Beast

Alright, I guess my main criticism of these critiques is that they're both right there for you to tell your issues too. Unlike when John Madden makes a dumb comment on a NFL broadcast and you can't tell him personally what was wrong about what he said, it's easy to let them know your problem with their thoughts. Also, alot of these talking points are so specific (WCW Finishing maneuvers, Shawn in 1992 being better than today's rosters) that I can't get upset about them because they were just throwaway remarks. The Misawa bio is another talking point thrown around often and yes, your criticisms are totally valid. However, even if you feel the bios were lacking, is that really something to get so upset about? I don't want to sound like a dick because I guess I'd be annoyed if I was a bigger Japanese fan, but things happen and if those are the bios we get, those are the bios we get. Bryan's I don't know about, but at least with Dave I'm sure we got the best and most he could produce at that time. Anyway, I know I come off as an apologist and I'll stop now. I just not a fan of all the nitpicking that seems to go on. But hey, it's still interesting to read and I'll stay out of the way.

WTF? The thread started as a showcase of the horrible columns that sometimes get posted on the observer site. Now it's degenerated into a bitchfest about remarks Dave has made. Now, I mainly read it just to see what people are making fun of. Why so sensitive?

Oh I know. Honestly, I come here just to read the conversations you guys have since you put more thought and effort into what you write than anything over at the F4W board. But I was just saying it's annoying to listen to shows Dave and Bryan do and then come over here and see someone latch onto one innocent comment one of them made. That's all.

Pretty much considering their radio show is listened to by so many more people than read this board. Who cares if its members only? They comment on wrestling, then you all deride their views behind their backs. And it is behind their backs, because all you have to do message them. You have a fanatical jealousy against the two of them or something. Otherwise, I don't why some of you would pick apart every little comment they make. But yes, they're the ones doing radio shows for thousands, and you're the ones making snide remarks in a little corner, so yeah I'd say its "behind closed doors". If one of you called them directly on a mistake they made, it would look better.

Please, I'm begging you, just e-mail you're reactions and questions to Meltzer and Bryan so they can react on the shows instead of bitching about it behind closed doors like you all are doing. You're just taking quotes out of context and applying you're own biases towards them. Them talking about Michaels' work in 1992 had nothing to do with his finisher. Them talking about the WCW Great American Bash finishes had nothing to do with Muta. You're generalizing everything they say. Seriously, e-mail you're responses to them so they can respond on a Wrestling Observer Radio and if they still come off like goofs, then there you go.

They weren't saying you can only rate matches when you see them live. They were saying watching a match when it first airs and then watching it 20 years later; you'll probably have a different perspective on it. However, that doesn't change the fact that at the time it happened it might have been a 4-5 star match, regardless of how the business has evolved. Dave was saying that he doesn't rerank matches or change his star ratings because of that reason.

Normally I think people overreact about JR's "grouchiness", but jeez he comes off like a prick here. I did read people on message boards wonder why Dibiase's ear looked all wacky, so instead of just explaining why that is, he has to scold everyone for hypothesizing. What an arrogant ass.

That's the whole point. ZZ Top are long time wrestling fans, fantastic. But they haven't been relevant in over two decades. Considering that the average pre-15 year old doesn't know who Johnny Carson was, I don't know who ZZ Top's appeal is supposed to be for other than guys like JR. Unless the guest host thing is suppose to be a self-mocking joke, this doesn't look good or "hip" to mainstream America.

Yes! Thanks, I appreciate it.

I love your writeups, but I've been waiting for you to get to my birthday (September 8, 1985) and you just skipped from August 1985 to February 1986. Is there anyway you could go back and do the one that came out after 9/8/85 or are you missing those? Thanks, because that would be awesome.

Ok forgetting about the 85 MMA/Pro wrestlers, he's saying that pro wrestling and MMA in Japan overlapped big time in the early 90's. Which is a fair point.

Yeah, I know, I said as much. Probably since Gorilla had that Job For Life spot, he didn't give a fuck if he was following the rules and was sometimes out there to just amuse himself or put himself over. (The few Monsoon matches I've seen would actually corroborate that attitude, since he was one of those heels who tended to be kind of a dick when it came to cutting off the babyface's offense too soon and too often.) With a spot like that, with the referee actually picking Jake up physically, it was most likely Jake himself who called it. Most wrestlers would turn around and punch a ref who did that outta nowhere, it would be considered shooting on them. Childhood favorites? I didn't start watching wrestling until 1999. All my fanboyism has been gained by greatly enjoying his work in hindsight and on video tape. Yeah, that's another fault of his, sometimes Gorilla would get stuck on one point and simply not let it go and insist on getting in the last word. Hey, like me! No wonder I like him so much. Ref bumps and visual falls in general bug me, since it seems like every time a ref gets bumped then almost instantly afterwards someone has someone else covered for about a ten-count. American wrestling tends to be real lazy about that, how a ref always Just So Happens to get bumped right before something important happens. Vince Russo is probably the worst abuser of this, as the workers always have psychic powers which let them know that the match won't end before the ref bump so that they have an opportunity to interfere or turn on someone or whatever. Just my opinion, but even as I've grown older and looked back on the Monsoon announcing with more mature ears, I still find myself liking him. The things you don't like I find endearing. I like announcers calling the action from an unbiased logical POV. Jesse usually did this best, like when he would call Hogan out on his BS and make Vince look foolish trying to cover up Hogan's actions. I never saw this as Gorilla trying to get himself over, to me he was like Solie, acting as a legit announcer calling a legit sport. I liked when he would call a wrestler out on not hooking the leg or other things of that nature. It made everything seem more realistic.

Isaacduke, I meant outsider in relation to "inside references", as in outside the wrestling reporter circle or something.

So JDW knows Dave, and Bix does as well. How about having your arguments one on one with the man instead of spreading your inane beef all around their websites. Unless the whole point of this is to tell stale jokes and have your buddies laugh with you. As an outsider, which the majority of his readers are, it seems sooooooooooo petty for you to bring up this inside references as to why Dave isn't living up to your standards.

Alright, but it just seems like there are very few people out there in that middle ground who can call Dave on mistakes without getting pissy about it or acting holier than thou. As for Bryan, his audio shows are highly entertaining, at least in my opinion. The newsletter is what he did first and I suppose what he considers his bread and butter, but he's not the one going around calling himself the #2 heir apparent. Just let him do his job and if he does it poorer than you'd like, you don't need to read his stuff.

So you are the faction of guys who've read dirtsheets for so long that you think you know more than Dave and Bryan? Therefore, you need to have a little corner of the wrestling internet all to yourselves to laugh about how much cooler you are then them. Ok then. I'm just saying that if Dave makes so many mistakes and has such obvious biases, and if Bryan's only ability as a wrestling writer is that he's "Dave-Approved", just ignore both of them. You all obviously have enough knowledge and connections between the lot of you that you don't need to have anything to do with any of them.

Until fairly recently (past 5-8 years or so), I never realized Yokozuna wasn't Japanese or even oriental. He doesn't even look Asian really, but I guess the WWF's power of suggestion was so vast that they fooled me for so long.