Kronos

No worries about rambling. It's one of the things I like about this forum. It's a good point about TNA -- amongst the dedicated rasslin fans in forums I frequent like wrestlingclassics, DVDVR, and here -- there's not a lot of substantive discussion going on. No one seems to be watching much. I started a spoiler thread on Lockdown on wrestlingclassics, and I was just about the only one posting during the live show. Compare that to Mania, where we had quite a few live "bloggers" on the same forum. I am constantly seeing comments like "I haven't watched TNA in a year" and such. So you may be well correct there. People have lost interest. You can't very well discuss the future of this angle or that angle if they're going to be changing it tomorrow. Here's an example: On Impact this week will be a ladder match for #1 women's contender between Sojo Bolt and taylor Wilde. Taylor is believable, but Bolt is out of the blue. And why a ladder match? There's no reason for it. Maybe in 2000, people tuned in to WCW to see the train wreck. I know I feel that way when I watch Nitro eps. But TNA is not that compelling. It's just annoying. I continue to watch it because I like some of the characters and even some of the angles, but many people don't watch it. So what's to discuss? I personally find the discussions of classic wrestling to be the most compelling. Things like the 80's sets -- I am really hoping to get in on NJPW and Texas since I missed Memphis and Watts. That's fascinating and substantive. I remember reading page after page of analysis of the WWF set on TOA -- it was page-turning, stay up until 3am reading. You are absolutely correct that the current products don't generate that kind of discussion; compare to the DVDVR from 1996 I originally referenced, where Phil and Dean and co (were you in that group, John?) were discussing ECW and Nitro matches at length. Maybe it's because it's all new to me, but that older stuff is just more fascinating to discuss. . .

I am probably just feeling a false nostalgia for a period I missed. Watching wrestling and discussing it seemed so exciting back then, from what I can tell. I can easily see all that stuff now -- well, damned Worldwide 2000 seems invisible -- but it's not the same as when I had no idea what would happen next. It's new to me, but I have heard so much about it when I finally get around to watching that it takes some of the shine away. Not much of the shine. . . And you guys were discussing it then, in a much more underground kind of way. Tape trading meant you had to know someone who knew someone. Now, you just sign up on a trading forum and keep your nose clean, and you're in. Or join PWT. Or XWN. And get all the free footage you can eat, if you don't mind avi How can you say there was more product then? Do you mean it would be like TNA having as many shows as Vince has, as well as ROH being on a more mainstream channel? Because we have a hell of a lot of wrestling right now on TV alone -- 6 hrs from Vince, 2 from TNA, 1 from ROH every week (although I am done watching ROH tv ZZZZZZZZZZZZ). And of course, that doesn't count PPV.

This is an interesting point. These days, would you say that the "average" fan is that teen boy who goes to RAW live and comes home and posts like this on certain, less high-brow forums ( ): OMG, CENA SUX! WTF? CENA RULZ! YOU SUCK! And the like? Hehe, I can't even fathom the idea of a wrestling fan these days who doesn't like it enough to get involved in some kind of community -- which usually means forums, unless they happen to know a bunch of friends who watch it with them. When I lived in LA, I went to a couple of PWG shows and made some friends. But I met them through. . .wait for it. . .PWG's forums. To come back to the topic -- in this period, is the "average wrestling fan" a myth?

That's just what I was going to say in response to Will's point, which makes more sense than mine. I discovered tape trading about a year ago (I know, I am a lightweight ). And I am currently collecting what and when I can. But these days, Dailymotion and Youtube make it almost -- but by no means completely -- unnecessary to collect DVDs just to see the bigger matches (and many rare ones). And with sites like vodpod, you can consolidate them all into an easily searchable private or public database. It is a good time to be a wrestling fan from this point of view, especially if your tastes are so broad that they shift by the day.

**does a little jig** And John, I agree with your : / because while that kind of statement pisses me off to no end no matter what kind of wrestling is being discussed, it's not a myth. More of a contentious statement. Perhaps we should have a thread about it. "Make Contentious Statements About Wrestling" . . .

Ah-ha! So I was way off. LOL Thanks, guys for clearing it up. I wasn't watching wrestling in the 90's, so it seems like a million years ago -- and a sort of IWC golden age.

This quote comes from DVDVR #3 -- I quote it not to raise any discussion about Benoit but more to emphasize the amusing line about evolving so quickly. It cracked me up. When did these reviews begin? I am guessing 1998 or so. . .

Oh it certainly wasn't a knock (and I have no idea if it was Will so please don't quote me on that!). I took the comment as a positive meaning that Memphis has been maligned in shoots with various wrestlers as being cartoony and all but there's a lot of just regular "pro wrestling" in the promotion and some great stuff that any wrestling fan could enjoy. Even Meltzer, in the 1983 WON year ender, made an analogy with Memphis and "normal" pro wrestling to indoor soccer and soccer. He said that indoor soccer wasn't really soccer but he liked it better than regular soccer and that was how he looked at Memphis. I remember that line, too, and I read it to mean that that period has something for everyone. So, if you like wrestling, you'll find something to like here. That said, one of my biggest peeves in wrestling is the person who makes (and means) such a sweeping statement. Taste is taste, ultimately. If you can discuss what you like and why in an intelligent and respectful manner, then it's all good.

Okay, so this may be one of the most inciteful things about rasslin that I have ever read on the interweb (and it makes sense it would be here at PWO). SLL -- I"m using it as a sig on another forum! Seriously, though, it reminds me of the movie ROLE MODELS, which I was just watching. If you haven't seen it, get to a DVD store right away. In the film, there's a major plot about a kid who's really into live action medieval roleplaying. This world has its own rules and language and all-around culture. Outisders find it not a little ridiculous, but the participants take it very seriously. And I think that as wrestling fans, we have to be willing to accept the same thing. My brother, who watches a lot of MMA, will often ask questions about why wrestlers do this or that when I am watching it. I explain the context or the meaning of a particular move or promo because when I am watching, I accept that a piledriver really hurts and a superplex really hurts. . .

That's funny because I participated heavily in just such a thread on wrestlingclassics last night, and it was great fun. People on that forum don't seem to mind a "live" spoilers thread based on the feedback that happens after the shows. Steamboat was the man last night, no question. And Taker/HBK was up there with the all-time greats.

I don't feel bad for him. He might get buried on another show, either out of overcrowding or spite. This way, he gets to be a focus (hopefully). And for Swagger, it would be a good opportunity to learn better promo skills. I mean, look at the difference between them in that opener when Xian slams him for being lispy -- Swagger was nowhere near that mic level.

For some reason, my setup has changed so that I only see the post I am viewing. The rest of them in the thread are at the bottom in link form instead of expanded. I can't figure out how to change it back. Is it possible to change the settings so that it shows all comments in a thread as one expanded forum view, like it always has before? Or is this a permanent new setup for the PWO board? Thanks! EDIT: NEVER MIND, I FIGURED IT OUT.

Totally random, but I was watching the Dusty Secrets of the Ring shoot, and he is talking about Samuel Clemens. He says something like, "I'll bet you don't even know who Samuel Clemens is, do you? It's Mark Twain! No wonder ROH isn't drawing any money, Gabe. . ." Awesome.

Hey, Will, is this a DVDVR 80's set? I have never seen mention of it, so maybe it doesn't exist. If it does, who has it? Bix?

I liked the line from the LOW show -- which he may have repeated in his shoot, but 12 hours is a lot for me to recall: "Scott Hall's claim to fame is that he was there the night Shawn Michaels wrestled a ladder."

Ah, yes, Marisa Marisa Marisa. Not a bad little 40-something, is she? I wish those tattoos were real. . . Okay, back to the substantive discussion. . .

Didn't Foley run his barbed wire across Lita's face at the mania match with Edge? Not too bloody, but it was kinda vicious. I am surprised she agreed. Back in April, PWG's 1.21 Gigawatts ended with Candace LaRae taking a nasty beating from Tornado, LuFisto, and Claudio, while a duct-taped-to-the-ropes Hero was forced to watch. (It was a fantastic segment, actually, and it cemented my belief in Hero's talent as an actor.) Anyway, she ended up almost as bloody as that Terri pic -- there was a fairly shocking photo of her back on the PWG forums, but I am unmotivated to look it up right now. . .

Has this ever happened to you? My brother -- who is not a rasslin fan -- and I have been watching a lot of MMA lately. I am loving the sport, which is a fairly new discovery for me. Anyway, yesterday, we watched UFC 3 and 4. Then, because I wanted him to see it, we watched Joe v Kobashi followed by Danielson v Storm because these are my two favorite ROH matches -- we were watching the Koch ROH comp). Then, we went back to MMA, with Pride Shockwave 05. About half way through the Pride show, we both kind of realized that adding some long (and awesome) wrestling matches between MMA really jacked with our heads. I kept expecting the MMA guys to get out of submissions with an insugiri (sp?) or for them to pause for a moment after doing some gorgeous grappling to "catch their breath" and staredown, so the crowd can cheer. That kind of thing. I even laughed about one of the Pride announcers breaking kayfabe by talking about how a particular victory carried a built-in storyline because the particular fighters understood it was about entertainment and not just fighting. (of course, I then got the joy of explaining "kayfabe" to my brother) Anyway, we have both agreed that MMA has learned to walk that illusive line between Vince and boxing, able to take the best of both worlds in a lot of ways. I love both shows -- MMA and rasslin -- but I would suggest not mixing them on the same day if you don't want your head to explode. . .

Your sig quote is less amusing now than even a year ago for me, SLL. I think Henry is actually doing good work these days. He was solid on both Unforgiven and No Mercy. I never, ever would have imagined I would be saying such a thing. . .

Say, isn't NWE the fed that brought back Warrior?

Since this thread had been recently revived, I didn't even notice at first that most of the posts were 20 months old. But I read it with interest. I think that TNA has done some good stuff in the intervening time (BFG 07 was a fantastic show, for example). They've used Booker in a decent manner, and they got me to enjoy Steiner. Nash has continued to be amusing. And the AJ/Angle feud about Karen was entertaining for a little while. Most importantly, they have helped to create a believable women's division, with quality qrestling given almost enough time -- when was the last time WWE ever has 2 women's matches on a PPV, with both of them being decent? However, they have continued to let storylines fizzle. They have run silly gimmicks, like Sharkboy, that get old quickly. (Still, I like Machismo and Curryman.) They have let Angle be their everything, to the point of making us viewers sick of one of the best the business has seen. And now they've let Jarrett around again. . . Late 2007 and early 2008 were some good years for the promotion, at least on PPV -- iMPACT was still hit or miss. So it might not be the worst ever compared to 2006.

Just watched Unforgiven. Lot to like, good bit to hate. But I have only one thing to say: F**k HHH. EDIT: I actually have one other thing to mention. Since when does Batista bust out the figure-4? It wasn't beautifully done, but it was definitely fun to see. Is that something he uses regularly now?