Matt D

That's not necessarily opposite to what I'm saying. I'm just saying I'm not enthused by that particular narrative.

Some. Enough that I wasn't rushing to see more. It was exhausting in a bad way.

I meant the fact that I was super weird. But, it stems from the fact I like matches with broader and deeper selling more than hard hitting, face crashing affairs. From what I've seen of Japan Hansen, I'm fine with the stuff where he's really dominant, but that's about it. I like how he tends to sell outside of Japan better. He's one of the most naturally logical wrestlers I've ever seen, as in, you watch his matches and think "Yeah, okay, this is what would happen," and it has this intrinsic logic in a way that I appreciate in other wrestlers and respect in him, where it's more driven by action than thought, where all other options are sort of squeezed out so that there's really only one way it could go. I just don't always dig that one way. It's remarkable, though. Absolutely. It's just not for me.

It's a fair argument.

I like Hansen outside of Japan so much more than in Japan.

When people screw up the timing on a hot tag. I just watched the Mojo/Ryder vs Samson/Whoever tag from NXT from last month and Zack was playing FIP. Samson puts his head down, gets face crushed to the mat. Zack catches his balance and dives across the ring, and it was probably more realistic than selling more, and putting some drama into it and building up the moment, but if he had done that, it would have been a thousand times better. It doesn't need to be a simultaneous tag or anything. I'm not saying that. He just needed to milk the moment for a little more, hell, a lot more. He had to make it seem like a struggle, like it mattered. He had to take even just a few seconds and use his body language to build himself towards that corner. The entire point of a face-in-peril is to build to that moment. Pay it off right. It's not rocket science.

Wagner, Jr. in the mid 00s was so good at projecting to the entire crowd and amazing at telegraphing his moves in a good way, in setting the stage for them so that they mattered. The problem is that he took it too far and could be an absolute ham when something like, I don't know, selling, would make more sense.

The single best part of the match was the uppercut in the corner. I do think things went a little long in the tooth as things went on (not that it was long but the dramatic moment kind of fizzled after Lothario got the chain after a great heat and comeback) but it's a huge testament that the crowd didn't think so. They were hot for everything.

I totally got a Memphis vibe from Gordman vs Lothario too. I could have used a bit more chain hiding, but it was a blast. The super hot crowd helped.

You are a scholar and a gentleman. Now watch the battle royal and decide who's right about the Valentine vs Brody bits.

I think they're a team that are really helped by the footage explosion of the last ten years.

And I was disagreeing with the fact that you went to a sports comparison with it when that's not really accurate.

Generally, I think the people who DON'T care are the ones who put it in those terms. That was my argument, so if the person's framing it that way, then he's missing the point and sort of raising a strawman.

I don't think we need to go around this circle again, but no one who cares about the latter part of a wrestler's career thinks about it in sports terms, except for MAYBE in the sense of that great journeyman catcher, Jake Taylor, but even that... y'know, fiction.

I think it was on an Exile on Badstreet where someone made the argument than 1989 Bushwhackers were bigger STARS than 1989 Flair.

Some of those will be false positives from his son. You're right, and the Million Dollar Man search would give false positives for Steve Austin.

Google hits are interesting here. The top guys I found were Dibiase and Sheik, though nicknames make it a little tricky especially for a guy like Jake who looks to be on the next tier with Duggan. But Dibiase is well above a lot of others.

One real takeaway I had from watching the AWA 80s set was that in 80-83 or so, there seemed to be a real fear of letting the heels get heat in the arenas in any meaningful way. It was striking. That could have been selection bias but I watched some TV as well. When you combine that with the idea of bringing in old timers to pop houses, it's a fun little comparison.

Can someone tweet Tharpe about the 3 day tournament that Tito Santana won in 81-82 (I assume it's the "Gold Cup" thing up there) to celebrate Boesch's 50th year in wrestling. Presumably, because it was something that was obviously important to Boesch, there's a good chance it's taped right? EDIT: here's what Boesch wrote right before staging it: http://www.wrestling-titles.com/personalities/boesch_paul/career.html Think I've got results: 10/30/81 Houston, TX(1st Night of Gold Cup Tournament) Wahoo McDaniel draw Nick Bockwinkel(20:00) Dos Caras beat Bull Ramos Dick Slater beat Evan Johnson Manny Fernandez beat Terry Allen Gino Hernandez double countout with The Sheik Tully Blanchard draw Mike Graham Gene Kiniski beat Tank Patton Moon Mulligan beat Kelly Kiniski Tom Pritchard beat Don Serrano Tiger Conway, Jr. beat Ray Hernandez Scott Casey beat The Spoiler 10/31/81 Houston, TX(2nd Night of Gold Cup Tournament) Nick Bockwinkel beat Wahoo McDaniel Ernie Ladd beat The Sheik by DQ Gino Hernandez beat Hiro Matsuda Verne Gagne beat Dick Slater Dos Caras beat Tully Blanchard by DQ Ken Patera beat Evan Johnson Mike Graham beat Don Serrano Tom Pritchard beat Nick Kozak Gene Kiniski beat Moon Mulligan Manny Fernandez beat Bull Ramos Tiger Conway, Jr. beat Kelly Kiniski Scott Casey draw Tank Patton 11/1/81 Houston, TX(3rd & Final Night of Gold Cup Tournament) Tito Santana won 12-man battle royal for Gold Cup Trophy EDIT2: Apparently, Verne wrestled Kiniski on the 11/1 show too.

You're just burnt out. Hardly a good judge unless you're agreeing with me.

Ironically, you're still in the Southwest.

Yes, and you guys are killing me by not adding in a second opinion

Hey guys.. So, stop what you're doing, whatever it is, and watch Reed vs Santana. It's pretty damn great. What really makes it is the struggle that they put into every hold. You can see it on their faces and it's worth its weight in gold. I'm pretty certain that it's a match we didn't have before.

The idea is the he holds WMIV in scorn when the issue was the Clash

Tournaments don't draw.