WrestlingPower

I think there was a Torch Annual feature on him around that time too. But the Sabu matches and matches he had on the same shows as Sabu that got distributed widely got him notice. He looked good at the NWA tourney as well which was right before ECW & SMW. The ECW run was only a few months as Cornette could offer him more dates, and I'm assuming more total $ as a result.

I can appreciate the point behind the Gabe debate and it is pretty uncalled for to put in print telling a potential customer to F off in no uncertain terms. But in the wrestling business of the past few years, a booker who does just stay out of the way and not mess things up is very hard to find. Just the fact that he gets stuff that can work and doesn't screw things up majorly with overbooking puts him in the upper echelon of bookers these days.

Was there no documentary on the first set? I'm guessing not as I seem to remember that having a lot more matches. What's listed here looks good, especially since WWF material is de-emphasized, but upon first look it looks like a low quantity of matches.

I'm listening to the latest Adam & Mike show from F4W and they are calling Bryan Alvarez to task over his recent show with Zach Arnold. Basically, the Bryan & Zach show talked the doom & gloom of the current Japanese wrestling scene and both basically acted as if the business was so depressed over there that it wasn't worth covering. Alvarez even admitted that he had no clue who won the Champion Carnival and when Zach told him they both kind of laughed it off as if it was indicative of low business instead of an attempt to build the future. Zach also made such brilliant statements about how Hustle was the #1 promotion in Japan and that's how everyone over there sees puroresu these days. Adam & Mike retorted making some good points about why a company's bottom line should dictate the level of coverage they get. They seemed especially dumbfounded at the amount of coverage F4W gives to TNA given its financial state as compared to the entirety of puroresu. Mike Sempervive said a line something like "I'm not getting paid dividends, what the fuck do I care, the wrestling's good". So I'm bringing this up to see what folks here think. It seems like most people have followed the Meltzer & Kellers of the world in covering what their audience is more likely to be familiar with and equating what's most profitable with what's most important (and popular I guess) rather than truly covering what's newsworthy from everywhere. This really bugged me in the late 90s because if it weren't for the internet and tape trading friends, if I strictly relied on the Observer, I would have never seen lots of Japanese indies and most joshi from the period that I was every bit if not more entertained by than what the "big" companies were putting out.

I assumed the bikini model stuff was in reference to Johnny Ace.

For such a Heyman disciple the "no swearing allowed" is kind of odd but I don't mind it. I really don't think it's that big a deal, it's not like guys are dropping 10 F-bombs on the house mic. I didn't think this came off condescending at all but I did think he treaded the line between a "best booker" admitting he has areas to improve in and seeming like he can't keep it all straight.

I don't think Cary bought into this with the idea of making an investment, turning a profit, and getting out. I think he really enjoys owning a wrestling promotion. With the number of guys they book per show I'm sure it was harder and harder to turn a profit assuming their business model was still break even on the live shows and make money on the DVDs. And I'm sure the guys working in the office would like to actually get a raise every now and then. These are mostly guys in their mid-30s starting families. There's only so long you can live a college fantasy of living off peddling videos and running an indy. They are looking to pursue other revenue streams and cutting unnecessary costs. That's smart business, not necessarily a sign of trouble. And I don't think the cutting costs story being published in a couple insider sheets and being discussed on the internet is exactly "a public announcement". It's not like they sent out a press release or put it up on their website.

You do raise some good points but I would like to think (and no one outside the company knows for sure) that they are cutting corners since growth hasn't happened as much as hoped for. This would be as opposed to them actually losing money. I would hope that Gabe learned enough from Heyman and that Cary is a savvy enough business man to try to proactively maintain an even-or-better bottom line before money losses start. As for the booking I think the chase for Morishima was booked Japanese style more than anything else. There have been many instances in Japan of contenders failing in their first attempts to capture titles. And as for the tag titles booking kind of matching the HV title scene of the same challengers over & over, I think that was just a case of going with what was working. They never even intended Steen & Generico to have full time jobs when the whole thing started much less being one of the better pushed acts of the year. I do think stagnation of talent could become a minor issue especially with the number of guys that have been there for so long and now that guys are under contract. There won't be as much movement of talent so fans may grow tired of seeing the same guys in different combinations. Of the ROH shows I've been to, I'm amazed at how much of the crowd is made up of 20-somethings who I would have no clue how to appeal to. These fans theoretically haven't been around long enough to have "seen it all" and become jaded so they should have years of fandom left in them. These combined with the disenfranchised older fans like myself should continue to make up their audience for at least a few more years. They are delivering a product that their niche audience still enjoys. I see no reason why they can't sustain themselves at the level they are with smart book-keeping at least into the middle of the next decade. They may be past their peak, and I'm not going to debate that one way or the other, but there's no reason they can't stay on a plateau for years to come. So I agree with whoever said they will keep going until Gabe & Cary get tired of it. If they do away with PPVs and start putting on cards where 2-3 matches are local talents not technically in ROH, then I'll start to worry.

I think AAW is run by Danny Daniels and/or IWA-MS ring announcer Joey Eastman. I'd be curious to hear why ROH will collapse this year. Although I guess that could be a new thread altogether. I see them continuing on at their current level for years.

Very interesting thread. I haven't read Keller in years and the last few times I did I felt it was a waste of time and the only thing he had to offer were the interviews. That being said, I clearly remember reading that dig Meltzer got in at him. I honestly believe that Meltzer was thinking about the USA Today/NY Post delineation he's always mentioned. I kind of agree with that as the Torch seemed all about fluff and the PWI version of sheets even before I stopped subscribing in the mid-90s. I have heard from many folks over the years who think that Dave is arrogant or thinks he's above everyone else, but honestly I think he's just kind of in his own world (not in a Kurt Angle way) who sometimes says stuff that can be perceived as a dig. He's just constantly so busy with so many committments and thoughts running through his head that political correctness, good manners, or tactful communication take a back seat. I'm surprised no one has commented on the part where Wade wrote about the Torch being an essential secondary source to the Observer in writing a history of wrestling. While I don't have much knowledge about this reporting war that happened over the Fusient thing, I think he is overestimating himself a lot here. Unless someone needed specific details about TV show formats and results, I can't see how the Torch would be that valuable at all. It also bugs me how Keller and various other online reporters always tend to reference scooping each other. I do appreciate Meltzer sitting back and reporting the story correctly and thoroughly and not worrying about beating others to the punch. Unfortunately in this internet age and tabloid TV age, I think that approach is sadly considered as outdated as the Observer's layout. Also interesting that Keller is so heavily pushing a site that I can forsee massively hurting his business.

I've been thinking they need to cut back for a while just to narrow the focus on the product, regardless of financials. I bet they have more people on a show than a WWF house show these days. With all the factions, several of which have one or two seconds at ringside that don't even wrestle, there's lots of people drawing a check off a live event. I think people are overreacting a bit though, there probably won't be more than a couple guys cut completely, it sounds like they are just rotating bookings around with some of the under & mid-card guys. I still think the PPVs are a good idea as long as they aren't putting up too much money to have them air. I don't think it will increase the audience base very much, and it obviously hasn't, but I think it should be somewhat successful at getting more money out of those that already follow the product at some level. I like the convenience of being able to order a somewhat up-to-date show right on my own TV. I know in my case at least I only buy 3-4 DVDs directly from them each year so adding 6 PPVs to the mix is more than doubling the $ they would normally get from me.

I think the writing was on the wall when Hammer left that position. Nothing they do would really get people to want to watch their C-show. It still amazes me that in 2008 they are treating backstage wrestling stuff as FBI-level secrets to the point people's phones and computers are monitored. I guess Lagana was a sign that they are serious. It's not like most of the writers aren't interchangeable since Steph, HHH, and maybe Hayes have all the power.

Would like access to trade and shill, projects and lists PM'd you. -- Loss, 01/09

I think it's just assumed that Vince's hatred of 80s wrestling means NWA. Just off the top of my head in recent years he hasn't let Flair cut his normal promos due to feeling the style is passe, didn't want Kennedy using the last name Anderson because it reminded him too much of 80s wrestling, doesn't like the announcers using the term "wrestling", had that period where they couldn't call the belts "belts" or "straps", etc.

I just did the math based on Alvarez being 32. I'm not positive when he started F4W but I think it was around 95. It was an offspring of whatever newsletter he did for his YWF backyard fed. I'm thinking Alvarez may not have even seen the 1989 while it was going on. He said he first saw wrestling around the time of that Hogan/Warrior vs. Earthquake/Dino Bravo SNME. That was like 1990 right?

That is a TOTALLY ridiculous statement by Alvarez, all the different parts of it brought up here. I remember reading that, shaking my head, and moving on with life. You have to remember Alvarez started his sheet, in what, 1995 or so, when he was about 20 years old. He certainly wasn't then and still doesn't seem to have much interest in watching wrestling from all over the world at all its different levels. I think his statement was akin to a teenager making comments on the internet based on his limited frame of reference. If he was following this stuff closely when it happened in the early 90s he would know how laughable that statement is. Regarding the Michaels-specific comments, and I don't watch much current wrestling, and I am sure Michaels is wrestling at a great level given his age, physical condition, quality of opponents, etc. but you cannot tell me any of his stuff matches up to the late 90s during the Bret era. I'm sure Michaels himself would be insulted if someone suggested to him that at 40+, broken down, and with mostly mediocre opponents that this year was the best year of his career.