TravJ1979

Really found his stride with WWE and was my favorite childhood wrestler. From '88 to '92 was his peak with a handful of fun/great matches, but not enough for a GOAT. Nothing of note on his resume before or after the initial run. Nothing against him, but for me he does not qualify.

He would rank high if this was the Top 100 Worst Wrestlers of All-Time. Granted, I haven't seen *any* stuff of his from 2010-present, but I've seen just about everything previous and he, flat out, is just not good. Zero athleticism. Overrated promo; much like Shane Douglas, he has to curse and/or scream in his promos to overcome the lack of substance. He doesn't have the resume of matches that I would expect from a GOAT candidate. Outside of matches where inanimate objects are the star and the wrestlers the supporting cast, I dare say he has less *decent* matches than any other nominee. I will give him credit in his bumping which I would say is his best attribute. From what I hear the Bully Ray gimmick is where he found his niche, but too little, too late.

Here are the results of My 2000's watch for Top 10 matches in TNA per year: NOTE: THESE ARE LISTED IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER, NOT IN QUALITY ORDER NWA-TNA Top 10's (6/19/02 - 12/31/09) 2002 1. Low-Ki v. AJ Styles v. Psicosis v. Jerry Lynn - Double Elimination, X Division Title; 6/19/02; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 2 (aired 6/26) 2. Low-Ki v. AJ Styles v. Jerry Lynn - X Division Title; 8/7/02; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 8 3. Low-Ki v. Ron Killings - NWA Title; 10/2/02; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 14 4. AJ Styles v. Syxx-Pac - No DQ, X Division Title; 10/23/02; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 17 5. AJ Styles v. Amazing Red - X Division Title; 10/30/02; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 18 6. AJ Styles v. Jerry Lynn - X Division Title; 11/6/02; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 19 7. Low-Ki/Christopher Daniels/Elix Skipper v. Amazing Red/Jose Maximo/Joel Maximo; 12/18/02; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 25 8. * 9. * 10. * NWA-TNA Wrestler of the Year 2002: AJ Styles 2003 1. Chris Harris/James Storm v. Sinn/Brian Lee - NWA Tag Titles; 1/8/03; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 26 2. Jerry Lynn v. Juventud Guerrera; 2/26/03; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 33 3. Chris Harris/James Storm v. Low-Ki/Christopher Daniels - NWA Tag Titles; 3/12/03; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 35 4. Jerry Lynn/Amazing Red v. Christopher Daniels/Elix Skipper - NWA Tag Titles; 4/16/03; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 40 5. AJ Styles v. Raven v. Jeff Jarrett - NWA Title; 6/11/03; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 48 6. Chris Harris/James Storm v. Christopher Daniels/Elix Skipper - NWA Tag Titles; 6/18/03; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 49 7. Chris Harris/James Storm v. Christopher Daniels/Elix Skipper - NWA Tag Titles, Cage Match; 6/25/03; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 50 8. Chris Harris/James Storm v. Simon Diamond/Johnny Swinger - Non-Title, Bullrope Match; 8/20/03; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 58 9. Chris Sabin v. Juventud Guerrera - Super X Cup Finals; 8/27/03; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 60 (aired 9/3) 10. Low-Ki v. Christopher Daniels; 11/12/03; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 69 NWA-TNA Wrestler of the Year 2003: James Storm 2004 1. Chris Sabin v. Juventud Guerrera - First Round America's X Cup; 2/4/04; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 80 (aired 2/11) 2. Team Mexico v. Team TNA - Finals of America's X Cup, Elimination Match; 2/4/04; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 80 (aired 2/11) 3. Chris Harris v. Jeff Jarrett - NWA Title; 3/17/04; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 85 4. Chris Harris v. Raven - Winner gets NWA Title shot in Steel Cage; 4/14/04; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 89 5. AJ Styles v. Jeff Jarrett v. Raven v. Chris Harris v. Ron Killings - KOTM, NWA Title; 6/2/04; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 96 6. AJ Styles v. Frankie Kazarian - X Division Title; 6/9/04; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 97 7. AJ Styles v. F. Kazarian v. C. Sabin v. A. Red v. M. Shane v. E. Skipper - X Division Title; 6/30/04; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 100 8. Chris Harris/James Storm v. Andy Douglas/Chase Stevens - NWA Tag Titles, Steel Cage; 7/21/04; TNA Weekly Pay-Per-View # 103 9. Petey Williams v. Chris Sabin - X Division Title; 12/5/04; Turning Point Pay-Per-View 10. Chris Harris/James Storm v. Christopher Daniels/Elix Skipper - Losers Split, Six-Sides Steel Cage; 12/5/04; Turning Point Pay-Per-View NWA-TNA Wrestler of the Year 2004: AJ Styles 2005 1. America's Most Wanted v. Team Canada (Roode/Young), Tag Titles ; 01/16/2005 ; TNA Final Resolution 2. Christopher Daniels v. AJ Styles, 30 Minute Iron Man, X Title ; 02/13/2005 ; TNA Against All Odds 3. AJ Styles v. Abyss - Steel Cage, # 1 Contender ; 04/24/2005 ; TNA Lockdown 4. Samoa Joe v. Chris Sabin ; 07/17/2005 ; TNA No Surrender 5. AJ Styles v. Samoa Joe ; 08/14/2005 ; TNA Sacrifice 6. Jerry Lynn v. Sean Waltman ; 08/14/2005 ; TNA Sacrifice 7. AJ Styles v. Samoa Joe v. Christopher Daniels - X Division Title ; 09/11/2005 ; TNA Unbreakable 8. AJ Styles v. Christopher Daniels, 30 Minute Iron Man, X Title ; 10/23/2005 ; TNA Bound for Glory 9. Austin Aries/Sonjay Dutt/AJ Styles v. Samoa Joe/Alex Shelley/Christopher Daniels ; 11/03/2005 ; TNA iMPACT! 10. AJ Styles v. Samoa Joe - X Division Title ; 12/11/2005 ; TNA Turning Point NWA-TNA Wrestler of the Year 2005: AJ Styles 2006 1. Samoa Joe v. Christopher Daniels - X Title ; 01/15/2006 ; TNA Final Resolution 2. Samoa Joe v. Christopher Daniels v. AJ Styles - X Title ; 02/12/2006 ; TNA Against All Odds 3. Samoa Joe v. Christopher Daniels v. AJ Styles - Ultimate X, X Title ; 03/12/2006 ; TNA Destination X 4. Christopher Daniels/AJ Styles v. America's Most Wanted, Tag Titles ; 05/14/2006 ; TNA Sacrifice 5. LAX v. Christopher Daniels/AJ Styles - Ultimate X - TNA Tag Titles ; 09/24/2006 ; TNA No Surrender 6. Chris Sabin v. Senshi, X Title ; 10/22/2006 ; TNA Bound for Glory 7. LAX v. Christopher Daniels/AJ Styles - Cage Match - TNA Tag Titles ; 10/22/2006 ; TNA Bound for Glory 8. Samoa Joe v. Kurt Angle ; 11/19/2006 ; TNA Genesis 9. LAX v. AMW - Flag Match ; 12/10/2006 ; TNA Turning Point 10. Samoa Joe v. Kurt Angle ; 12/10/2006 ; TNA Turning Point NWA-TNA Wrestler of the Year 2006: Samoa Joe 2007 1. Samoa Joe v. Kurt Angle ; 01/14/2007 ; TNA Final Resolution 2. Christian Cage v. Samoa Joe ; 03/11/2007 ; TNA Destination X 3. James Storm v. Chris Harris ; 05/13/2007 ; TNA Sacrifice 4. King of the Mountain Match ; 06/17/2007 ; TNA Slammiversary 5. Kurt Angle v. Rhyno v. Christian Cage ; 06/28/2007 ; TNA iMPACT! 6. Motor City Machine Guns v. Sonjay Dutt/Jay Lethal v. XXX ; 08/12/2007 ; TNA Hard Justice 7. Samoa Joe/Junior Fatu/LAX v. Christian Cage/AJ Styles/Triple X ; 10/04/2007 ; TNA iMPACT! 8. Christian Cage v. Samoa Joe ; 10/14/2007 ; TNA Bound For Glory 9. Kurt Angle v. Kazarian ; 11/15/2007 ; TNA iMPACT! 10. Chris Sabin v. AJ Styles v. Samoa Joe ; 11/22/2007 ; TNA iMPACT! NWA-TNA Wrestler of the Year 2007: Samoa Joe 2008 1. Kurt Angle v. Christian Cage ; 02/10/2008 ; TNA Against All Odds 2. Kurt Angle v. Samoa Joe ; 04/13/2008 ; TNA Lockdown 3. Kurt Angle v. Samoa Joe ; 04/24/2008 ; TNA iMPACT! 4. Petey Williams v. Kaz ; 06/08/2008 ; TNA Slammiversary 5. Kurt Angle v. AJ Styles ; 06/08/2008 ; TNA Slammiversary 6. 12 Man World X Cup Elimination Match ; 07/13/2008 ; TNA Victory Road 7. Kurt Angle v. AJ Styles ; 08/10/2008 ; TNA Hard Justice 8. Kurt Angle v. Jeff Jarrett ; 10/12/2008 ; TNA Bound for Glory 9. Samoa Joe v. Sting ; 10/12/2008 ; TNA Bound for Glory 10. MCMG's v. Beer Money ; 11/09/2008 ; TNA Turning Point NWA-TNA Wrestler of the Year 2008: Kurt Angle 2009 1. Alex Shelley v. Chris Sabin ; 01/11/2009 ; TNA Genesis 2. Kurt Angle v. Jeff Jarrett ; 01/11/2009 ; TNA Genesis 3. Christopher Daniels v. Samoa Joe ; 09/20/2009 ; TNA No Surrender 4. Kurt Angle v. AJ Styles ; 10/15/2009 ; TNA iMPACT! 5. Kurt Angle v. Matt Morgan ; 10/18/2009 ; TNA Bound For Glory 6. Kurt Angle v. Desmond Wolfe ; 11/15/2009 ; TNA Turning Point 7. AJ Styles v. Christopher Daniels v. Samoa Joe ; 11/15/2009 ; TNA Turning Point 8. Desmond Wolfe v. Christopher Daniels ; 12/17/2009 ; TNA iMPACT! 9. Kurt Angle v. Desmond Wolfe ; 12/20/2009 ; TNA Final Resolution 10. AJ Styles v. Christopher Daniels ; 12/20/2009 ; TNA Final Resolution NWA-TNA Wrestler of the Year 2009: Kurt Angle

There are quite a few female wrestlers that are very good, but I would not nominate any of them for a 100 GOAT list. I'm not even sure that I would call Sara Del Ray the best of the bunch, either.

I agree with Parv, Funk will be in my Top 10. Even past what he notes in his post, Funk in the 90's and even in the 2000's still had some shining moments. Funk v. Gilbert in ECW '93, Funk v. Lawler, both in USWA and indies in 1990, His return to the ECW arena in 1995 run with anti-hardcore Cactus Jack provided some great promos and brawls ... Then his late 90's WWF and WCW runs are a bit disappointing, but some of the hardcore matches he had on 2000 WCW PPV are just absolute fun. And although I haven't seen them yet, I'm told his 2003 matched with Homicide are good as well. Match of the Year candidates in three consecutive decades and still churning out enjoyable stuff in the 2000's is a testament to not only his longevity, but his ability to maintain the quality throughout.

Here is Dragon/Spanky v. Board of Education from TWA. It's a cage match and I thought Dragon looked like a future star in it, albeit still green in his decisions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RwzUCD_bH4 Here is another link from his first Japan tour of FMW. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btpg0RLmSqo

Parv, Where is the 1930's stuff? I've looked on Youtube and found only a handful of matches. I mean, there were many

Due to restrictions on available footage, the "all-time" aspect of this project has somewhat of a defined beginning of around 1950 or so when the amount of footage exploded thanks to the advent of television in the US. Even more so with the Chicago archive going up recently. This brings me to my two-part question: a) Are you going to bother to watch anything pre-1950's and Which wrestler(s) do you think are the earliest/oldest era guys you are willing to vote for based on the watching. I began yesterday watching everything I could find pre-1950 starting with the Stecher/Caddock 1920 match. Since I really only bothered to watch clips that were at least 5 minutes+, I was able to finish this time period in one day. I've seen maybe six matches/sets of clips that I felt were long enough to make some sort of critique. The downside of that is really one one match of each guy was available so it still wasn't enough to be worth it in my opinion. Then, I started watching the 1950's and and 60's, happening to start with a Buddy Rogers match and just followed the YouTube tunnel of his matches from there. Currently, I'm up to about 10 or 12 watched and he's really the first guy I've felt I've seen enough of to rank. Whether or not he'll make my list is yet to be determined, but he is nominated and a possibility. I think Rogers and his contemporaries are the first group I would consider ranking: Thesz, Carpentier, Schmidt, Gagne, etc. So after all of that it got me to thinking what PWO would think about this topic, so please share!

I've been trying to properly define my criteria before diving too far in to this. I certainly know that I don't want to just watch pimped/great matches from a particular wrestler. For example, you can't fairly judge Flair just on matches with Steamboat. You also have to judge his matches with the El Gigante's of the world to see if his *work* still holds up against far less talented workers. Words like 'longevity', 'diversity', and 'consistency' keep popping up as things to base my criteria on. Longevity - A lot of wrestlers have long careers, but how many are like, Terry Funk, who has great matches in no less than four decades? Diversity - If I am critiquing Wrestler A, I want to watch matches of his/hers that paint a larger picture. I want to see him/her wrestle a large spectrum of styles and opponents to see how adaptable he is. This would also preferably be over a decent span of years. Consistency - This would cover both those who try hard each time out vs, guys who phone it in for any variety of reasons as well as guys who have a long career, but it goes to hell after awhile.

1. Europe 2. Lucha (80's, non-pimped 90's, 00's 10's) 3. Last ten years of pimped US Indy guys outside of ROH 4. Pre-1980. 5. Caribbean

I have a list of 80's matches to add to this thread when i get home. At one point I sat and watched a ton of 80's from commercial tapes/AJW Classics I got from Dan G. It should prove to be a good supplement to Loss' recommendations.

After watching everything on the ballot for 2003, these 14 matches make it to the next phase. (Chronological Order) Ki vs Styles, Zero1 1/5/2003 Misawa vs Kobashi, NOAH 3/1/2003 Kanemoto vs AKIRA, New Japan 3/29/2003 Kobashi vs Honda, NOAH 4/13/2003 Taue vs. Nagata - NOAH 6/6/2003 Do Fixer vs M2K - Toryumon 6/29/2003 KENTAFuji vs Liger & Murahama, NOAH 7/16/2003 Akiyama vs Tenzan, New Japan 8/17/2003 KENTAFuji vs Kanemaru & Hashi, NOAH 9/12/2003 Kobashi vs Nagata, NOAH 9/12/2003 KENTAFuji vs Juvi & Marvin, NOAH 11/1/2003 Kawada vs Ogawa, Zero-One 12/14/2003 Magnum Tokyo vs Milano Collection AT, Toryumon 12/16/2003 Takaiwa & Hoshikawa vs Togo & Hidaka, Zero1 12/26/2003 It was hard to narrow down a smaller list for 2003. I'm not sure that is because of the quality or because I'm severely burnt out in watching Japanese wrestling at this point. My goal was to get my first draft for 2000-2004 by the end of June and I'd be on pace for the 12/31 deadline. As it is, I may have to resort to watching only bold and italic matches for the remaining years. Time to take a break.

4/7 was my favorite NJ v. NOAH tag. I thought the other Liger/Tanaka fell short and the Liger/Inoue tag just missed the cut. 2002 was a bit weak, I've set up my watching to select between 10-12 matches per year because I'm doing a best/per year for another project I'm doing in addition to the poll.

After watching everything on the ballot for 2002, these 10 matches make it to the next phase. (Chronological Order) Kikuchi/Kanemaru vs Liger/Inoue - NOAH 2/17/2002 Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi v. Jun Akiyama/Yuji Nagata- NOAH 2/17/2002 Genichiro Tenryu v. Satoshi Kojima- AJPW 2/24/2002 Jushin Liger/Minoru Tanaka v. Tsuyoshi Kikuchi/Y. Kanemaru- NOAH 4/7/2002 Genichiro Tenryu/Araya v. Tayo Kea/Miyamoto- AJPW 4/27/2002 Yuji Nagata v. Yoshihiro Takayama- NJPW 5/2/2002 Yuji Nagata v. Kensuke Sasaki- NJPW 6/7/2002 Genichiro Tenryu v. Satoshi Kojima- AJPW 7/17/2002 Takayama vs Misawa - NOAH 9/23/2002 Akiyama/Saito v. Kobashi/Shiga - NOAH 10/19/2002

By my count, 226 different wrestlers with the following having 10 or more matches. Some wrestlers may have changed their name unbeknownst to me or spelling may be off so margin of error is there.

After watching everything on the ballot for 2001, these 10 matches make it to the next phase. (Chronological Order) Kensuke Sasaki vs Toshiaki Kawada - NJPW 1/4/2001 Shinya Hashimoto & Yuji Nagata vs Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama - Zero-One 3/2/2001 Keiji Mutoh v. Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 4/14/2001 Mitsuharu Misawa v. Yoshihiro Takyama - NOAH 4/15/2001 Minoru Tanaka v. T. Murahama - NJPW 4/20/2001 Genichiro Tenryu v. Keiji Mutoh - AJPW 6/8/2001 Mitsuharu Misawa vs Jun Akiyama - NOAH 7/27/2001 Keiji Mutoh v. Yuji Nagata - NJPW 8/12/2001 Keiji Mutoh/Hiroshi Hase v. Jun Akiyama/Yuji Nagata - NJPW 10/8/2001 Tatsuhito Takiawa v. Naomichi Marufuji - NOAH 12/9/2001

This match isn't even on my radar for 2001, let alone my ballot. I have to say I am surprised at all the praise this is getting. Steele/Barton is such an unconvincing, underwhelming tag team that I just can't get into their so-called "domination" at the early point in the match. Technically, this is in the okay range.

After watching everything on the ballot for 2000, these 11 matches make it to the next phase. (Chronological Order) Mitsuharu Misawa v. Jun Akiyama - AJPW 2/27/2000 Kenta Kobashi v. Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 4/11/2000 Kenta Kobashi v. Takako Omori - AJPW 4/15/2000 Kenta Kobashi v. Yoshihiro Takayama - AJPW 5/26/2000 Shinjiro Ohtani/Tatsuhito Takiawa v. Koji Kanemoto/Minoru Tanaka - NJPW 6/25/2000 Toshiaki Kawada/Genichiro Tenryu v. Stan Hansen/ Taiyo Kea - AJPW 7/23/2000 Kenta Kobashi v. Jun Akiyama - NOAH 8/6/2000 Kensuke Sasaki v. Toshiaki Kawada - NJPW 10/9/2000 Toshiaki Kawada v. Genichiro Tenryu - AJPW 10/28/2000 Toshiaki Kawada/Masa Fuchi v. Yuji Nagata/Takayuki Iiuzka - NJPW 12/14/2000 Kenta Kobashi v. Jun Akiyama - NOAH 12/23/2000

I actually liked this match as I feel it is the best way Sid's matches can be digested. Destroy and occasionally sell for some hope spots.

It's funny. I watched this today and one of my first thoughts is that it was a little too one-sided. This PPV was the first one I ever ordered due to my cable company being slow in offering PPV and so this was the first PPV match I saw "live." I've always loved it, but that was my thoughts watching it today.

I remember in a past Observer (not sure which one, I think it was during a WrestleMania respective type article) he talked about giving Steamboat/Savage at WM 3 4.5 stars, but said that he must have been wrong because of the how everyone feels about it today. Just thought that was relevant since it was noted Dave says he never second guesses his ratings.

I think styles change in about a five year cycle. That doesn't mean that my personal standards of what I deem good wrestling does. Ring psychology stands the test of time while a spot fest tends to age poorly. For instance, I recently watched Fall Brawl 1996. Konnan v. Juventud and Rey Jr v. Super Calo both received >= 3.75 stars from Meltzer, but to me, they were poorly executed move, stop, move, stop spot-a-thon matches. I much preferred the lower rated DDP v. Chavo Guerrero Jr. match. Going back to my styles change comment, when I was doing my 2000's project I noticed a clear change in style from 2000-2004 to 2005-2009. That was even in ROH. If you ever get time, watch a handful of matches from WWE/WCW, etc. from say 90-94 and then 95-99. The "WWE style" evolves and changes as does the WCW style. A classic match from 1984 can certainly be compared to a classic match from 1994, and fairly. The focus just shifts from good match in the context of its time, to a good match for the ages. The latter is what defines matches that are GOAT contenders. The former is still useful if your scope is a lot smaller.

Would you call this the best wrestling match involving non-wrestler/celebrities?