MJH
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Didn't Meltzer rave about this as an equal to the Can-Ams match?
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Quit making him feel old. . *** But it's a great run-down, John, and I've been looking to re-watch that Carnival for a while. I figure I'll just run through with the 94 TV and Comms when I've re-watched '93 through. I absolutely second Doc/Akiyama. The difference between that match and their one on the first show of '93 is staggering; Doc really looks like he's having a ball working with the guy and really wants to put him over. I got more story from Kobashi/Akiyama, personally, the last time I watched it. It's "action-based", of course, but I recall getting an underdog story, and remember thinking some of the sequences were particularly well put together even by the assumed standards.
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[1992-08-15-AJW-Mid Summer Typhoon] Manami Toyota vs Toshiyo Yamada (Hair vs Hair)
MJH replied to Loss's topic in August 1992
I saw her win Big Red for the first time live. She wasn't the best worker on the card. Or in the match. I'm trying to remember the number of times I saw here live in 1995-96... I think five cards. She wasn't the best worker on any of them. Not saying she wasn't watchable. She was, on all of the cards. John I kind of agree with both of you here. There were better overall workers around '92-'95, certainly, but... I do think if I was watching AJW in 1992 for the first time she's easilly the most amazing/spectacular. Was there a more athletically spectacular worker in the world? -
I guess mortise locks are more common here or something? I hardly frequent offices but they were all - or at least had and could be used - mortise locks last time I was (I'm guessing they're harder to smash/pick?). You'd need a key to open the door from either side then. And, yeah, I know we're beating a dead horse here .
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Granted I haven't seen the segment, but assuming Sting takes the key with him, my point still stands. Hell, I seem to spend five minutes every other day trying to find my key in order to leave the house.
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Well you can lock most doors I know from the outside. How'd you lock when you leave otherwise? But, as to the second point, um...
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That's understandable. I mean, realistically, this is in the lower Top 10 for the year in AJW, and with the Dream Rush tag the de facto #1, it's pretty superfluous to talk about anything else as a MOTYC. This match makes more sense in the context of both a) the general AJW sprinty style and where they'd come from in 9/91 and 1/92. You watch the young girls who're obviously taught to keep up a certain pace and competitive feel, the spots will come later, and then you see this where they've got it.
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Wasn't John's original point that they did nothing with him between 95 and No Fear? It's one thing for him to finish the 1995 Carnival with 0 points, that's the be expected. But he finished the 1999 one with just one point (drew with Takayama). Even if we take into account that that year's Carnival was smaller than the others and your Izumidas were taken out of it, he should've been much higher by that point.
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I agree with the wider point about indys, definitely. That segment felt like AJPW done badly which might as well the default description for a lot of Indy wrestling I've seen. At least Yamada didn't come back in and play the "your my friend, I don't want to hurt you!" card with Aja like Davey did.
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Repeating moves is a staple of AJW's style.
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They lost me in the third fall, here. Aja goes mad, puts Yamada through a table, picks her up and discards her about ten feet away. Then puts Toyota through another table and left her there to get back in the ring of her own accord. Then, with Yamada still out selling for five minutes, she does a few top rope moves on toyota that feel half-arsed, and the crowd were clearly expecting her waterwheel(?) drop. Now, Aja doesn't need to be urgently trying to beat Toyota, but the segment was dead to me by the time she tagged in Sakie to try and get the win. You should've put on the TV before that one (2/23; taped 2/18) which was awesome fun top to bottom, even the rookies (though they had Minami and Mita in with them).
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Awesome meeting of two worlds. The fuck?!?
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[1992-11-26-WWF-Survivor Series] Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels
MJH replied to Loss's topic in November 1992
Yeah, this is exactly what Bret's NWA Touring Champion routine would've looked like; albeit 30 rather than 60. I think it dips a bit in the middle (Shawn's heel controls were at their worst during his first run), but I've always liked this a lot. -
I'm not so sure it's the loudest/most responsive crowd, though. It goes without saying but Crush Gals... There's also, this, which surely has to be piped, but they didn't pipe any of the other comms, certainly nowhere near to that extent, and the other two matches are noticeably quieter (though not quiet by any means).
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Sorry, it was in reference to Ditch rather than you, John. I read his post as him thinking they were separate matches.
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I'm calling bullshit on that would-be angle, too. It sounds exactly like something someone would make up using peoples' idea of HHH/McMahons etc. There's no way they'd've Spirit-Squaded Punk.
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Eh? Dave was talking about the 4/18 match. Technically it was 3/5 Falls.
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I don't think Rey/Cena was a great match as such - it had no middle and was far too short/rushed - but it had the carefully put together opening few minutes that established everything perfectly, one of the main things I thought Punk/Cena lacked, and was much more smartly put together in general. They also found less obvious ways into the 619 teases than you normally get, had some other creative spots, and it's clear that if given 25' on a PPV they could have a very good, if not a great match together. Punk's return? It makes perfect sense for SummerSlam, as they don't have a big PPV after that until Rumble and they tend to let the Rumble match itself carry that show. But it was both far too quick, and should've featured him coming through the crowd. They didn't even need to have him get to the ring, he could've been up in the crowd by a box and simply raise the belt to Cena from there.
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If you mean the '92 TOSJ Final, Loss needs your support over in the Yearbook thread. *** And I know Loss said he hasn't seen it yet but why do people feel the need to pimp Misawa/Kobashi 1/97? If you've heard of '90s All Japan you know of that match.
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Looking through his lists the other day, Lynch has a hand held version of this show (Bootleg 395). Has anyone seen it? I checked back on Jerad's run through and it didn't show up. If it's a good shot we might as well have that over the clipped TV version.
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Kenta Kobashi, Jun Akiyama, / Kentaro Shiga vs Johnny Ace, Dan Kroffat,/ ???, 4/12/95 ??? is Eagle/George Hines. As far as change of paces go I think this is a keeper. Tremendous fun.
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I've broken down/defended what and why I love about their 10/98 match countless times in the last few years and see no reason to regurgitate the argument. What hurts 6/99 the most (aside from the booking, ie; Kobashi had to go over but really couldn't) is they don't find a way to level it up before the stretch. Kobashi dominates as he did in October, as he would in their NOAH match, but not wanting to re-tell their match entirely from eight months before (I presume...) there isn't any big spot where you buy that Kobashi is now as fucked as Misawa. He has to sell down the stretch but it feels forced because all he's taken as notable transition spots are the caught right kick/left kick that was a standard move at best and the rana into the guardrail which looked neither good nor brutal. Once the TD '91 comes out, OK, fair enough, but he's already been selling equal for a while at that point.
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This is the best regular "southern-style" tag ever, right?
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I'd like to think the only people who read Babinsack do so to get material for stuff like this thread... :/
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I'm not questioning the structure of the match, I just think the execution of it was lacking. Theoretically, the heel coming out strong, beating on the face for five minutes, setting up a few payback spots, and then the face making his comeback and giving it back to him and more should work really well... I just didn't think it did here. The mask-ripping was fine from Samurai at the start, as were the tombstones, the spits and slaps on the break, and the bottle. But then you have some weak submissions, an ugly elbow and an overall lack of intensity (to me at least). And Liger's not fighting any of it other than the surfboard. The transition was just weak. A very telegraphed, total no-sell. Liger's offence is great, but it comes so so fucking easy and Samurai is just laying there. I don't think he even feeds for anything, he just waits for Liger to put him where he wants him and takes it. The transition back to Samurai is awful. It's worse than Liger's because he's taken so much in such a short amount of time, playing dead, and then it just takes a ducked shotei/clothesline and a running elbow and he's suddenly fine again. He takes a small breath after the elbow and it's as if Liger's just had a short sequence and bumped him 2/3 times with basic stuff. Seriously, that's like Davey Richards level. The final five/ten minutes are fine when they're just going back and forth fairly evenly, even though it's fairly generic (though that might be due to me wanting the match over by that point). I get what Samurai was trying to do, and like I said it's good in theory, great even, but hate and intensity requires guys to work for their offence and transitions etc... there was none of that whatsoever. *** That said, it's certainly worth watching. It's a famous match, and it's easy to see why people went ga-ga over it twenty years ago; Liger's throwing bombs that'd still get huge pops today. There's far more potential in them there for a great match than in a lot of guys today because they work a story to utilise Liger's great offence rather than just doing a spot fest like an Ibushi would today. They just don't do it well enough for me.