El-P

Goldust is as much a mainstream US guy as Michaels. (funny how some people just don't understand something super simple) Holy shit, those two pics of Michaels. I'm amazed that Michaels actually gained spots since last time. For all the criticism he gets around here, most of it valid, he still managed to win more than ten spots. I guess all because of a bunch of self-conscious epics at Mania against Cena & Taker. Post 2002 Michaels seems to be some of the most divisive body of work ever, either you love it, either you hate it. Haven't seen all of it, although quite a bit of the big matches, and although I do think there's some to love, much of it isn't worthy of the high praise it gets. Do we need to mention again that the "Sorry, I love you" match with Flair is one of the most ridiculous overacted melodramamatch ever, and a staple of awful modern WWE manufactured "Mania Moments" ? Well, I had Micheals at #78.

Ah, the infamous "Robert Gibson was actually playing Ricky Morton" argument. That was not his most glorious hour to say the least.

Settle down a bit, Goc. Don't be so fucking sensitive, it's not about you at all, ya know. I never said people didn't watch new footage, I never said all the US mainstream guys were awful either (although guys like Hogan/Piper/Dusty have no business making a Top 100 workers ever considering who's left behind). I said that US mainstream was gaining a lot of spots, and that tons of great wrestlers weren't represented or were losing spots because of this, and that it was a sign of a more conservative list than in 2006 which was more all over the place in term of styles. Anyway, I had Rocky Morton at #32 (the closest from the actual result so far !). Apart from the classic matches in the 80's, it's really the past his prime years that made me vote for him that high. Watching him in WCW looking better than 90% of the roster, turning into an effective dick heel in an undercard stable that Loss loves so much. And the again in SMW, where he carried so much feuds by his great promos and delivering in the ring to boot (as opposed to say, Jake the Snake), even making Unabomb watchable. Dustin was my #24. Great peak in WCW, just a natural talent (pun intended). Going through WCW TV, it was so obvious how good this guy was and how fucked he got by Flair hanging on to his spot and Hogan showing up. Huge Goldust fan too, so there. His comebacks in the 00's where he looked better each time makes him one of the best past 40 workers ever probbaly, although never featured in any position to show up "great workers of the decade" like Cena and Orton and Edge. The only black hole in his career is the late WCW stint and TNA Black Reign stuff.

Well let me tell you my friend, if you like Japanese women in one-piece bathing suits screaming, are you in for a treat. Ok. Wanna make some snarky comments about guys in their underwear, wearing mask and slapping each others chests now ?

To kill time before the Top 30, I made a little research. I counted the US mainstream guys in both lists thus far. I let on the side the guys who made their case more in Japan than the US (Hansen, Gordy, even Ultimo Dragon although his WCW years were important I believe), classic guys (the oldest US mainstream guy would be Race) and territory guys (Lawler, Kerry, Rose). In 2006, I counted roughly 35 names in the top 100 that I would consider being part of "US mainstream" (body of work in NWA, WWF, WCW mostly) We're already at 30 in 2016, and 30 names are still to come. So I think in the end, the difference will be pretty important as I don't think we"ll see much of "niche" candidates anymore at this point. Let's see. Maybe I'm off on this.

Well, I figured Benoit would show up around these spots. I had him at #31 myself. Way too good to drop lower, he was just an amazing worker was so long, although I've been down on some of his early Japan stuff for almost 15 years now. But his WCW work. The Sullivan feud. The Eddie match on Nitro. The Raven & DDP program. The Booker T miracle. It's not like he was working only with world's beater over there. He wasn't as good once he hit WWE, as he was forced into their style and got bad habits out of it (working too much with Angle maybe ?) but still, what a pro-wrestler.

I refuse for people to think of El Dandy like that. Someone used it as a comment, but I cut it out. I want that association to go away. Come on now. It will never go away. Better bask in its glory. I loved El Dandy in 2006 after watching a bunch of his matches. Couldn't in good conscience vote for him again since, apart from his WCW stint, haven't watched/rewatch anything. Yeah, I fucked the luchadors over. But I do love Lucha Underground.

Grim, you really should have put that damn Bret Hart quote for Dandy. Like it or not, that's one of the most iconic quote in pro-wrestling for nerds like us.

Seriously, a #36 ranking for a guy whose prime was in Portland in the late 70's early 80's and who, from your own account, doesn't have much in term of great matches (I've seen two, at least, counting one Rockers match in AWA). Being frustrated about that doesn't make any sense, really. It's all positive if you love the guy.

Buddy Rose has been one of the most pimped guys in the last few years, along with Fuji & Fuji and Lawler. I'm not surprised he did well. Still, in the end, I do think the category that will progress the most in the Top 100 is mainstream US guys.

Yeah, I was really thinking about Buddy Rose when I talked about mainstream US guys... Fucking Portland.

Had Buddy Rose at #87. Haven't seen enough to put him higher, but the Hennig feud and the AWA stuff is good enough for me to make him part of my Top 100.

Foley was my #45. Too much really good stuff in WCW and WWF plus his ECW stint that was incredible from a "character work" standpoint. Yeah, I know. There are still a few stuff that I'm really not a fan of though, the stupid potato match with Vader, the infamous Hell in the Cell match with Da Bump (who am I kidding, it's Shane O-Mac who's got the nod now), the awful chairshots match with Rock at the Rumble. Maybe he's a bit of a nostalgia pick.

That Timeline with Kevin Nash is what youd expect from him. Pretty funny at times. Not exactly deep as far as insight goes, but never boring. You can easily filter through Nash's bullshit, and he comes off like a guy you'd want to have a beer with. Love his Sullivan's impersonation the day after WM XIV.

Honestly, if his TNA work keeps on delivering like it did the first year, AJ could get dangerously close to my top 10. Eddie is not even close at this point.

Then maybe you should stop crying about how people didn't rate enough shoot style or joshi workers. No women or shoot-style workers in the top 39. If 5 luchadors are making it, then they didn't need my votes apparently. (well, depends what you call "luchadors", I'm guessing we're not talking about Eddie and Rey here)

And so credible in a shoot-style match too.

Ironically, I had AJ Styles just behind Fujiwara in my list, at #28. His peak in New Japan has been terrific, and as I'm going threw early TNA, he strikes me as a great wrestler already in 2003. Filling the holes and he gets pretty fucking high in my book. Like CM Punk and another contemporary candidate, I'd have to actually watch more in-beween to see if he goes up or down, but AJ Styles is one hell of a talent.

He was, like many, a shoot-style guy was also worked in pro-style promotions. As a shoot-style guy, he also used quite a bit of pro-style stuff. Did I mention his horrible headbutts ? He also wasn't that great working outside of shoot-style environment, unlike Yamazaki or Takada. He was fun, but not that good, especially past his peak. Yes.

I didn't expect Fujiwara to show up that soon after years and years of hardcore pimping, some warranted, some not. I had him at #27. Great worker in the 80's, up to the end of the second UWF. Although he had his ups and down, I'm not fond of his work in New Japan during the UWF feud for instance. Great mat technician and submission wrestler, but could get goofy with no-selling and silly headbutts too. That he's the highest shoot-style guy ranked at #40 is telling, both of the fact he's been pimped like crazy over the last 10 years, and also that shoot-style really didn't fare well.

Enjoying the details people are adding to this thread. Makes it more fun to me, and everyone I'm sure. PPV 43 Hey ! Finally, TNA goes into the shitter again. What a dumb as fuck show this was. *Glen Gilberti, N°1 contender after beating up Jarrett like no ones business and winning a complete clusterfcuck Royal Rumble-like match (with pinfalls counting anywhere too). Ok, I think Gilberti is a pretty good worker and did well on the mic. But really, Disco Inferno main eventing against Jeff Jarrett ? What is this ? USWA circa 96 ? *Talking about this mess, the matches during the show were qualifyers for that Rumble-like fiasco. Expect, of course, the vast majority of the participants didn’t have to qualify at all, so every JTTS gets automatically into the thing while AJ Styles has to earn his spot, for instance. Dumbfucks. *A bordeline disturbing angle with Kid Kash beating up Trinity in front of people while nobody around moves an inch. Great babyface locker room. Kash had been established already. Trinity won their grudge match. This was needless and gratuitous. Russo is a dipshit. BTW, Tracy Brooks threatens a sexual harrassement lawsuit yet acts like she’s gonna whore herself to the commisionner at the same time. Vomit. Desire vs Tracy was closer to softporn than a pro-wrestling match. Oh, then Tracy gets into the Royal Rumble match and Kid Kash beats the shit out of her too. From simple « complete jerk jealous of his valet » he’s now « woman beater ». Fuck that shit. *Surprise entrants in the Asylum-whatever match : Rick Steiner & Buff Bagwell. Star power. No comment. *Harris Boys sounding like racist homophobic pigs on the Interrogators segment. I guess it’s allright since they’re heels right ? Well, they sounded a bit too genuine to me. *Tag Team titles being defended one against two and changing hands on a DQ. The match of Lynn & Red vs Daniels was actually quite good until the shit finish, they made it work. Daniels is great, definitely. A top 5 worker in the company already. *Storm (James) vs Harris (Chris) having a decent qualifyer match playing on familiarity (although a little bit too choregraphed to me), settling their differences yet teasing problems again during the Royal Cluster. Fuck me… No one wants to see this, as showed by the tepid reaction to their match at first. Ultimately, only the opener XXX (Low-Ki & Skipper) vs AJ Styles & D-Lo Brown was a good match without any shit booking. Brown keeps on looking strong in the ring. The other qualifyers were a bad ECW match with New Jack diving to his death. He cuts a good promo before the three way against Sandman & Sabu though, as old ECW issues seems to be the new thematic now. Yeah. Complete shit show. Only thing that made sense was Raven showing up at the end to screw Sabu. And frankly, Sabu vs Raven is sort of an ECW dream match to me. I'm sure they'll find a way to ruin it though. 2003/05/03 AJ Styles & D-Lo Brown vs XXX (Skipper & Low-Ki)

Had Choshu at #79. I'm a Choshu fan, but I do think people only got to see the best stuff of his and not the mediocre stuff, and really didn't take in accounts his flaws. Seems a bit too high. That being said, nice that he got higher. I have 33 left, which is not surprising since I didn't rate any luchadors (5 are left ?) and I rated some women and shoot-style guy pretty high.

Hey, DiBiase, I forgot about him. Didn't vote for him this time around. Most average greatest wrestler ever and greatest solid wrestler ever. Yeah, that recommended match list... Struggling to find something really special ? I still love Teddy, of course, but he ain't all that. Million Dollar Man gimmick still helps him a whole lot for perception I think.

Going through his AWA stuff, Rick Martel's stock went way up with me. What a great worker he was in the 80's. I just love his stuff over there. Of course the tag work in WWF is also really strong. And then he shows up past his prime in WCW in 98 and looks like one of the better guys, although working an old-school style which wasn't going to get over (like Backlund showing up in 93 in WWF). I just wish the 80's Montreal footage would show up, preferably with Carpentier/Hauray's commentaries, I would just go crazy for that kind of shit. Anyway, Martel was my #48. Glad he gained so much spots in the final list. Quebec Love !

Fujiwara footage was available for ever. Mike Lorefice was selling PWFG footage 20 years ago on mixed tapes. The UWF stuff was always widely available to anyone interested in buying it. It's just that Fujiwara had probably been forgotten about in the 90's, it's not like his work then was anything special at all, to say the least. The shoot-style was dominated by UWF-I and RINGS, so Takada & Tamura were the big names while Maeda was considered past his prime. But let's wait for Fuji to show up, he deserves a high ranking.