Matt D

I think Lesnar and Michaels will be very high. 20s high.

With Owen, I'd say that people, in general, value his earlier workrate stuff less and his later character-driven stuff more relative to 2006.

I went #10 on Virus, and I think people could find that just as dubious as someone going #10 on Owen, so I'm hardly in a place to talk (even if I think there's a much stronger case for Virus).

I've got ~41 left which isn't so bad considering how goofy my list is.

The Sarge Peak Matches argument was strong, especially because it can be said in 2-3 sentences. I was not expecting Martel to end with "I've never seen a great Martel Brawl." but I'm not sure. I need to rewatch some things. In my mind the Funk WWC match is 10 minutes of stalling and then brawling, but I don't think it is. I need to rewatch the comebacks in the Sheepherders matches. There weren't any brawls after the AWA bloody Freebirds Martel angle? I guess that I'm immediately not sure, that's an issue, but I'm not sure that'd affect my rating anyway relative to other things.

I guess it depends on if you did your list based on in-ring work alone, or included the other aspects of being a great wrestler. I thought of his ability to connect with the audience and amazing promo skills. I ranked him higher than this. He does have great matches as well, so I wouldn't say he's "way too high" yet... Just my opinion... I feel like this might distract from the broader issue at hand. Let's say Punk gets 100 votes. From the discussion we've had here, I could see 10 of those factoring in his promos, maybe less. That goes back to the anonymity and latecomers, of course, but the wild majority of people voting in this process indicated here that they were voting on ringwork based on footage alone. I think it's more productive to look at what in ring aspects people might have voted Punk this high on.

Big jump on the list as we have our first person with over 100 ballots.

I nominate Steven to be the one to tell Han that his hair is goofy.

That Kennedy steel cage match is so tremendously bad too. Tremendously.

I think that's part of it, but Muto also had the American run that is remembered pretty well. I wouldn't be surprised if we got some ballots with him as the only Japanese guy. I can't imagine something like that.

That might be the most brilliant explanation for Angle that I've ever read. Tip 'o the cap to you, sir. Sounds like a great candidate for someone's favorite wrestler. Not quite sure what he's doing here, though. To be fair that could describe Terry Funk or Dick Murdoch just as easily. Funk or Murdoch ain't going home in a cab. They'd either drive themselves home or get hauled into the local jail to sleep it off following a brawl with the entire town's police force. Funk would get out of the jail stay too, because he'd be selling so fucking well that the cops would be completely fooled.

That might be the most brilliant explanation for Angle that I've ever read. Tip 'o the cap to you, sir. Sounds like a great candidate for someone's favorite wrestler. Not quite sure what he's doing here, though.

But often used it for evil.

I sure as hell blame you. Me too at this point. Especially since Raven deserved a much higher spot from me. I should have had Nash at 100. Hey, maybe his TNA years will convince me to do it for 2026… probably not. Now I'm just sitting back and enjoying people getting mad a Kurt Angle making it this far. I didn't even vote for the guy, but I feel kinda vindicated. Now you know how I feel about Hogan/Piper/Dusty making the top 100 people. Except for the things that got Dusty/Piper/Hogan on the list are the very things that Angle lacks.

If your friend is going to wax poetic about the "greatness" of Kurt Angle then tell him no. I'm at least glad Angle didn't make the top 50. So it looks like the answer is "no, it's not safe". Got it. Back to my WWE loving hole in the ground. Can I interest you in my pamphlet about Mark Henry?

This is one of those things I'm curious to what wrestlers, or types of wrestlers, we see having opinions either improved or lessen. Like what sort of acts that didn't do well on the list are we likely to see people talk about? I don't know, food for thought? Maybe not even that. Right? Like Blade Runner being slaughtered in 1982, now considered a classic. Who might be the "genius who wasn't acknowledged in his own time"? Will footage emerge to reveal someone we hadn't thought about to be a complete master, and who might that be? Which one or ones of the guys we revere today will be cast aside by 2026? How high will the Miz get?

Just spoke about this on the next two hours we did, but I think the traditional iconic image of Blue Panther doesn't quite hold up. On the other hand, I think what we have had since 06 (and OTHER things we see before that in new or relooked at footage) is actually superior in a lot of ways to the traditional iconic image of Blue Panther. That's what people were voting for back in 06 though, I think, an"idea" of Blue Panther.

Angle down, let's move on to Michaels?

Better than Blue Panther, folks. The unruly horde has spoken.

I think ultimately this is match that if you read a play-by-play account it would come off better than it was in reality. The overarching narrative is that Dean will sink just as low as Triple H to accomplish his goals which starts with a series of eye pokes early in the contest and culminates with a exchange of low blows going into the finish. They also feature a call back to the Roadblock match finish where Dean barely gets into the ring to avoid a count out and Hunter goes right to the pedigree. All in all from a lay out perspective, I think the match was constructed well (although the headlock as a control tool for Dean is ill fitting). The issue is one of execution as Triple H especially seems almost casual doing certain things like side side stepping a corner charge or tossing Ambrose out of the ring. It keeps gear of the match too low to pull off a vibe that would work with Dean being frantic and keeping Hunter off balance. I don't think Matt should watch it. Tip to fan cam guys. No one wants to see you and your friends, keep the camera on the action. Keep the ring in frame. I feel like this should be an alternative to star ratings. "Should Matt watch it or not?" Thanks.

Bockwinkel vs Morton This match was a real testament to the power of selling, not just in selling the pain of moves, though there's that as well, but also in selling the weight of everything else that happens in a match. The opening stretch was remarkable for Morton's pluckiness and Bockwinkel's escalating response. We'd seen something like this in his match vs Chavo, but Bock came in with an entirely different attitude here. He started with the handshake, likely expecting to make short work of Morton, but it wasn't personal in the same way. It was just business, a nice little romp in the ring, some high quality calisthenics in front of a mostly unappreciative but at least well-paying crowd before a lovely dinner and nightcap with Robert Heenan. Obviously, it didn't work out that way. Morton reversed one move after the next, getting cheekier each time. Sure, there'd be a moment of Bockwinkel pressing him back into the ropes or locking in a full nelson, even strongly enough that Morton made sure to sell it after the fact, but he escaped again and again. As he did, his yokel confidence grew and grew and grew, even as Bockwinkel's frustration mounted. After an attempt to slow things down and regroup with Heenan failed, Bock's speed increased, his aggression increased, and it just made the backfires and Morton showing of his mettle all the more intense. It was a variation of the theme with of the Chavo match but extremely different, a similar story told a different way. It all culminated with Morton's rebellious slap and Bockwinkel's controlled demeanor finally breaking as he gave up on wrestling and went to fisticuffs first; the emperor momentarily had no clothes, but that hardly mattered because even naked, he was still the emperor and had climbed over the bodies of a hundred fallen opponents (through hook or crook) to reach his heights. While he threw Morton out to really start the heat, there was no need for a King of the Mountain segment here. He had already taken over control and now it was a matter of punishing and embarrassing the youngster for his gall. Even then, he let Morton come off as a youthful force, barely able to contain him with the headlock. While the video quality is as good as ever here, I wish we had a few different angles on the grounded headlock since Bockwinkel's facial expressions are generally the high point of that part of his act. Morton would rise up and Bockwinkel would cut him off, brutalizing him all the way until the pile driver that ended the first fall. The heat segment continued though, with Morton's desperate neck selling as he tried to keep his distance just brilliant beyond his age. There was a real sense of gamesmanship there with Morton coming off like a wounded animal bravely trying to get any edge in the fight that he could. Even into his comeback, he'd continue to sell that neck, even after he hit the momentum shifting sunset flip and took a swipe at Heenan. The nature of the match was such that the vulnerability shifted completely once the falls evened up. At that point, Bockwinkel's belt was suddenly on the line. I think the announcer even made sure to stress it when announcing Morton as the winner of the second fall. Everything up until that point had been preliminary. When Bock had a one fall advantage, he could take his time, could wrestle on his terms. Morton had just proven he could score a pinfall out of nowhere, and if he did it once, he could do it again. Morton's neck was recovering and he started to expertly target Bockwinkel's legs. I wouldn't say he had a huge variety of offense here, but instead, that everything he did looked exceptionally good. Some of that was Bockwinkel's selling, but so much was Morton's enthusiasm and focus, as well as the general sense of vulnerability that came with the third fall of a match with the champion's belt on the line and the momentum having shifted in the challenger's favor. My favorite moment in this was Bockwinkel grabbing Morton's arm when he spun for a figure four attempt. I'd never seen it countered quite like that. It wasn't an inside cradle or anything like that. It was just Bockwinkel desperate to stop Morton from locking the hold in and trying to buy himself a few seconds. The great double punch led into the finishing stretch, where they were really going at it. Bockwinkel's leg selling here was extraordinary. He could have dropped it as they went towards the finish and almost anyone else would have, but it helped frame and define his punch attempts and made that feeling that the title could change at any moment, even in and around the finish, all the more powerful. The finish itself was good, stemming from the same Morton enthusiasm that had carried him through the match. I'd seen Bockwinkel use a similar closing stretch with Martel around this point but this, again, felt different, a different shade and slightly different tone. I'm sure the fans left the arena disappointed that Morton didn't pull it off but at the same time satisfied for the earnestness of the attempt and just how close it had come. Bockwinkel, in portraying that balance between vulnerability and mastery almost certainly left them thinking that maybe next time it'd be the one (and they darn well better pay the ticket price for that show, just in case). Just another match that we're so lucky to have. Bockwinkel was amazing, first and foremost because he reacted to everything. It's as if he was working at 2x speed, but instead of using that to do more, to fit more spots in, he used it to react to things with more depth and detail than any other wrestler I've ever seen. It's sort of the difference between watching wrestling in black and white and in color. Everything resonates more. Everything matters more. You really don't know that wrestling can be this way until you watch Bockwinkel, and Morton, at this stage of his career, was just another great foil for him.

Selling matters way more than how the strike is thrown. Is that a crazy notion in a world of people who love great strikes?

Has anyone seen the two Martel matches from 95? I'm curious, but we're obviously past the fact. Someone posted them in the last month or so.

You guys are great but this is going to be a 1.5 speed listen.

The best part of wrestling is making the unreal seem real. That's the whole point. A wrestler who inspires your imagination is way better than one who really hits someone really hard.