Matt D

Hmmm, I thought he was down to JTTS level, he was in the WM2 battle royal but at the Big Event he jobbed out pretty quickly to Harley Race. I looked it up on Wikipedia, though, and it looks like he made it all the way to the finals of the King Of The Ring that year, so I guess he still had some name value at that point. There's a level above the JTTS. The wrestler who is over but in the midcard. He is not getting pushed. While the JTTS puts over a wrestler in a single match, the next level of wrestler puts the other over in a feud. Usually to set up a feud against a higher wrestler. Thinking of Chief Jay Strongbow in the 1970s, Jake Roberts in the 1980s, Santana in the early '90s. The JTTS match is rarely hyped. Usually it's filler. Sure, I was thinking Morales was a JTTS but on further research he would be more at lower level midcard. You see him getting the IC title shot and deep in your heart of hearts you know he isn't getting the belt but you still cheer for him. Sort of like when the British Bulldogs were getting the title shots against Demoliton as they were winding down their run. With the JTTS, the ending is just a foregone conclusion and that's it. Difference is that Bulldogs got at least a tiny TV angle against Demos.

That's pretty much what I'm talking about. Though the other one is on the LENGTH of the reign, which was set in stone from the beginning too. So now Bix can come in and debunk or confirm to the best of his knowledge.

You have to admit the idea that Graham would WANT to turn makes some sense, but he would have never gotten past the wall of... Wait, is(are) Vince Sr's promise(s) to Backlund true?

I think he was gone soon after the whole Earthquake/Bravo vs Hogan/Tugboat feud. I don't remember him being around much in 1991. He came back shortly in 1992 (during European tours I think) having one really good match with Bret Hart in Germany, and was not hired back. Odd he never tried his hand at WCW, but he probably didn't had any connection, as the Rougeaus and Martel worked in WWF at the time. I always thought his push was due to Patterson, no?

I find the early 90s Freebirds pretty fascinating, in how they were booked, how many chances they were given, the fact both Hayes and Garvin were pretty smart guys when it came to psychology and wrestling in general so they couldn't be COMPLETELY deluded, the music video/live performance disaster, the match vs the Dynamic Dudes where they were hugely cheered, Badstreet/Fantasia, Big Daddy Dink, Precious as the behind the scenes GM, the weirdness with the late Johnny B Badd match, JR's complete and utter lack of caring when Jimmy Garvin was announced as the mystery Freebird. It's a three year trainwreck basically.

I'm watching this period right now, and yes, the RnR's offense does look dated compared to the new blowjob tag teams of Dynamic Dudes, Zenk & Pillman and Southern Boys. But they are still an excellent working team despite the lack of new exciting offense. And the double dropkick was still over when they did it, so it shows that everything is perception. That said, I would have loved to get the Rockers thrown in this mix, opposing Doom and the MX. Looking back, and especially how over the MX were as faces, I would have really liked to see RnR turn heel at that point, annoyed with the fans cheering the Midnights.

I think at the time, Foley would have felt like a disappointment too. I was there live that night and anything less of a surprise/reveal than Jake would have been disappointing. http://www.oocities.org/joziejones/hpall62.html amusing thing google dragged up.

And it was better than, let's say Duggan's running clothesline out of the three point stance (because he used clotheslines throughout the match), but that was super over. Neither here nor there, but I felt bad for the RnRs when they came back in 90, because they were still using the Double Dropkick. Well and good except for the fact that as opposed to 1985, every babyface team had that as just a regular move. The Dynamic Dudes were doing it in the middle of a match. THAT hurt things.

Oh the move was a killer in 87-88. It was a match ender. When Hogan or Warrior kicked out of it in 90, that was the first time I remember that happening.

If the move is protected and no one else is using it, it's fine. Big Show's deadliest move right now is a punch, and it's protected like no one's business. Hell Cena's finish is an overglorified fireman's carry takeover. Henry's is just picking up the guy and falling on them, basically. It's all in the presentation. In WWE neither DDTs or Pile Drivers matter in the least.

That match is the worst. I always forget how bad it is and have to watch it now and again to remind myself. I actually like the finish a lot in theory, but it's just a terrible terrible 3 minute match. I guess the way the match is laid out isn't terrible, to be honest (Bravo attacks at the bell while Kerry is getting his coat off, gets a lot of offense in early, Kerry comes back. Dino blocks the claw, hits the side slam. Kerry kicks out. Dino goes up to the second rope in desperation. Kerry catches him in the claw, hits the discus punch, match), but the execution sure as hell is the drizzling shits. Wretched punches. Weak chops. Both the worst atomic drop AND inverted atomic drops. Lame head slams into the apron. The blocked claw sequence looking miserable. Kerry backing up six steps for no reason so he can get clotheslined over the top. The worst. And yes, not only did Bravo lose that match but Kerry also kicked out of his finish.

I listen to anyone's BS and I still tend to avoid Mike Graham.

Demolition was awesome at.... Oh, wait you mean TODAY. Nevermind.

My wildly unreliable source is the Matt Borne shoot but he basically blames the downfall of Portland on Buddy leaving and giving Rip Oliver the book. Is there anyone who would know more concrete dates? Does Dutch Savage answer questions still?

Tito over DiBiase in 88-89 would have been a big deal, not so much in 1992. Ted had been doing the same thing for going on five years at that point. He was long removed from doing anything in the main event, and long removed from any high profile angles. He was the first person turfed from the Royal Rumble that year. Tito over Ted breaks Tito's long running WrestleMania losing streak, but Ted didn't exactly the most stellar 'Mania streak himself. He won two matches at 4 and lost in the finals, DCOR with Brutus Beefcake at 5, beat Jake by COR at 6, and wasn't even on 7. Waiiiit a sec. He wrestled Virgil at 7

I was a big Tito fan as a kid, so when Razor came in I thought he was saying "Tito" and wanted to know why he wanted to get him so badly.

BUT it has this AMAZING moment where Sherri totally changes her tune as Tito recovers and comes towards her and she goes ... "I'VE ALWAYS LIKED YOU!" or something like that.

Re: Tito in 91-92. Becoming El Matador had one really important end result to Tito in ring. Before 88 or so, Tito used the figure four as a viable finisher and the Flying Forearm could work as a transition/comeback move or a set up move. After that, when he wasn't using the figure four, so many of the matches where he would lose would let him keep his heat somewhat by hitting the forearm, but having the heel too close to the ropes in one way or another. As a 10 year old, I knew the second that would happen, that he would lose the match. After becoming El Matador, however, he gained el paso de la muerte.(do I have that right?) and past looking cool, it meant that his match structures became just a little more unpredictable. Trust me, as a kid it really made his matches more exciting.

Al Issacs' Scoops?

There are a few things in Tito's favor. Vince knew he was loyal. Vince knew he was capable. Vince knew he was reliable. He wasn't about to end up arrested in a car with Razor Ramon (or whoever else he feuded with in 92). He had a reputation of being a family man and not a big party/drug guy. Apparently, the Matador gimmick was supposed to be part of a bigger push than he actually ended up with (Tito went to a decent amount of trouble to learn the gimmick). I'm not sure it mattered but he could also be a guy that Flair might have put forth (as he had with Windham just a year before), though it's not like he had a lot of leverage in the situation. I'm not saying that I believe it, but I think there are more outlandish stories out there.

I can't tell if this is a subtle troll, or a serious issue you want to delve into. Then obviously I'm doing something right. No, I'm serious. He had the book when Portland was really hot in the early 80s right? And one aspect of Portland (much like Memphis) was a weekly show in the same place every Saturday night, which seems like one of the hardest things in the world to pull off successfully. One of the reasons guys liked the territory was that less travel was necessary than in other places, so they had a smaller loop but still drew money. He did this with what I sort of feel is a weaker talent pool, top to bottom than Memphis, with less turnover of talent to keep things fresh. He's also booking HIMSELF at this time, so he has to be relatively selfless about that. And when he left Rip Oliver took over and things sort of fizzled out?

I don't, but I do buy the "Gino had way more money than he ought to have had." mindset

I though the story was that they were going to bring Hart, Adams, Gino in as a unit?

I don't think we talk about Buddy's booking enough.

Gino was supposed to be part of the rat pack instead of Borne.