldn't complete it) and Rey is working off of numerous surgeries on his knees and is a much more limited flier. So they do work a different style. Very much a hybrid of their own preferences for wrestling (Rey's flying, Eddy's love for being a heel) and mesh it with the WWE philosophy of telling a simple story that the fans can understand without any history. Replaced in the 6/23/05 match are extraordinary selling, some of the best I have ever seen in a WWE ring. This is not to say the selling sucked in the Havoc match because it was perfectly fine and fit the match. But they replace the highspots of their younger days with selling and storytelling. I'm rambling and haven't really made a point but what about the match didn't work for you? "I still maintain Rey's peak was 2002." Having not seen much of the 2002 matches since they happened, I can't be positive that after a re-watch I would hold the same opinion, but Rey's 2004-2006 can easily be argued as a peak for work as an all around performer. What he did in 1995-1996 was more revolutionary, but he is a top 5 guy in the world for almost every day of 2004-2006. Tim

Didn't you write in another thread about how you were enjoying wrestling more ever since you decided to do away with looking deeply at transitions, low end offense, etc? Serious question, not a troll.