Matt D

Yeah but Punk jobbing wasn't a big deal because he had Miz up for the G2S and that was the debut of "Little Jimmy's Finale" so it was a big visual moment (the way the Miz slipped the full nelson on so smoothly out of the fireman's carry helped). And thanks Tom. I was wondering what it was past the booking.

Tom, Excuse my ignorance but as no one is just a giant fucking draw magically, what elements do you think made Mistico a giant fucking draw?

I could see Dixie being delusional and thinking some of the stuff that is out really wasn't?

In the old WWF, guys were married to each other for 6 months+. It was the same house show pairing night after night after night. The big appeal of the Rumble in my mind was to see guys who don't usually interact, interact with one another. Even in Battle Royales, you wouldn't see it as much because guys could just square off against who they were paired with. The staggered entry of the Rumble made things a little more open. It's not as big of an issue now.

I think my main problem is that I've been watching SO much 80 Memphis, 85 NWA (though the Saturday Night crowd had some bad elements even then) and 85 Mid-South... somewhere around 10 shows a week in total, that watching a 2011 studio audience is soul crushing. The fact that Husky is over with them in what seems to be a mostly earnest, non-ironic way is a HUGE testament to him.

If we're judging this on FCW, can we go with Husky Harris. He's been on fire there lately (and seems just about the only guy honestly over with the irritating crowd).

It was weird because in the radio interviews last week, it didn't sound like Hogan had all that much creative power.

Can you have a Ric Flair without an NWA? 2007 John Cena World Wrestling Entertainment 2008 Chris Jericho World Wrestling Entertainment 2009 Chris Jericho World Wrestling Entertainment 2010 John Cena World Wrestling Entertainment i think Punk deserves it as much as Jericho did for those years, and in 2010, wouldn't it have been more the Hulk Hogan Award than the Ric Flair one?

Well isn't a lot of that issue because no one's drawing? On some level, I don't care if people are drawing or not so long as I like what they're doing in the ring and on the mic. I mean I'm not going to get depressed over the fact that I can't pick someone who'd fit into that role. Christian's had a great year. Not as good as his 09, sure but still really solid. Hell, Orton's had a great year too. And Mark Henry! Absolutely. But Smackdown's not drawing at all.

Do we count Punk as a draw in that he bolstered a C-Level PPV to a higher rate than it would have been otherwise? I'd love to say Christian but SD wasn't exactly drawing. Could, hypothetically, the RnR count as Wrestler of the year in 84 Mid South because even though they weren't booked "on top" necessarily, not in the main vents, they still popped the territory?

can hogan even physically lay down now? I think he might be a Ding Dong/hunchback now.

I really feel like Vince has gone out of his way to make sure no one's over in their home town ever since.

I picture Vince yelling at grey-haired Billy Kidman, who had been looking at his watch carefully, asking him who the hell Rob Naylor is and Kidman shrugging and doing his Al Wilson impression which Vince somehow loves.

I guess it's silly at this point but what are some examples of Flair matches with great storytelling throughout/smart working? Not because I think they don't exist, but because there's a lot of stuff I still haven't seen and I'd like to see it. The best I can think of off the top of my head are some Flair vs underdog matches where he underestimates the young lion babyface, who gets some offense until flair gets mad.

I just love the idea of someone trying to explain Rob Naylor to Vince.

That seems like something that should have been in Bret's book considering how amazingly detailed it was, but I honestly don't remember.

This place is an Asterisk. Or the opposition backbenchers.

Actually, there are some positive numbers for Taker. It's a mixed bag at times, and since he's been around forever there it's as easy to find bad numbers as good ones. But there are good ones. That Taker vs Taker thing did a surprising number. Rumble '96 did good business, and I've always thought Bret-Taker (with the Nash aspect of the feud) playing a role in it as much as the Rumble and Shawn's vaunted return (it's not like he was out that long). After a certain point, how much credit do we give to Taker for Manias that drew. I know he main evented XIII and that didn't go so well but the Taker/Kane feud was a big part of the lead up to XIV. He had a high profile match at XVII. And XXI as well with Randy where they really started to play up the streak. As for Kurt I still think it's a combo of the legitimacy thing that pros can't get enough of because it's carny as hell and the fact that Angle does this all out action style that Dave's always loved.

I think HHH is the guy who comes off the worst in Bret's book, actually.

After that I'm vowing not to watch a single ECW match for the next year.* Someone remind me of that on 10/10/12. *unless it has Tracy Smothers or Tommy Rich. Let's be serious here.

Just curious, what consensus HAVE we(I don't think I can really include myself in there, but I am a poster here, so...) changed?

I don't think it's JUST overexposure with Flair, though that's a part of it, but also changing tastes. People value things they didn't value in years past and they don't value some things as much as they used to. And I think some of that affects Flair as much (if slightly differently) as it affects someone like Sayama or Benoit.

I will say that sometimes I'll see a Flair match like the one vs Hack Sawyer in Portland which shows me something different and I get excited about that.

There are actually a ton of Dory tags that I wish were taped. Tito and Flair are definitely interesting cases since both of them have certain rigid thoughts about what a match should be. Tito felt strongly that he should outwrestle the heel at the beginning, the heel should cheat to get over him and then cheat to stay on top during the heat segment, and then he should have his comeback leading to the finish. That's not exactly rocket science but he didn't want the heel to be able to keep up with him wrestling wise in the shine segment, for instance. But yeah, Tito has tons of great matches, included some stuff that hasn't been seen as much like Tito vs Windham in 89 and a couple of Tito vs Harley matches I really need to see at some point.

How was Eadie in AWA? I haven't seen enough of his higher profile GCW stuff either, just jobber matches.