El-P

Well, there's no future for him now... Will Lydon pay hommage ? I mean, he hated the guy, but I doubt he'd ever had a career without him.

Especially when the West Texas Rednecks got over as face against these guys. Man... WCW, I miss you, but then again, I don't.

Hotshoting Goldberg vs Hogan to pop a TV rating was the stupidest thing they could do. I mean, apart from ending Goldberg stroke so soon and give the title to Nash, which was even worse. And apart from the fingerpoke of doom, which reset the entire company one year back and made Goldberg look like an ass. I agree that they could have run for a long time with Goldie before even thinking of ending the streak. He was the hottest thing they had, they just had to feed him hot heels.

Anyone knows about the No Limit Soldier. What a total waste of time and money...

There was an actually fun story that Kanyon told himself I believe about him pretending to bang a girl so he would pass for a heterosexual in the locker room. I don't know who was the guy who helped him with that, maybe it was Vandenberg. Anyway, I don't remember the details, but first guy he bumped into after the whole thing was Waltman I think, and when the word was out that Kanyon had banged this girl, Waltman reaction was "Really ? Oh, I thought you were gay ?" So anyway, it seems people knew.

Terry Funk coming up to Ennio Morricone was grand. The SST coming up with the Halloween theme I believe was pretty nice too. I liked WCW's ripoff version they did for DDP, Chris Jericho anc I believe Raven too. And how can you not love Chris Benoit's porn theme ? They had pretty cool themes for the Horsemen, but most of the music was rotten and sounded so random and dull. Not that Johntson didn't deliver his share of stinker too.

Cornette told a story of Vader working with Shawn and of course getting stiff with him. Then Shawn grabs a headlock and talks to Vader's ear. Next thing you know, Vader goes to Cornette, supposedly crying, saying Shawn told him he was gonna get him fired.

It's disgusting. Tha amount of stress this poor guy had to endure. But of course it's nobody's fault if he ended up depressed and killed himself. WWE never has any responsability in anything, of course.

Oh, I didn't forget about it. The Evangelists Against Television Movies and Entertainment.... E.A.T.M.E. Because what would a Russo gimmick be without a sleazy retarded acronym ? I'm baffled that this guy had a job anywhere in wrestling. I'm baffled he hasn't been fired from TNA yet. I'm baffled Dixie Carter is so fucking stupid. Why do stupid people get so many opportunities and money ? Fuck...

Yep. Me too. After being a WWF fan for nearly 10 years, I just didn't care anymore. It also killed the Royal Rumble for me, which I loved until then when I was a mark. I was beginning to not enjoy the product that much since the fall of 98, but Royal Rulble 99 is clearly when I ceased to be a WWF fan. Terri having a miscariage was embarrassing too. Her whole angle with Val and Dustin was terrible since the heel/face structure was all fucked up. People cheered for Val because he was fun, but Terri was supposed to be this evil bitch who cheated on her husband. Despite the fact that he had been a heel for 10 months after dumping her on TV. Then DUstin turned into Goldust and people turned him face because Goldust coming back was cool. Then Val dumped Terri when she said she was pregnant, and the crowd cheered I believe, because a guy dumping his pregnant woman should be a face of course. Then she tried to get back with Goldust but the announcers acted like she was a manipulative bitch so when Goldust had none of it the crowd cheered Goldie. Then she formed that PMS faction, whose name wasn't mysoginic at all, and kicked men in the balls, to what the crowd cheered. Then she had a miscarriage and we were supposed to feel sorry for her, depsite the fact she was supposed to be a manipulative bitch. But then she said she was never pregnant after all. Yeah, Vince Russo sure knew how to write compelling characters and stories... Jeez, what an awful angle. Felt for sorry for Terri, which I like as Marlena. Watching her shoot interview, she said she thought the whole pregnant/miscarriage/PMS stuff was embarrassing and terrible. She hated it.

Yeah. Bret was the absolute babyface in 95. I don't see how he would have turned heel at all at this point. The fact that he remained over despite having shitty feuds with Lawler, Hakushi, Dentistkane and Jean Pierre Lafitte, and got right into the title picture like nothing happened tells you how much the WWF crowd loved him.

I can't get enough of Cornette telling the story of him calling Dunn a "Bugs Bunny looking motherfucker" at a production meeting.

Sid bombed so hard as a main event heel in 95 it's not even funny. Owen was only seen as main event material against his brother, but was a fun mid-card tag heel along with Yoko at this point, who would never be seen as main event material either. Only Jarrett/Roadie were hot mid-card heels, but by August they were gone. Diesel really had no one to work with after Bret and Shawn. The main heel faction was the Million Dollar Corporation, easily one of the worst faction you can think of. A bunch of JTTS like IRS & Tatanka, over the hill Bundy, and DiBiase sucked as a manager. I thought Kama was a pretty decent gimmick though, but he was cannon fooder for Taker in terrible matches, so... This faction also ruined Bam Bam. No wonder why at the time I thought Skip, Hakushi and Jean Pierre Lafitte were a breath of fresh air. Of course every one of the got totally wasted. 1995 is the nadir of mainstream US wrestling. I don't think it's fair to blame Diesel for that.

I really enjoyed Kanyon as Mortis and as the goofy guy along Raven or the Jersey triad. He was a crazy spot and bumping machine, but he had a fun personnality. It's a really sad news.

Me neither. It's like the Curt Hennig spot gone insane. The bump following the big boot is glorious.

Shawn turning the Hogan match into a parody really doesn't bother me at all. Anyone shitting on Hogan is allright with me.

That's what I'm saying in the WM thread actually. No need for a Man in the company. No need for "booking". Vince sells the WWE brand. He doesn't want a Hulk Hogan or a Steve Austin. The brand is all that matters, hence no need for creating real new stars.

About creating new stars, to me it's like Vince just doesn't want to because in his mind the only real star is the WWE itself. It really struck me during the WM intro (and it has been the same way every year for some time now), that no one individual or match is put over as more important than the other. The show is pretty much about itself, about "WWE Universe", about "Wrestlemania moments" and such trademarks nonsense that is about selling a brand, and not a wrestling match or star. Vince believes he's in the "entertainment business" and that "WWE" is the star. In a way I guess it's smart since it pretty much means that no one is unique, there's no star bigger than the business like Hogan, Austin or Rock, and your audience is "WWE fans" and not fans of one individual. Everyone, as big as he is, is a cog in the "WWE Universe" even Cena who's a great cash cow, will never have the same status as Austin or Rock, although there's no reason he couldn't to me if they truly made him the Man. In a way, WWE became what ECW was, some sort of cult following. Tomorrow people would glady chant "Fuck Cena" if he went away for good to do movies not produced by WWE. There doesn't need to be a Man anymore. It's all about the WWE brand, and people can come and go, it won't matter. But since there isn't many places to go to begin with, it's not like they can become a star somewhere else anyway, so it's the status quo. But it's also why the WWE is dull as dirt. It's also why HHH can still be around (well, that and the fact he fucked his way to the top). Nothing happens, ever. WWE bought wrestling history so they can rewrite it and make money of off it although Vince apparently ain't no rassling promoter, and we're stuck with this awful product. Pro-wrestling is dead, long live WWE Universe, whatever that is supposed to be. And sadly TNA has sunk to lows I wouldn't think imaginable in 2010, so it's not like there's any hope in the horizon.

I'd glady take a roster with Macho King Randy Savage & Queen Sherri, Tito Santana, Mr. Perfect, Ravishing Rick Rude, Ted DiBiase, Barbie, Haku, The Rockers, The Orient Express bumping machine, Big Boss Man, Model Rick Martel, The Hart Foundation, Demolition, Greg Valentine somewhere, Koko B. Ware, and even Warrior carried by good workers like Rude & Savage, over the sea of dullness that is the WWE roster of today. Of said roster, only Rey Mysterio, CM Punk and Chris Jericho are at the same time cool characters and good workers. Taker is cool for once or two shots a year, but frankly, I'm passed the point of caring about a guy I was a fan of when I was 14. 20 years ago. HHH is putridly boring at this point, I can't fathom how anybody can have fun watching him work a match or cut a promo, really, I can't. Cena is the only homegrown musclehead I can have actually get into, because he's so over, and can work the overly simplistic, basic style he does pretty well and get good matches out of it. The rest of the roster is amazingly bland or just plain bad. Orton is still a black hole. Everything he does looks so forced, I'm not buying the ridiculous "Viper" deal at all. And his matches are still dreadfull after all these years. Plus he's basically doing DDP's stuff with the "out of nowhere" finisher. I liked it. Back in 97. So, ok, that's 4 people I can have fun watching on the entire roster, 5 if you add Taker once in a long while for big matches against a quality opponent. And that's not even mentionning the production, which I think is terrible. Nah, give me some old MSG shows with bad lightning and a Hart Foundation vs Killer Bees match instead. Like I said, either WWE passed me by, either it kinda sucks pretty damn hard. I think a little bit of both is true.

What you said. Oh, irony !

Well, seems like you are channeling my brain. Couldn't agree more with everything you said here, word for word.

What does AJ Styles think of all this ?

Not really. Bret did that from 93 to 96, including against limited guys, and really Savage did it before Bret too, working strong main event matches with DiBiase, Warrior, Flair.

Comeback or not, Shawn just doesn't touch Bret or Flair in term of worker. His comeback matches have been very overrated and most of them had the "WWE epic formula" stigma that took him down a bit, although he was better at it than most of the other guys. He was still very good in those big matches most of the time, and he got a lot of mileage out of his comeback, especially piling up big matches. On a weekly basis, I'm not sure though, and I've heard he really only delivered on big occasions. To me Michaels is like Mutoh (although peak Mutoh, we're talking early 90's, blows away Michaels) : big worker match, can deliver the goods but can also be an unprofessionnal or goofy prick. He was great as a babyface in the Rockers, and pretty great as a heel, especially when he formed DX. My favourite Micheals work in term of his character was this period between the summer of 97 up to WM 14. Face IC champ was fine, but his first world title chase and reign sucked. I'm glad he recognizes this and I agree about that storyline making him look corny. I especially hated the Heartbbreak Kid, who has been a very arrogant, full of himself heel with huge bodyguards to cover him up, having now his old mentor by his side. I thought it was really lame, and really the only good thing about Lothario was him getting busted with a camera by Sid at MSG. When I was young I loved Michaels straight from the heel turn, so he was really an old favourite of mine, and was a big reason why I became so hooked. But it doesn't blur my vision of his talent, and I don't put him in the class of Flair, Funk, Bret, Austin, Steamboat, Windham (at his peak) etc... He's clearly a level below. He's been so widly debated over the years, often with few objectivity, since it seems people either loathe him or put him as the best ever. In my case he's been pretty much always a guy I enjoyed to watch a lot, but never as great as he was pimped to be. Oh, and he's coming back too. I guess. His influence ? HHH got his position because he used to carry Michaels' bags. Thank you for nothing Shawn...

That said, and after reading some very mixed reviews from DVDVR, a board that's pretty much very pro-WWE, including a "Why Cody and DiBiase have a job ?" remark that warmed my heart (I don't see shit on them, they look like jobbers on Nitro circa 1996), maybe I'm not that much of an old jerk, and maybe the show was just not that good with lot of really boring stuff and a overhyped main event. Maybe, just maybe, WWE product really does suck and it's not me who is an old jerk.