El-P

Worst ? Yoshihiro Takayama. Just a bad bad worker in UWF-I, and not particulary good in AJ before finding his ways.

Well, since I'm at it : Mariko Yoshida (super worker for 6 years even before she peaked in 98/99). Nobuhiko Takada (peaked in the mid 90's, already great as early as the mid-80's). Crazy statements I don't think so.

Ok, not as great, but not quite the gap some would think. Yoshida was already a superb worker as early as 1992, and after her injury, she made a comeback not missing a beat near workers like Toyota (who was peaking) and Hasegawa (peaking too). So let me rephrase this : Yoshida's peak >>> Hase's peak. Yoshida post prime >>> Hase's post prime. Yoshida before her prime = Hase before his prime. So yeah, while Hase's peak > Yoshida before her peak, there's not a lot of argument I can make for Hase overall. And I love both.

Indeed. FLIK keeps the joshi flame alive, which is no small feat. I used to do some pimping posts on 1992 myself back in 2003 or so, but nobody noticed then. Keep in mind, when I say she was better than Toyota in 92, it also takes in account the fact I think Toyota wasn't that great at this point. Yoshida went way up and Toyota went down (quite a bit) during my 1992 AJW watch. Maybe, but considering the style she worked (with a bit more lucha style and matwork) and the way she was doing it (smarter than say, Toyota), I don't think it would have made much a difference. Girls like Shimoda and Takako peaked after the interpromotionnal era too despite being deeply involved in it, and Yoshida would have worked at their level on the cards, probably in tags, and not in big long single matches. I think what made her peak was her will to reinvent herself in a totally new style, in which she excelled. She would have done it anyway after leaving AJW and the feather hats behind.

Did WCW do it consistently until the NWO era, or was there a period in the early 90s when they stopped? I seem to remember that Bill Watts brought that rule back out of retirement when he took over, but I'm not sure. They mentionned getting rid of the rule sometime in 1998. I don't think it was officialy done before.

Yoshida. Hase's career is well documented, he was a superb worker from the mid 80's to the mid 90's, and although his days as a juniors might not may remembered favorably these days, his peak as a workrate machine of NJ in the early 90's makes him a contender as one of the best japanese worker or the era. That being said, he has been rather disapointing during his comeback in AJ. Not meshing that well with the AJ style (which was surprising since Hase was all about stiffness and workrate, which suited the spirit), not delivering on a regular basis like he would before, although Hase was still good in the later part of his career, he wasn't a great wrestler anymore. Yoshida's early career is not as well known, because she was not pushed as much as girls like Takako, Hasegawa, and because she got injured just before the interpromotionnal eras, missing some of the biggest shows ever. Still, watching Yoshida in the early 90 makes it clear she quickly became an excellent worker, to me she was better than Toyota in 1992, and she remained an excellent worker despite the lack of push and bad outifits until she left AJW. Then, she reinvented herself in ARSION, turned into an über sexy and sleek matwork machine, created her own style that no one could follow (except Yumi Fukawa) and to me became the best wrestler in the world at that time. Lack of lot of good competition made it tough to get great matches back then, but she's been consistently superb since then, and people who followed the scene in the following crumbling years never reported any kind of drop in her work. She was also noted for being one hell of a trainer. Peak vs Peak, Yoshida is better. Career vs Career, Yoshida takes the cake too, her years in AJW are very underrated and about as good as anything Hase did during his peak (for the mid-90's).

Well, I actually never realized Flair regained the title in 91 on a house show. What a horrible way to erase 6 months of booking after a totally failed Sting title reign. Couldn't they at least book an angle for the Clash ? At the same time, I guess they realized Sting was doomed as far as being the Man was for the time, and they had to move onto other things, which would end up being nothing actually with Flair leaving with the belt. The finish of the Flair vs Sting match is another pet peeve of mine as far as Flair goes, sometimes the finish of his matches are just incredibly weak for world title matches, hell title changes. Here we get the infamous "Flair and his opponent bang their head, Flair rebound on the ropes and magically falls onto his opponent, and win the match despite being knocked out". While Will talked about the cross body being a game ender, which I don't buy for a second, I have actually seen Flair win several matches that particular lame way (I remember a Kerry match too), and I know that when Flair and whoever he faces bang their head while near the ropes, Flair usually wins. So I guess I'll call "Flair banging his head and falling accidently on his opponent" a game ender. I hate that finish. The best stuff on WCW during January 1991 was the Paul E. vs Missy feud, with fun little slapping and great Paul E. promos.

To me, Johnny Hotbody was the stand out worker of the early days. Candido would have, if he had stayed a little longer. I don't remember Rebel being particulary good to be honest. Decent I'd say.

I couldn't agree more. That's actually exactly how I see Flair.

Well, the fact is, he wasn't. Flair was a cheater. That's the whole character. Flair was the "dirtiest player in the game", a guy who would cheat to win. Ok, let's take this other exemple. The real only "game ender" of Flair was the figure four. It was sold as Flair's biggest and most efficient weapon. How many time Flair won a major title with the figure four ? How many time Flair got the figure four reversed by a babyface who never use it usually, or got roll up while trying to go the figure four ? I'm pretty sure the stats would not be overly positive in favor of Flair here, despite the fact the Figure Four was supposed to be Flair's specialty. A crossbody from the top wasn't. Never has been. Flair going to the top never screamed "game ender" but "Flair gets tossed". Trying to put more into this because Flair was booked to win twice with it it clearly overinterpretation.

In good a wrestling match yes. It was not the case here, they just ignored it. I blame the ref for getting down to count the pinfall attempt the first time. After that big of a fuck up, it was doomed anyway. But they probably should have been smart enough to not go for tons of pinfalls during the first five minutes while Ross and Caudle had to no-sell every attempt of it despite what was clearly happening in the ring. It was embarrassing to watch. Just retarded. Really ? I thought it was pretty sloppy actually, with Rogers not looking good at all. Pillman's dive was the highlight, sure, but apart from that... Terry Taylor vs Arn Anderson on the same show was a super solid match however, and I'm digging the slow Terry Taylor heel turn.

First show of 1991. They spend a good amount of time explaining the audience that Brian Pillman would face Rip Rogers in a match where the pinfall don't count during the 5 first minutes. because Rip Rogers is some kind of "marathon man". Well, 5 minutes, some marathon. But anyway. They do a Rogers promo explaining the reason behind the stipulation. The in-ring announcer actually tells it again before the beginning of the match. Match begins, like 30 seconds into it, tackle, Pillman goes for a pin (because it's "reflex") and... the referee gets down and count. Ross & Caudle absolutely no-sell it. And they do multiple pinfall attempts while the timekeeper announces each pasisng minutes during which they are *not supposed to go for pinfalls*. What a bunch of dumbfucks. Pillman, Rogers, and especially the ref Mike Atkins. Shitty match to boot. Man. WCW for you.

I never ever watched a Flair match thinking "If he hits a cross-body of a top rope, it's over.". Ever. It's not exactly Misawa's Tiger Driver 91. Really, the spot doesn't go beyond "get on the top, get tossed" line of thinking. Flair really didn't had much of anything in term of "game ender". Even the vaunted figure-four was more than usual reversed by the babyface. Flair really wasn't a "game ender" kinda worker. He was a "dumb bitch stealing victories by cheating" worker. Which made all of his charm too.

I actually remember this match and angle quite well, I was just becoming a wrestling fan at the time. And even back then, when I was 14, this made me uncomfortable. Of course I dind't had to listen to Vince's nonsense, but still, the whole angle was embarrassing enough. Actually, this might be the first time ever I was embarrassed to watch wrestling if my parents would be around. On the same topic, just watched a Steiner squash from October 90, with a "lebanese" jobber called Hassan Farruk (what else ?), who they call an "arab" of course, because people from Lebabon are the same thing as people from Irak or Iran, those are all arabs after all. And then after the finish, Ross says that Hassan must be thinking about his former career as a camel driver. Not racist at all...

"Souviens-toi du vase de Soisson !" Dumbass Stinger... Does 1990 rings a bell ?

Probably one of Foley's best promo ever. All-time classic.

The Dean character was just an albatros anyway. A wrestling teacher with a baby blue outfit with cheesy music.

The 04/01/96 match was a lot worse.

Hum... because he's the leader of the group and Cac is his flunky... Raven said about this interview (I think) that there was no way anyone could follow Cactus so it was useless for him to say anything.

I actually thought about that, I know Cornette pushed him pretty hard in Smokey. I was really wondering how that went. Well, I guess he's the kind of guy that would really gain from working under a hood. Give him a character he can work with only via body language, and he'll be fine and no one will see how bland he really is. What ? Star Blazer you say ? Ok, that was a fail.

I'm going through some Power Hour of 1990, and damn, Tim Horner is the least charismatic good worker I've ever seen. He makes Dean Malenko looks like Randy Savage. It's too bad, because he's a real good mechanic, much better than pushed guys like Zenk, but he just has zero facial expressions. This guy should have gone in Japan, he would have got through by strictly work.

I see your point. Still, I've watched a countless Tommy Rich matches from 89/90 lately, something I wouldn't wish on anyone, and basically, Tommy Rich would always do the token armdrag/armbar/elbow on the arm routine that every babyface of the era would do. In every match, no matter if it was a squash (and Rich's squash matches are the dullest and the most boring you can get) or a competitive match. I always feel he's doing it because that's what a babyface is supposed to do at that time. I don't see any thoughts about it. His finisher (the shittiest Thez press ever) doesn't have anything to do with it. He doesn't work holds worth a damn (contrary to a guy like Arn, whom you felt is trying to hurt his opponent for the sheer fun of it). It doesn't lead to anything in particular and isn't very engaging in any way shape or form. So, how can I call that ? Lazy psych ? Well, it also works with Flair getting thrown from the top. I understand your point, although in both cases, the result is either action packed match with good spots or slower but logical match. In Tommy Rich instance, to pursue with my exemple, I don't see anything but lazy automatic routine babyface stuff which isn't engaging and leads to nothing. When Ricky Morton does it, his execution and quickness make it fun because it's Morton being quicker than his opponent, catching him from every corner and then keeping him down to not get hit. Then doing it again, and throwing variations into the mix. Of course, Morton was a great wrestler while Rich was blah. Yeah, pretty much.

You're the only guy who can bring out PP Pasolini in a wrestling discussion. Yeah, Mamma Roma is a great movie, and special to my heart. Odd to read about it from nowhere, on this wrestling board, especially these days for me. Yesterday I saw "A Dangerous Method" by Cronenberg, and C.G. Jung says that he doesn't believe in coincidences. Really odd to hear about Mamma Roma today... Anyway, back to wrestling. At some point (long time ago), I thought too that a guy working on a leg or an arm was sufficient enough to be call psych. I was wrong, of course. Most of "working on a leg/arm" stuff is just spending a little time before the end run, and only in good matches does it play any actual role.

Oulette is one of the lost worker of the era. He never got quite the push he should have. And I admit to liking the pirate character.

The American Males, stupid gimmick aside, was a pretty good tag team. Bagwell by this point knew the deal after years of working tag matches with Scorp and Patriot. And Riggs always was an underrated worker. I remember this being a pretty good match, especially for HH.