Kronos

I don't have anything substantive to add here. But this line totally cracked me up! Trolling old threads, and I found this comment by SLL. I was about to write something on how it made me laugh -- until I scrolled down a few posts and found my response from two years back. . .

MMA pretty much has to do it because Dana's big stars can only fight 2-4 times a year; physically, it's just not advisable at that level to do more. So you sprinkle each show with a big fight or two, and then you almost always have a marquee matchup for each show -- and they are always different. I like it in concept for rasslin. Of course, I wonder how that would work. Historically, when guys are in a program, they work on several PPVs in a row - think Cena/Orton last year or Eddy/JBL 2004 or just about any feud in the PPV era. I think the real issue is too much exposure on free tv. I don't need to buy the PPV if I can see Edge and Jericho go all out for 20 minutes on SD. You and I know that isn't true, as the best guys tend to up their game on PPV. But it's easy to see why the typical fan might feel that way. It's just not special if we see it on TV every week (Christian and Regal had arguable better matches on ECW and SS than they had on PPV, for example, and they certainly had more matches). Let the lower and midcarders work week in and week out - superstars to me proves it's an entertaining model. Bring back the Wimpie for the big stars, and let them build their feuds with promos and interviews and the occasional match. Look at what it did for Batista and Cena, for example.

I kind of chuckled when I just realized that Punk and Rey rassled at Extreme Rules LAST YEAR, too. Eh, well, it happens. Maybe they'll put on a slobberknocker -- they certainly hinted at it for Mania.

Here's something random: I was watching the first Impact yesterday on TNA's video vault service, and they showed a clip from the first PPV -- Toby Keith got involved in the match, and he ended up giving Jarrett a vertical suplex. Now, I know most of the work was probably done by JJ, but Keith still had to hoist him up, hold him there without stumbling (which lots of pro wrestlers struggle to do properly), and then throw him over. YMMV about Keith's music or politics, but that was a damned good wrestling move for a non-worker to throw.

Good thinking there. I wouldn't be opposed to that kind of role for him. It also fits what I was saying, a guy who can put over other guys without losing his face heat.

"You talk about Impact! Impact heard round the world. Impact heard in 48 hundred million . . .uhm. . .countries around the world!" -- Dusty Rhoads, in the ring with Tenay, the very first TNA Impact show

Hey, after seeing and really, really enjoying fat old Demolition on a Chikara show, anything's possible.

I was just thinking about some of this stuff last night when I watched Superstars, as well as reading some of JR's comments about people being impatient or critical with new stars. MVP and Carlito main evented, and it solidified for me why MVP should never go above midcard. Can he wrestle? Of course. Do fans like him? Sure. But he's just missing that something - that star power that pushes one over the edge. and makes you really care what he does He's stuck at U.S. level because that's all he deserves. It's okay - someone has to put on decent midcard matches. Hardy on SD was another example. Matt has done work with Drew two weeks in a row now. Crowds LOVE Matt, but he's just not quite main event calbre to me - there's something about him that does not scream SUPERSTAR. However, he can give some strong support to young guys coming up. Look at the program he had with Swagger - it basically MADE Jack, back in late 2008 (and in some ways, Matt helped to reignite Henry's career during that same era). It actually looks like it might be working to help make Drew Mac, too. I was laughing at how ridiculously lame Drew was at Mania, and I certainly never enjoyed him at all before. Yet somehow, in these last two weeks of SD, he's starting ever so slightly to become intriguing. I guess this is more of a ramble than anything else. But whatever. . .

By the way, Bob, I did not mean anything negative by using your comment to start the thread. I thought it would make for an interesting conversation and allow me to learn a little something -- success on all fronts.

Were they calling themselves The Kliq onscreen in 1995?

Hey, I have rabbit ears. Picking up a digital signal on my 720p HDTV. LOL

I just have to laugh. Not only did ROH replace their serviceable but could-be-better website with a horrible one, but their forums have been down forever. What are the ROHBots doing? Where are they all posting?

That Face/Heel schematic is shocking. There's absolutely no main event level talent on the heel side apart from Yoko (who was already on the decline, healthwise), Sid (arguably), and Owen (arguably). Lawler, of course, but surely he wasn't working too hard by 95. Jarrett arguably became main event quality but wasn't in 95. Plus, there's a chunk of guys on the Face side (obviously Nash, Hall, and Waltman, at least) who made it big as heels. What a mess. No wonder it was all so fucked up. EDIT: I third (or fourth or whatever) the wish to see Backlund vs Nash, even in 1995.

@BK You're saying, basically, that he was just boring or poorly-booked? Did he try, or did he come across as lazy?

I was gonna respond to this comment in the HBK thread, but I decided not to hijack. 1995 WWF is a particularly weak period for me, knowledge-wise, so I don't know. But I hear this comment made all the time. I liked the matches Nash had with Bret, and he had a very good mania match with Taker (that was in 96, though?). What was it that made him so hated, onscreen? Did he just squash the feck out of everyone? The guy has charisma, as proven by his WCW and TNA runs, but was he just too green on the mic? What are people thinking happened?

Is this the right match that got Nash a lot of publicity for being able to work with someone very different? Rey vs Nash, Nitro I am thinking it must be because of how much offense Rey actually gets in this 4 min match: How many matches did they actually work together? Anyway, I like Nash. And this one is actually a lot of fun, despite being over in a snap. . .

The irony is that the numbers don't even really mean as much as they used to. What I mean is not that they don't show the official business. I mean that in today's streaming world, you could be watching both shows at once and yet neither of them get credit. So there's absolutely no way to tell who's really watching. That said, what I saw [via streaming] didn't make me want to buy the PPV, while RAW [also via streaming] made me even more exciting about buying Mania, so. . .

I was looking up this thread for something else, and I was reminded that we had a conversation here about Danielson and his future as an indyriffic guy vs being in the 'E. Thought I would zombie it just for old times' sake, because it's kinda relevant now.

Apparently, not even the porntastic backstage whipping of Angel Williams was enough to put asses in the proverbial seats - people tuned off before the match following the segment. I am not even sure what I have seen lately qualifies as so bad it's good. Maybe 10 years from now, we'll watch clips and enjoy it ironically -- just like we do WCW 99-2000.

truthfully, I opened this thread in the wrong section - the other thread was opened later but in the right place. It is more accurate.

I might have liked more matches, but I am pleased to see the IYH: Canadian Stampede 10-man here. I think it was on the Pillman set, IIRC, but it's nice to see it included on a recent one. And old school Stampede Wrestling footage is always a good thing. Also just realized: We're getting a Hart Dynasty match from SD! -- awesome. I am always pleased when the TV matches get included on DVD (as opposed to the PPV matches, which are easy to get ahold of by purchase or rental).

The Hart family has long served as Canada’s first family of Sports Entertainment, from patriarch Stu and his Stampede Wrestling and Dungeon, a training site that has produced multiple Hall of Famers, though sons Bret, Owen, on to a new generation of WWE Superstars, The Hart Dynasty. But the family’s journey was never a smooth one, as their accomplishments were often punctuated with devastating tragedies and loss. Now for the first time ever, fans can learn the entire story in Hart & Soul: The Hart Family Anthology. A brand new documentary chronicling more than 5 decades of family lineage is filled with never-before-seen Hart family interviews and supplemented with a dozen matches featuring Bret, Owen, Keith, Bruce, The British Bulldog, The Dynamite Kid, Jim “The Anvil” Neidhart, The Hart Dynasty, and more! Stu Hart Falling in Love The Promoter Hart House Riches to Rags All in the Family Hart Foundation / British Bulldogs Stampede Sold Dean International Spotlight Family Feud Canada’s Family Struggles Within Family Tragedy Third Generation Reflections Special Features • Stu the Athlete • Helen’s Car Accident • Terrible Ted the Wrestling Bear • A Letter from Dean • Stu vs. The Tiger • A Hart Family Thanksgiving – 1987 • Helen Throws in the Towel • Owen the Prankster • Chris Jericho’s Flight with Owen • The Uninvited Guest • Bret “Hit Man” Hart Returns to WWE • Post-Raw Celebration (Raw – January 4, 2010) 6-Man Tag Team Match Keith Hart, Bruce Hart & Bret Hart vs. The Kiwis & Dynamite Kid Stampede Wrestling – May 1979 Stampede Arrives in WWE World Tag Team Championship Match Hart Foundation vs. British Bulldogs Boston Garden – November 1, 1986 An Unforgettable Match Intercontinental Championship Match Bret “Hit Man” Hart vs. British Bulldog SummerSlam – August 29, 1992 The Hart Family in a WWE Ring Family Feud Match Bret “Hit Man” Hart, Owen Hart, Bruce Hart & Keith Hart vs. Shawn Michaels & His Knights Survivor Series – November 24, 1993 Brothers vs. Brothers Bret “Hit Man” Hart & Owen Hart vs. Rick Steiner & Scott Steiner Florence, SC – January 11, 1994 Ripped Apart at the Seams World Tag Team Championship Match Bret “Hit Man” Hart & Owen Hart vs. The Quebecers Royal Rumble – January 22, 1994 Steel Cage Match for the WWE Championship Bret “Hit Man” Hart vs. Owen Hart SummerSlam – August 29, 1994 The Hart Family Settles It in the Ring Bret “Hit Man” Hart & British Bulldog vs. Owen Hart & Jim “The Anvil” Neidhart Raw – November 7, 1994 Decorated in Gold European Championship Match Owen Hart vs. British Bulldog Raw – March 3, 1997 Front and Center 10-Man Tag Team Match Bret “Hit Man” Hart, Owen Hart, British Bulldog, Jim “The Anvil” Neidhart & Brian Pillman vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Goldust & Legion of Doom In Your House: Canadian Stampede July 6, 1997 Border Wars 6-Man Tag Team Flag Match Bret “Hit Man” Hart, Owen Hart & British Bulldog vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Undertaker & Dude Love Raw – July 21, 1997 Passing the Torch WWE Unified Tag Team Championship Match The Hart Dynasty vs. D-Generation X SmackDown – December 25, 2009 The Best is Yet to Come

Here's the match-listing: January Highlights Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena - January 12 The Birth of Legacy: Ted DiBiase & Cody Rhodes Attack Sim Snuka & Manu - January 12 No Disqualification match for the Intercontinental Championship CM Punk vs. William Regal - January 19 Randy Orton Assaults Mr. McMahon - January 19 February Highlights Randy Orton Attacks Shane and Stephanie - February 16 March Highlights Randy Orton Selects His WrestleMania Opponent - March 2 Shawn Michaels & Undertaker - March 9 Shawn Michaels visits the graveyard - March 23 Santino Marella vs. Mickie James - March 23 Michael Cole & Jerry "The King" Lawler April Highlights Ten-Man WrestleMania All-Star Showcase - April 6 Chris Jericho vs. John Cena from London England - April 20 Randy Orton vs. MVP - April 27 May Highlights Santino Makes Fun of Chavo & Vickie - May 4 "Denver Debacle": Raw Moves to the Staples Center - May 25 DISC TWO June Highlights Josh Mathews interviews MVP and Kofi Kingston United States Championship Match MVP vs. Kofi Kingston - June 1 The Miz - Five... John Cena - Zero Legacy Attacks Batista - June 8 Fatal Four Way Match for the WWE Championship Randy Orton vs. Triple H vs. John Cena vs. Big Show - June 15 Mr. McMahon Sells Raw to Donald Trump - June 15 Last Man Standing Match for the WWE Championship Triple H vs. Randy Orton - June 22 Mr. McMahon's Limo Breaks Down - June 22 Mr. McMahon Buys Raw Back form Donald Trump - June 22 3-on-1 Gauntlet match Randy Orton vs. Evan Bourne, Jack Swagger & Mark Henry - June 29 Raw Celebrity Guest Hosts Michael Cole & Jerry "The King" Lawler July Highlights Randy Orton vs. Ted DiBiase - July 6 Big Show Faces Off with Shaq - July 27 August Highlights Fatal Four Way Divas Match Kelly Kelly vs. Alicia Fox vs. Gail Kim vs. Beth Pheonix - August 10 I Know What You're Going to Do This Summer - August 17 DX Returns - August 17 DX Celebrates Mr. McMahon's Birthday in Las Vegas - August 24 Chris Jericho vs. MVP - August 31 Fatal Four Way Match for the United States Championship Kofi Kingston vs. The Miz vs. Jack Swagger vs. Carlito - August 31 DISC THREE September Highlights The Price is Raw Body Slam Contest Big Show vs. Mark Henry - September 7 Batista Returns, Orton Beware - September 14 No Holds Barred Match Batista vs. Randy Orton - September 14 October Highlights D-Generation X vs. Chris Jericho & Big Show - October 5 John Cena vs. Triple H - October 19 Chris Jericho vs. Kofi Kingston - October 26 November Highlights Chavo Guerrero vs. Santino Marella - November 16 Randy Orton & Kofi Kingston Wage War at Madison Square Garden - November 16 Triple Threat Tag Team Match D-Generation X vs. Jeri-Show vs. John Cena & Undertaker - November 16 John Cena vs. CM Punk - November 23 December Highlights TLC Championship Showdown - December 7 Superstar of the Year Match John Cena vs. Randy Orton - December 14 2009 Raw Recap

Last night, I started watching the Best of Raw 2009 set. Just made it about 90 min or so, but I can already tell that this is the way to watch RAW. There's so much garbage in a single episode that over the span of a year, it becomes unbearable. The set is divided by month. Each month gets a highlight reel, and then they show a match or two combined with some segments (not every month gets a match, but most of them do). So the January bit had HBK/Cena and the final Punk/Regal where Punk wins the IC belt [i had forgotten how tiny little Lailer has to almost run to keep up with Regal's steps during their entrance]. Then it had the very long segment that was Jericho having to apologize to Steph and the crowd, and then Randy punting Vince - that anger angle was so bad. It also had Cody and Ted turning on Manu/Sim and joining Randy. That's a busy January - we weren't even to the Rumble yet. There's about 10-12 matches, I figure - I don't have the list in front of me. I am interested in seeing the 10-man tag again from right after Mania where Steamboat got his sendoff. I remember that one being cool, and I am glad it's on here. Plus, there's a Cena/Jericho match from London in April that I never saw -- in fact, most of the matches will be new to me I think. That's how much I tend to avoid RAW. I already feel like it was $25 well-spent, and I am not finished with the first disc yet. From time to time, I have taken the project of collecting each week's shows to save for later. At one point, I was even getting them once a month from a tape trader. Then I discovered that I never ever go back to them - if there's a specific highly-pimped match I want to see from the past year, it's usually found on youtube or dailymotion with a bit of effort. So a set like this one is ideal. Wish we had one for SD. . . EDIT: Actually, there's over 20 matches, if you count Mickie vs Santino. Terrific - way more than I expected.

I am not really emotionally attached to either guy, though both have done work in the past that I really enjoyed. I do agree about being involved in a match -- and maybe if I had been around a lot of ROH in 2009 and seen the rise of the Wolves or whatever, I might have been a lot more heavily invested. Like I said, it was a skillfully put together match. Given how much love for it is out there, I might should watch it again. Maybe I was just tired or OD'd on rasslin or something. Stranger things have happened.