El-P

Isn't Jericho way past his prime anyway now ? If that if held against him, what about Flair past 92 ? (leaves the room quietly)

After your Hogan posts that is hilarious. Not really. The idea that Hogan all of sudden is a great worker is a total product of Post-Benoit-Workrate-Guilt. Jericho was considered a really good worker for most of his career, with ups and downs. The "Jericho sucks" stuff just comes from nowhere. And it's not like I'm a big fan. He ranked in 2006, so thinking he's great is not entirely new. Not entirely new, but equally asinine, especially when he gained almost ten spots.

After your Hogan posts that is hilarious. Not really. The idea that Hogan all of sudden is a great worker is a total product of Post-Benoit-Workrate-Guilt. Jericho was considered a really good worker for most of his career, with ups and downs. The "Jericho sucks" stuff just comes from nowhere. And it's not like I'm a big fan.

Avalon. Not talking about the early 70's stuff of course.

The rant for funny indeed. First time I heard "cunty man". However I stopped when Cornette talked about LU was a disgrace to pro-wrestling. I really like Corny, but he's so off-base on this. Well, and calling Sami Zayn the "ginger muslim" on the post Mania show just didn't seat well with me.

The hate on Jericho is downright comical at this point. He was #77 on my list.

Hogan represents the wholesome, moralistic, respectable facade of the 80s. Flair represents the sleazy, money hungry, decadent truth. Hogan represents the foreign policy and the jingoism, Flair represents the Yuppie culture. Hogan is Rocky IV. Flair is Wall Street. Hogan is Foreigner. Flair is Roxy Music.

Say how you really feel about Hogan, Parv.

I'll pass this time since I talked about "dumb american kids", but I usually don't appreciate essentialization. I guess you're refering to the fact Jerry Lewis was take seriously by the movie critics here. Well, as it should. Although I never understood why Jude Appatow was revered though. Anyway. Hey, don't give me too much shit about Hogan. I said before that his work later on in WCW was much better than Flair's.

No. it's been well established that Hogan kayfabe character was an asshole mistreating his friends and a whiny egomaniac bitch. There's a whole thread about this. Plus he was cheating his ass off and using shitty heel tactics (like scratching his opponent's back) despite being a colossus. It was so easy to agree with Jesse Ventura on color when he was pointing out how awful Hogan really was.

All joking aside (although I was really not), of course Hogan had incredible presence and charisma, it seems idiotic to even have to point it out. He was a huge star in Japan before the WWF. I did think the Warrior was just as over at Mania 8 though.

Hogan #75 is a complete joke. Worst pendulum effect symptom thus far. He was a decent worker at best. The Hulk-up no-selling is the most idiotic and annoying thing ever. His offense looked like shit (scratching the back of his opponent) and he was a terrible babyface. Plus, I'll say, as a pro-wrestling fan who never cared about Hogan, that most of his 80's fans were stupid american kids blinded by jingoism and triomphant Reaganian model of a society where heroes were steroid induced brain-deads fighting against "evil" foreigners while waving the flag in one hand and the bible in the other. The concept of Hulk Hogan is horrendous, that's why he was so perfect as Hollywood Hogan, because it was him being much closer to the actual truth. Fuck Terry Bolea, I didn't became a fan because of him. I was a Warrior & Savage fan.

Hiroshi Hase was my #42. Anyone who went through New Japan in the 90's understands.

Do you really think so ? I mean, Tito is a WWF guy. It's not like all the major Tito stuff wasn't available for ever. Yes. Who was talking about the Valentine series in 2006? Or the Savage series? Smarkschoice did their poll on WWF matches, and jdw did his tOA series walking through 80s WWF matches. Both contributed to Tito's higher profile. You're right.

Do you really think so ? I mean, Tito is a WWF guy. It's not like all the major Tito stuff wasn't available for ever.

And quite frankly, it is turning into a sad joke.

Rude just missed my top 100. He got dropped in favor of Onita and a bunch of others. I really love his peak,but then again, it's too short to warrant a spot, especially since he fell off a cliff before having to retire. I'm kinda surprised he gets higher than in 2006, but then again, conservative list, the mainstream US guys will do better this time around.

I had Terry Gordy at #75. Still the best Freebird by a wide margin, although Gordy was clearly not at his best yet and facing crappy opposition in Texas. Terrific worker in Japan and in Mid-South. He's above Doc, as he should. Did not rate the Dynamite Kid this time around. Too short of a peak, not as good as the guys emulating him later on (Benoit, Liger). It's not a travesty that he's making the top 100 though.

I like Tito Santana a lot. But him making the top 100 is exactly what I refered to when I said this Top 100 was conservative. Tito is the ultimate formula worker, his idea of a pro-wrestling match is the most basic who can think of. The fact he was so good at it helps a lot, and he's got two excellent feuds in the 80's, Savage & Valentine. Some of the best fire comebacks who can find. Still, he's not a top 100 guy to me, although I can understand why people voted for him (contrary to guys like Piper, Dusty or Hogan for instance). He's also the first guy I saw that was involved in a memorable match, the IC tournament final against Perfect.

Exactly. To give you an exemple, the idea of "let's all watch the same stuff at the same time together so we can have a sense of community" is something I'm actively running away from. I've always been like that, about everything.

That's not what I mean at all by that, I've said many times that this board is probably the best and most fun I've been involved with. It's just that I have a loner mentality.

Because this is the best pro-wrestling board around and I kinda made it my home since I left Smarkchoice sometime in the late 00's (probably following some people I liked, much like when I left Spider Twist for SC a few years before). But that doesn't mean I feel concerned by the constant reference to the DVDVR sets like their results were some kind of gospel or representative of anything to me, for instance.

I think it's important to recognise that lots of people here did care about them, and that they have really helped to form our views on a lot of guys. As well as brought us together as fans. The 90s Yearbooks were too, but I personally missed the boat on them cos I couldn't keep pace. I realise you've been around since the 1990s, and see recent developments either as old hat or trifling matters, but you don't seem to recognise or respect the current make-up of the community. I couldn't care less. I've never been a part of the DVDVR crowd anyway, although I always enjoyed a bunch of them (loved DEAN since the very early DVDVRs). I never cared about the results of these project and it never meant shit to me as far as creating new opinions and consensus. It was always a niche of a niche of a niche. Don't get me wrong, I think those project were terrific in themselves (as are the Yearbooks), but I never needed them to make my own opinions. I'd rather watch shitloads of TV simply because the selection of matches was subjective to begin with. I'm a Marxist from the Groucho type, I don't want to be part of a club that would have me as a member anyway. So there.

With the DVDR 1980s sets coming out during the 10 years after 2006, there was ALWAYS going to be an increase in Flair discussion. Not everyone watched or cared about the fucking DVDVR 80's set either. Flair is the most boring great wrestler at this point. Even talking about Misawa or Toyota seems fresh in comparison. Waiting for Arn to drop BTW, the later the better.

Can we save the fucking Ric Flair discussion for when he shows up ? Seriously now, the fact Flair got the most discussion time for this GWE overall really tarnished the fun of the whole thing. No wonder the lucha/joshi/european/shootsyle guys took a hit if the biggest topic is freaking Ric Flair in 2016. Whatever...