Matt D

I really liked Fabs vs Saito/Bock but I had it at #36, which is more about 1-35 being stacked. It's one I probably need to rewatch. I also have High Flyers vs Saito/Bock super high relative to this and no one else seems to have liked it nearly as much as me, so I need to rewatch that one in comparison. I've got the Brody matches in the 130s, a few spots apart. I'll rewatch things like the Lawler/Mulligan tag, but I don't think I'm going to be rewatching these. Johnny (Sorrow) pointing out that Larry was using heel tactics since he'd been a heel is pretty much his finest analytical moment. It was also good of him to admit that he doesn't care if a match makes any sense so long if he likes the work. That's ok, since it's all subjective, but it's definitely something to acknowledge from the get go. Anyway, I hated the moment where Larry let the heels take over after a shoulder block collision, which you guys didn't talk about. I've seen him do that in other matches too and it bugged the hell out of me. I mainly thought the second half wasn't nearly as good as the first half. I think this was somewhere in my 120s though I do have a Larry Hennig match in my top 50. I suppose I can watch this thing again. People on DVDVR liked the Warriors match way more than I did. I thought there was a lot of Hawk being lost and people seemed to think that it was more of a "Hawk kayfabe not knowing what to do vs the giant," and I didn't see it that way at all. I'll probably have to rewatch this as well since I have it really low. (Also, I hated both Demolition and the Road Warriors as a kid, fwiw. Huge Rockers fan. Young Pistols fan. Big Steiners fan. Big Hart Foundation fan, and weirdly enough a big Enforcers and then Arn/Eaton fan in 91-2). I have the Roadies vs High Flyers way higher, but still not in my top 50. DVDVR is temporarily down for me, so I have no idea what I thought of Hennig/Bock (I mainly have time to listen to these at work), but I have it as my working #42 just under Crusher Blackwell & Sheik Adnan Kaissey vs. Baron Von Raschke & Mad Dog Vachon (Taped Fist Match) (3/13/83). You guys weren't a lot of help, and then I actually droned you out for a while by listening to Aldo Nova on youtube. Ok DVDVR is back: Apparently I thought that there were some sloppy bits but I was able to connect the dots in a way that I bought it when I didn't in the Warriors match. I had high hopes for the Superstar match and I liked everything they did but there just wasn't enough of it. The work was all a means to the end of getting to the postmatch. On a set like this, it doesn't go that far. How much Superstar/Murdoch do we actually have? On the disc I had: 4. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (2/7/85) 5. Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito vs. The Fabulous Ones (9/30/84) 9. Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito vs. Curt & Larry Hennig (11/8/84) 10. Crusher Blackwell vs. Masked Superstar (3/7/85) 11. Crusher Blackwell vs. Bruiser Brody (9/30/84) 12. Crusher Blackwell vs. Bruiser Brody (No DQ) (10/21/84) 13. Crusher Blackwell & King Kong Bundy vs. The Road Warriors (11/22/84) But I was watching a ton of Olympics and not sleeping due to the new new born when I was watching those or something, so I know my ranking at the time was a blur. That said, I think that Bock vs Hennig might be another example of a match that doesn't do so well in this format. On the other hand, watching Blackwell eat offense and do his stoic frozen fat man comebacks seem to be more fun to watch in a group. Actually, Will's going to save me from rewatching the Bundy match by agreeing with how I feel about it, so thanks for that.

This is going to get me through the first few hours of tomorrow.

I don't know nearly enough about Londos.

I was glad to see your review of the blood bath. I'm looking forward to seeing your thoughts on the 60 minute match and the first and second Rockers/Loverboys cage matches. Since I got out ahead of people, I like seeing people go through the set. Granted, I've enjoyed listening to the podcasts too, so there you go.

Meaningless depth can only help a best of the 80s set whether or not it does much for how much money a promotion takes in.

That's one great thing about WWF. There are just so many matches with so many talented guys. Yeah, it was sort of an environment set up to fail, but you'll get random stuff like an 18 minute PTW Harley Race vs Koko Ware match that means nothing but is still tons of fun.

Dylan and I got in there real quick on those posts. We shaped the arguments!

I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't a bunch of pretty good 86-89 PTW/MSG/Boston/MLG/etc. matches with him too. There are a bunch of Beefcake and Muraco matches sure, but there's a Jake match here and a Tito match there. A Davey Boy match. A couple of Blue Blazer matches. Etc. I might watch some stuff.

The roll up is what has me confused. That's a really strange decision.

I was kind of disappointed that there wasn't a standout Long Riders match. I like Bill Irwin at times.

Everyone has to go watch that Flame shooting Bob Armstrong thing. And maybe even cooler are clips of Heel Bob.

I will say something in general about face vs face matches though. If something tells a good enough story and a compelling enough story, I don't think you need nastiness. There are narratives that don't necessarily involve wrestlers being nasty. They can be good and compelling, so long as the wrestlers are trying to win. I think the idea that a match innately needs hate to be good is very dismissive. This goes back to my argument about violence or blood or whatever else. Hate is a tool in telling a good story, not an end in and of itself.

Man, that was a MUCH better shout out than last time. I don't even think I'm going to weigh in on Brad vs Martel then. That bought my neutrality. Wow. Will really detests Canadians huh? He's the Zeb Coulter of podcasts. I'm going to picture him with Dutch Mantell's giant mustache from now on. Also, while I agree that neutered heel Mr. Perfect is a shade of what we see here, Hennig has some pretty solid heel matches in AWA and his 93 face run in WWF is actually pretty great as a face. The Doink series of three matches, the Hart tag vs Luger/Ramon, the Bret match at KOTR, the fun six elimination man with Jannety/Tatanka vs Michaels/Diesel/Bam Bam. Granted, he had pretty lackluster matches vs Michaels.

I think I like the Russians way more than the Warriors, but I hate Nikita and Ivan squashes because they last forever. I suppose that makes me a nuanced commie. Anyway, Brody sucks and the Warriors match pretty much sucks (The High Flyers vs Warriors match is actually pretty good). I like that first tag a lot because it has lots of faces trying to cheat and fail and when they succeed it's a big deal. Larry Hennig pretty much sucks in 1984 too.

Tatsu is learning to play the guitar.

Are they turning Jericho on Ryback tonight?

ha I love the idea that Henry wrestles Khali at mania just to see Dylan explode.

Oh man, that was hilarious.

if they're just a "tad" then that's pretty good for them.

Heeeeey, It's a PPV. Obviously, everything's coming up Johnny.

Never before has a chinlock based match been more necessary.

I am so impressed with how they lay out Shield matches. I'm not sure I've ever seen this level of detail with WWE in packaging character through in-ring work. They really play up, through the ringwork, how the Shield is able to outnumber and isolate. The way that they won that match because Sheamus was out, SOLELY because Sheamus was taken out, was brilliant. It's such a little thing but because they do it consistently, it creates a branded overarching theme that is super effective.

I think there's an alternate reality where Cena grew into being an amazing Southern Tag FIP.

They should be able to have a pretty good match though. I mean it's just the opener. Not like it matters. That's your Santana vs The Executioner match. You could do worse.

I would have been vaguely interested in Rhodes Scholars vs Bookdust.