El-P

Sid bombed so hard as a main event heel in 95 it's not even funny. Owen was only seen as main event material against his brother, but was a fun mid-card tag heel along with Yoko at this point, who would never be seen as main event material either. Only Jarrett/Roadie were hot mid-card heels, but by August they were gone. Diesel really had no one to work with after Bret and Shawn. The main heel faction was the Million Dollar Corporation, easily one of the worst faction you can think of. A bunch of JTTS like IRS & Tatanka, over the hill Bundy, and DiBiase sucked as a manager. I thought Kama was a pretty decent gimmick though, but he was cannon fooder for Taker in terrible matches, so... This faction also ruined Bam Bam. No wonder why at the time I thought Skip, Hakushi and Jean Pierre Lafitte were a breath of fresh air. Of course every one of the got totally wasted. 1995 is the nadir of mainstream US wrestling. I don't think it's fair to blame Diesel for that.

I really enjoyed Kanyon as Mortis and as the goofy guy along Raven or the Jersey triad. He was a crazy spot and bumping machine, but he had a fun personnality. It's a really sad news.

Me neither. It's like the Curt Hennig spot gone insane. The bump following the big boot is glorious.

Shawn turning the Hogan match into a parody really doesn't bother me at all. Anyone shitting on Hogan is allright with me.

That's what I'm saying in the WM thread actually. No need for a Man in the company. No need for "booking". Vince sells the WWE brand. He doesn't want a Hulk Hogan or a Steve Austin. The brand is all that matters, hence no need for creating real new stars.

About creating new stars, to me it's like Vince just doesn't want to because in his mind the only real star is the WWE itself. It really struck me during the WM intro (and it has been the same way every year for some time now), that no one individual or match is put over as more important than the other. The show is pretty much about itself, about "WWE Universe", about "Wrestlemania moments" and such trademarks nonsense that is about selling a brand, and not a wrestling match or star. Vince believes he's in the "entertainment business" and that "WWE" is the star. In a way I guess it's smart since it pretty much means that no one is unique, there's no star bigger than the business like Hogan, Austin or Rock, and your audience is "WWE fans" and not fans of one individual. Everyone, as big as he is, is a cog in the "WWE Universe" even Cena who's a great cash cow, will never have the same status as Austin or Rock, although there's no reason he couldn't to me if they truly made him the Man. In a way, WWE became what ECW was, some sort of cult following. Tomorrow people would glady chant "Fuck Cena" if he went away for good to do movies not produced by WWE. There doesn't need to be a Man anymore. It's all about the WWE brand, and people can come and go, it won't matter. But since there isn't many places to go to begin with, it's not like they can become a star somewhere else anyway, so it's the status quo. But it's also why the WWE is dull as dirt. It's also why HHH can still be around (well, that and the fact he fucked his way to the top). Nothing happens, ever. WWE bought wrestling history so they can rewrite it and make money of off it although Vince apparently ain't no rassling promoter, and we're stuck with this awful product. Pro-wrestling is dead, long live WWE Universe, whatever that is supposed to be. And sadly TNA has sunk to lows I wouldn't think imaginable in 2010, so it's not like there's any hope in the horizon.

I'd glady take a roster with Macho King Randy Savage & Queen Sherri, Tito Santana, Mr. Perfect, Ravishing Rick Rude, Ted DiBiase, Barbie, Haku, The Rockers, The Orient Express bumping machine, Big Boss Man, Model Rick Martel, The Hart Foundation, Demolition, Greg Valentine somewhere, Koko B. Ware, and even Warrior carried by good workers like Rude & Savage, over the sea of dullness that is the WWE roster of today. Of said roster, only Rey Mysterio, CM Punk and Chris Jericho are at the same time cool characters and good workers. Taker is cool for once or two shots a year, but frankly, I'm passed the point of caring about a guy I was a fan of when I was 14. 20 years ago. HHH is putridly boring at this point, I can't fathom how anybody can have fun watching him work a match or cut a promo, really, I can't. Cena is the only homegrown musclehead I can have actually get into, because he's so over, and can work the overly simplistic, basic style he does pretty well and get good matches out of it. The rest of the roster is amazingly bland or just plain bad. Orton is still a black hole. Everything he does looks so forced, I'm not buying the ridiculous "Viper" deal at all. And his matches are still dreadfull after all these years. Plus he's basically doing DDP's stuff with the "out of nowhere" finisher. I liked it. Back in 97. So, ok, that's 4 people I can have fun watching on the entire roster, 5 if you add Taker once in a long while for big matches against a quality opponent. And that's not even mentionning the production, which I think is terrible. Nah, give me some old MSG shows with bad lightning and a Hart Foundation vs Killer Bees match instead. Like I said, either WWE passed me by, either it kinda sucks pretty damn hard. I think a little bit of both is true.

What you said. Oh, irony !

Well, seems like you are channeling my brain. Couldn't agree more with everything you said here, word for word.

What does AJ Styles think of all this ?

Not really. Bret did that from 93 to 96, including against limited guys, and really Savage did it before Bret too, working strong main event matches with DiBiase, Warrior, Flair.

Comeback or not, Shawn just doesn't touch Bret or Flair in term of worker. His comeback matches have been very overrated and most of them had the "WWE epic formula" stigma that took him down a bit, although he was better at it than most of the other guys. He was still very good in those big matches most of the time, and he got a lot of mileage out of his comeback, especially piling up big matches. On a weekly basis, I'm not sure though, and I've heard he really only delivered on big occasions. To me Michaels is like Mutoh (although peak Mutoh, we're talking early 90's, blows away Michaels) : big worker match, can deliver the goods but can also be an unprofessionnal or goofy prick. He was great as a babyface in the Rockers, and pretty great as a heel, especially when he formed DX. My favourite Micheals work in term of his character was this period between the summer of 97 up to WM 14. Face IC champ was fine, but his first world title chase and reign sucked. I'm glad he recognizes this and I agree about that storyline making him look corny. I especially hated the Heartbbreak Kid, who has been a very arrogant, full of himself heel with huge bodyguards to cover him up, having now his old mentor by his side. I thought it was really lame, and really the only good thing about Lothario was him getting busted with a camera by Sid at MSG. When I was young I loved Michaels straight from the heel turn, so he was really an old favourite of mine, and was a big reason why I became so hooked. But it doesn't blur my vision of his talent, and I don't put him in the class of Flair, Funk, Bret, Austin, Steamboat, Windham (at his peak) etc... He's clearly a level below. He's been so widly debated over the years, often with few objectivity, since it seems people either loathe him or put him as the best ever. In my case he's been pretty much always a guy I enjoyed to watch a lot, but never as great as he was pimped to be. Oh, and he's coming back too. I guess. His influence ? HHH got his position because he used to carry Michaels' bags. Thank you for nothing Shawn...

That said, and after reading some very mixed reviews from DVDVR, a board that's pretty much very pro-WWE, including a "Why Cody and DiBiase have a job ?" remark that warmed my heart (I don't see shit on them, they look like jobbers on Nitro circa 1996), maybe I'm not that much of an old jerk, and maybe the show was just not that good with lot of really boring stuff and a overhyped main event. Maybe, just maybe, WWE product really does suck and it's not me who is an old jerk.

Oh, two remarks about the Mysterio match. First, it says how much out of the loop as far as current pop culture I am when I just didn't make anything out of Rey's costume before one announcer mentionned Avatar. Yeah, I'm one of the few human beings in the western world that just didn't watch that movie... Second, I found that pretty ironic in a very twisted way that rey would "pay hommage" to Eddie in this match. CM Punk is an evil straight edge guy, right? And Rey is the face who pays hommage to his dead drug addict friend... Just made me chuckle ! Ok, so when does Shawn comes back now?

Ok, time for "Jérôme hates WWE" moment of the year. I pretty much fast forwarded through most of the show after having to get through the first hour or so. I guess WWE really passed me by. I find the homegrown talent dull and pretty much unwatchable. Rey vs CM Punk was a good ECW TV match, and you can feel the difference between them and WWE "talents". Really the only thing that interested me was the Bret and Shawn matches... Yeah, I'm from the 90's folks... Bret was just sad to watch. The double cross was painfully obvious. Diana still looks hot after all these years. The match itself was pretty shitty and really, coming back for *this* ? I hope he got paid shitloads of money and appeased his heart or whatever, because as a spectacle, it sucked. Taker vs Shawn was a good match, but not a great wrestling match by any stretch of the imagination. Problem is that it's a self-consious epic, like all big WWE match, with obligatory finisher counter and kick outs.... At least these guys know how to work, it shows the gap between workers from their generations and the new guys (when you compare with the robotic, obviously rehashed style of Cena, Batista, Orton etc...). The announcing is fucking atrocious though. I mean, god awful stuff. Ruined every nearfall and the actual fall but being so obvious about it. Ok, so post match is all emotionnal and shit, and at least the announcers shut the hell up during this, which was the right thing to do, and Lawler saying goodbye at the end was a nice touch. I can't say I give a shit about Shawn Michaels now, although I was a big fan of his when I was 17, but it was still kinda moving, not because the guy is retiring (frankly, I couldn't care less), but because it's clearly a big part of my teenage years and my youth that I see go away. Isn't that ironic that Bret and Shawn finally get the big sendoff of the same show ? With Bret looking sad and Shawn looking "great" ? Anyway, like I said, I do think WWE passed me by. The fact that I realized last Christmas that my niece and nephews watch the WWE now and are big fans just makes it all more odd, as I used to be a big fan. And now I can't really share that with them like I could have before. Odd to find yourself in the position of being the "old jerk" who only enjoys old stuff. Well, at least as far as US wrestling goes, since everytime I watched a modern puro show I enjoyed it a lot, so maybe it's not all wrestling that passed me by. But since I was brought up on US wrestling and particulary WWE, it feels kinda odd. Anyway, I'm rambling, but these thoughts to me were more interesting than the matches themselves. I guess in a way I wish I could enjoy the current product, but I just can't, and with each years passing it's getting more and more difficult to even try to watch it.

Jeeez. Sid seems to be one scary motherfucker... I mean, those stories are just insane.

Hum.... Exploiting wrestlers death for a political campaign. Now that's something new.

Well, I am nostalgic of Nitro and Thunder, and WCW in general, if only because you would get guys like Jerry Flynn work random matches on TV, get Gedo or Yuji Yasuraoka get PPV matches, get Mickey Whipreck or Marty Jannetty show up... Ah, WCW...

Is there such a thing as a Goldberg nostalgia match ? I mean, is there really a Goldberg nostalgia ? The guy's whole career was pretty much squashing JTTS on Nitro and blowing smoke out of his nose. I totally hated him back then. Waste of my time, squashed a red hot Raven, was useless in the ring until he crossed DDP. Really not a fond memory at all of that period.

Thanks for posting the original version. Here's the Benny Hill one : Priceless...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7ekE99Aifk No word needed really...

Anyone remembers the Great Hisa Title History pages ? I went crazy reading that stuff 13 years ago.

Concussions and getting a fat paycheck does those things to you I guess...

Yeah, what's the deal with this ? Get publicity ? Saw it last year or the year before, they don't look like porn stars that much, WWE "divas" always looked much sleazier than this. Cultural difference I guess.

Awesome.