El-P

I get that, and I actually do see where you're coming from. "This isn't just a bunch of guys playing pretend - no, these guys are athletes, and this is serious business." Right, that's it. I can undertsand that, but Ross would just go overboard sometime and got into details of Simmons or Luger or Pillman's football career. I mean, a mention sometimes doesn't bother me, but at some point it felt like Ross was more interested about those acomplishements and rather talk about real sports than pro-wrestling. The worst was when Steve Williams was in the ring. That is true. That didn't bothered me. At point to me it was *really* annoying. Although I admit watching early 90's WCW TV these days made me enjoy Ross again after years of not even wanting to hear him after he became a parody in the early 00's.

Well, they already announce a real sport, so it's totally different. Pro-wrestling isn't a real sport.

Same thing, PPV free. First PPV they showed was Survivor Series 1991. It was showed in December, a few days before Christmas. They showed some Saturday Nights Main Event too, but it was mixed with some other stuff. The French broadcasts were a mish mash of Supertars, Wrestling challenge with some MSG channel & Mapple Leafs Garden competitive matches too.

Come on Masa Fuchi ! How come anyone not love Masa Fuchi ? He's such a sadistic dickhead. Masa Fuchi punching Tuyoshi Kukichi in the nose and making him cry is the greatest thing in wrestling ever.

Rip Rogers. I realize he's fun and all, but something just doesn't click with me. I'd like to enjoy him. I still don't care.

Not speaking for anyone else, but I've said it before, as a French guy, I was sold on WWF TV because of Eddie Carpentier and Guy Hauray. It would have been WCW TV, or any other kind of wrestling, they would have sold it to me because they were that much entertaining. I remember one of the first *big* angle I saw was the break up of the Bolsheviks. Thrilling isn't it ? And I pretty much didn't like Hogan from the get go. The announcers were the key to sold me that product and make it seem great to me (although it was 80% squash matches, we didn't get PPV at first). So, I don't see why the same thing couldn't apply with Jesse and Vince for some people.

Eh eh.

No, it's annoying as hell and comes off to me as Ross being insecure over announcing wrestling and wants to talk about real sport instead. If there's a thing I can't stand about Jim Ross (apart from the bad JR screaming and overselling everything like a coked up Joey Styles), that's it. At times it gets unbearable when he gets into details of college sports. Who gives a flying fuck ? We already watch the wrestling, you don't have to make distinct effort to try ro seel those guys as college athletes, sell us their wrestling personnality.

Oops.

Kane is involved in the GMOAT ? Wait....

Anyone actually liked Jerry Lawler during those times ? I thought he was pretty unbearable.

I think you can safely argue that outside of Hogan, Vince, maybe Patterson and without a doubt the production crew, everyone was along for the ride.

I think Jerry made a pretty great case for Jesse. I particulary agree with the analyst and presentation part of it. Yes, Jesse was great as maintaining a level of credibility while staying a heel color guy. Pointing out hypocritical stuff by the faces yet still being a denial heel color guy in the end, yet not coming across like a complete goof like Heenan would. And the presentation was a huge part of WWF, and Jesse add to it in spades I think. And yes, announcers are characters, at least good ones. That's why they are great too. They have their own style, their own idiosyncrasies, their distinctive look. I got into wrestling at first probably 70% thanks to the announcing style of Guy Hauray and Eddie Carpentier, who could make *anything* watchable, even if it took creating their own stories around the wrestlers or talking shit about something else, yet always coming back to the wrestling. They were great characters, and I nearly quit watching when Hauray was gone and I was left with Ray Rougeau and some other terrible guy with him. I think Jesse played a role in helping Rick Rude get over to the WWF crowds. I don't care about the HOF, which is bullshit anyway but don't tell me Jesse doesn't at least have a case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbUGwQV3L44...nel_video_title Man, that's a piece of nostalgia to me. I still remember Guy Hauray's hysterical laugh at the end making fun of Carpentier. Hauray was so great.

Minuses - Peak as a great worker was 9-10 years out of a 24 year career. That's a minus ? 9-10 year of being a great worker out of 24 years is pretty strong to me. Most don't even last 24 years.

It wasn't the case in the 00's at least. I haven't watched a Noah card in years though.

Akiyama, after a first awesome few years, is the picture boy for underachiever. Very frustrating to watch in NOAH.

I like Jesse in WWF a lot, but from what I know of his days in WCW (being mostly PPv's and Clashes thus far), I agree Jesse and Schiavone were the best combination, and one of my favourite ever. Lawler became an unlistenable parody of himself by 2000/01, I don't know how people didn't get sick of his lecherous old man act which was a lot worse than his standart heel act.

He wasn't ?

Wrestle War 91 might be one of the best PPV ever. Sadly my version didn't had the JWP match nor Terry Taylor vs Z-Man, but when even a match involving JYD doesn't suck, you know it's a good card. I hadn't seen Lex Luger vs Dan Spivey in years, and forgot how good it was. What a match. The best stuff Luger was involved with since the Clash match with Flair. And although Luger was good, the reason why this match got so good is all Spivey. You can see it's his match. He brings so much shit to the table, giving Luger false hope spot and comebacks then cutting him off, beating the shit out of him with big moves. Also the match makes sense because Luger never gets the best out of Spivey and has to outquick him to try to win and escape with the title. I'm not familiar with Spivey's work in AJ past 91, but this is his definitive US match. The post match angle was Koloff was obvious, but well done. Koloff really looked like a proto-Goldberg. Also, I don't know why the Wargames match isn't talked in the same respect as the 1992 one, it seemed like a great match to me, as good as it could be. Great performances by Windham and Pillman especially, triple blood, Steiners throwing people around, Zbyszko making quite a debut. Only botched stuff was Sid calling spots audibly with Rick Steiner, and of course the infamous powerbomb on Pillman. The ending with el Gigante was goofy, but Pillman getting KOed was a good finish. So, yeah, a great Wargames match, probably my favourite until that point. Big Josh in my new shitlist N°1 at this time. What a waste of Matt Borne, I hate it.

I love Sayama's UWF stuff. And I guess I wouldn't be down on his Tiger Mask stuff as much as people seem to be these days (although I was never a huge fan to begin with and always thought he was overrated). I think Rey's WWE stuff is overrated and don't believe the "second peak" talking point about Rey. Still, Rey smokes Samaya seven ways to Sunday.

Managers and valet also became a meaningless role. Not because it doesn't work, but because WWE sucks and can't book a wrestling product worth a shit. Bobby Heenan and Jim Cornette were great heel managers. Where are the great managers in 2012 ? Sensationnal Sherri defined great valet. Where are the great valets in 2012 ? Hell, where are the great face announcers today ? So yeah, it doesn't work as a knock against Jesse to me.

Totally agree. It's funny, you always hear about how Bam Bam was a great worker, but watching his ECW stint, which to me is probably his best, I just don't see the great performances. There's always something missing. He was a good worker yes, but never quite got to the next level, never pushed anyone to the next level. I finally settled on the idea Bam Bam is not that good of a worker and that I shouldn't except anything great from him, and with that in mind, I'm much more comfortable with Bigelow's work, which is always fun, but never great.

WTF ? Who came first ? Trish Stratus ? Lita ? IIRC, Toyota came first, Stratus second. Not surprising given how she's been put over as a worker by Meltzer for all these years and being pushed as a legend by Chikara recently. Well, at least there was someone like Toyota first I guess. Still...

Heard that before, but it makes no sense to me, because it kinda kills the entire concept. "Yeah, I'm not kicking out so I can rest and pretend I have trouble getting up". Not exactly the making of an exciting match. These kind of matches just don't work well unless you go for knock downs without three counts.