The Ultimate Heel

[rainmakerrtv]

Inspired by JVK's recent Best Babyface post, I figured we could dig into what makes a great heel (I apologize if this has been discussed before). There are a lot of different styles of heel, but what are the common qualities that define being a great heel?

 

I've said this before in a thread on DVDVR, but I feel that the official best heel of all time is Arn Anderson. The reason being that he could intimidate as a tough asskicker *and* he could pussy out like a chickenshit coward, all within the same match, and it always had credibility and it always made sense. I believe that a purely tough heel can work, but as Lars Frederiksen pointed out in a Good Will Wrestling podcast, one of the problems today is that everybody is trying to be the tough guy heel. They all want to get away with whatever they want, but nobody wants to show "weakness". The wrestling world could use a few more Arn Andersons right now.

 

Edit : Adding JerryvonKramer's guidelines.

Breaking It Down 3: Best Heels

Ok, so much like the faces thread, I want to breakdown what the heel does in the match and then work out who does what best.

 

The categories this time I'd say are:

 

Working the crowd

 

Best Offence (heat segment)

 

Best selling

 

Best "bump and grind" (i.e. selling of face's comeback, knocked down, get up, knocked down, get up, etc.)

 

Best at calling it in the ring

 

The heel categories are a bit looser than the babyface ones, so let me know any I've missed

[El-P]

I've got two :

 

Jake Roberts

Raven

 

Can't think of more perverted, sick and unlikable characters. Raven was even worse in that he was a complete whiner, could be a tough guy but choosed to hide behing stooges and women. Could work some comedy without turning into complete ga-ga.

 

Randy Savage was pretty much a terrific heel also.

And Steve Austin circa 96-97 has to be somehwre on top.

[Loss]

In terms of understanding his own role, making people who were pretty limited look great, taking great bumps, having a strong formula, feeding a comeback, doing promos, getting heat and selling his ass off while maintaining his own credibility, Rick Rude is my pick.

[Loss]

I would disagree with Lars. I think his point is right ... when talking about wrestling in the early part of the 2000s, but not now. The bigger problem is that heels aren't allowed to look good for any length of time and maintain heat. A babyface can likely overcome even Steven booking because they're constantly getting their wins back, but heels who are constantly shown up are going to struggle to stay over.

[JerryvonKramer]

Oh, someone has made my third thread already. I had it all typed up in Notepad ready to post. Might as well put it here:

 

Breaking It Down 3: Best Heels

 

Ok, so much like the faces thread, I want to breakdown what the heel does in the match and then work out who does what best.

 

The categories this time I'd say are:

 

Working the crowd

 

Best Offence (heat segment)

 

Best selling

 

Best "bump and grind" (i.e. selling of face's comeback, knocked down, get up, knocked down, get up, etc.)

 

Best at calling it in the ring

 

The heel categories are a bit looser than the babyface ones, so let me know any I've missed.

[Loss]

We have no way to judge calling it in the ring, because we don't know which matches are laid out in advance and which ones aren't. That's also something that may not fully be in the control of the performer, and could vary by territory or era.

 

I agree on all the rest.

[Kostka]

What makes a great heel? Two words: Tully Blanchard

[rainmakerrtv]

What makes a great heel? Two words: Tully Blanchard

I wanted to slap that little so and so in the face every time he showed up on TV, so, yeah ...

[rainmakerrtv]

Oh, someone has made my third thread already. I had it all typed up in Notepad ready to post. Might as well put it here:

Crap. Sorry, Jerry.

[Kostka]

Monster Heel should have it's own category too, as the make-up of a monster heel is different than any other kind of heel. Stan Hansen would get my vote there.

[Loss]

I will mention that I love tag teams of monster heels and undersized heels, where the smaller heel ends up talking them into trouble and then hiding behind the monster. Mark Henry needs a sniveling, motormouthed runt of a sometimes tag team partner yesterday!

[El-P]

Yeah Tully Blanchard & Rick Rude are certainly up there.

 

When you think of Japan : Dump Matsumoto. She was just HEAT personified. And in the same vein, Mr. Pogo was a great heel. Sadistic, cruel, would milk and tease the gimmick bumps to death (instead of say, running through them without thoughts which has been the case of 99% of the garbage workers since then), would show toughness but also get his ass kicked. Pogo was awesome.

 

Greatest "workrate" monster heels ever : Vader, Aja, Bull.

 

As far as wanting to be a tough heel, well, the posterboy for it is HHH. The guy just doesn't get what to be a heel is. If Bret hart took his character too seriously, then what to say about old Paul ?

[Loss]

Yeah, Dump Matsumoto is the greatest heel of all time. When your counter to a side headlock is to cut your opponent's hair until they let you go, you immediately win.

[Kostka]

Group: Admins

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I will mention that I love tag teams of monster heels and undersized heels, where the smaller heels ends up talking them into trouble and then hiding behind the monster. Mark Henry needs a sniveling, motormouthed runt of a sometimes tag team partner yesterday!

I thought the ADR/Brodus Clay pairing really captured that, especially on house shows. Total Rude/Bundy vibe.

 

Best example of it in recent years though, was the Jericho/Big Show pairing.

[Loss]

Fuerza Guerrera should be mentioned too. Constantly being in the wrong place at the wrong time, being completely willing to make himself look like the biggest fool on the planet and pretending to not be able to execute big moves that his opponents have tried to more strongly put over their athleticism in contrast are some of his staples, and they're great. I don't think he's quite at the top level because I could never buy him as credible, but for pure entertainment value, he's one of the best.

[Marty]

I don't know if I'd vote him the greatest due to a lack of longevity (unlike a guy like Rude) but I figure in this thread 1993 Doink deserves a mention.

[JerryvonKramer]

Oh, someone has made my third thread already. I had it all typed up in Notepad ready to post. Might as well put it here:

Crap. Sorry, Jerry.

 

No problem. Maybe you could quote my post in the OP as it gives people a framework around which to think about what a heel does in the typical match.

 

I'm glad Rick Rude is getting a lot of love here. He excels certainly in working the crowd.

 

However, I wonder if Rude's shortcomings as a worker are sometimes underplayed? He was one guy who I'd accuse of actually doing a resthold rather than a proper submission -- and always the chinlock.

 

Sure, he had great matches with Warrior, and one of my all-time favourite matches with Steamboat, but other times he can be disappointing. His match with Flair is poor by any standard. His matches with Sting aren't that great. And the matches with Jake Roberts are more memorable for the fued than what happened in the ring.

 

That's not to say he wasn't a great heel, he was undoubtedly. His heat was off-the-charts, especially in WCW (see Superbrawl II pre-match promo), but all-time best heel? Did Rude have great pyschology? Was he really the best at selling or bumping and feeding? Did he pace matches perfectly? I'm not entirely convinced he did.

 

I know we've been over this before, but someone explain to me why we've had several people name Rude already, but no one has mentioned DiBiase?

 

What did Rude do better than Ted?

[Loss]

Rude is strange in that he was solid in the ring pretty early, but didn't really put the whole package together as a persona until the Jake feud ... when his in-ring dropped off for some reason. Then he got good again in the Warrior feud and really went to the next level when he cut his hair. By the last quarter of 1992 or so, it was obvious he was working hurt and he was never really at the same level again, even if he had the occasional good match.

 

So maybe you could say Rude hit his peak as an all around performer from August 1989 - August 1992. I like some of the Rude/Dustin matches in '93, but they aren't at the level they would have been a year earlier because Rude seemed to be working through some pretty bad injuries. So when I praise Rude, that's the period I'm talking about. I agree that the Flair matches are disappointing.

 

I definitely don't think Rude is the best heel of all time, and he's probably not even in the top handful, but had he sustained his peak longer, he would be in the discussion. Replacing Flair as the top heel in WCW was really fighting a losing battle considering how badly the audience wanted Flair back in the company, but Rude seemed fresh enough in that role that I would argue even if Flair was still around, the time was right to give Rude a bigger spotlight and keep Flair strong, but slowly move him out of the top heel spot.

 

Sting/Rude, while there's not that defining match, had its moments. The Clash match where Rude won the U.S. title is too short to be considered "great", but I always thought that was about as good as a match of that length with that storyline could be, and it was executed in pretty terrific fashion. The Clash match one year later really disappointed me when I watched it recently, although I remembered loving it. They never really had that singles match on PPV in 1992 for the world title, and had they, we might have seen a better match. There is a handheld of a house show match between them that I've never taken the time to watch.

 

You mentioned DiBiase. DiBiase was an excellent heel too, and someone I'd probably rank above Rude just because he had more years as a top performer. Both are guys that reinvented themselves at the right times. DiBiase's best matches looked better at the time, while I think Rude's best matches look better now. I don't think DiBiase was a particularly "good" promo, but he was an effective one. Still, the argument against DiBiase is the same one it's always been -- where are the great matches? This may prompt goodhelmet to come in and talk about how he never saw DiBiase as a great wrestler, but rather as a great brawler, and surely the all stips match with Duggan will be brought up to point to that. But I think that's a bit of a copout, because DiBiase isn't talked about in the same breath as Hansen, Brody and Cactus Jack. He's considered more in the Flair/Windham/Michaels mold, and I think he falls short by that standard. I'm not sure what DiBiase has that isn't gimmicked to death that can touch Rude's amazing carry job of Warrior at Summerslam '89, or Rude's strong matches against Chono and Steamboat in '92. For that matter, I'm not sure what I'd point to for DiBiase that compares nicely to the TV matches Rude had with Pillman and Dustin in '92.

 

Four matches that would make an interesting comp in that vein:

 

* DiBiase vs Shawn from Hottest Matches

* DiBiase vs Bret from '89

* Rude vs Pillman from Pro in '92

* Rude vs Dustin from Worldwide in '92

 

Top heel vs perfectly capable midcard babyface, given a nice amount of time to put together a good match. All matches are really well-regarded, and it would make an interesting comparison.

[Loss]

It should also be mentioned that I can't recall Rude sitting in a chinlock very often, if at all. The camel clutch was his "resthold" of choice more often than not.

 

Side tangent: We've been through this before, but I look at resthold as a derogatory term, and I try to stay away from it. Wrestling would be better off now if fans were educated on holds and trained to pop for them. Restholds do exist, but if something serves a positive purpose in the course of a wrestling match, I don't agree with calling it a resthold. Laying on the mat and not doing anything does stink, but I think it's oversimplifying to immediately call anyone going to a reverse chinlock someone applying a resthold. (Not directed at you specifically, Jerry, more one of my many frustrations with how Scott Keith has influenced online opinion.)

[Ricky Jackson]

Lately, I've really been into late-70s/early-80s Greg Valentine. Some of the best heel facials ever (asshole smirk), always sadistically working on the leg, and a perfect foil for a squeaky clean babyface like a Backlund, Santana, Steamboat, etc. Not the best heel ever or anything, but definitely someone you "loved to hate".

 

I agree with many who have already been mentioned like Savage, Austin, Roberts, Raven, Rude. Off the top of my head I would add pre-86 Piper, Ole Anderson, and for sentimental reasons (but also because I truly hated him when I was 9 years old) Makhan Singh.

[JerryvonKramer]

It should also be mentioned that I can't recall Rude sitting in a chinlock very often, if at all. The camel clutch was his "resthold" of choice more often than not.

 

Side tangent: We've been through this before, but I look at resthold as a derogatory term, and I try to stay away from it. Wrestling would be better off now if fans were educated on holds and trained to pop for them. Restholds do exist, but if something serves a positive purpose in the course of a wrestling match, I don't agree with calling it a resthold. Laying on the mat and not doing anything does stink, but I think it's oversimplifying to immediately call anyone going to a reverse chinlock someone applying a resthold. (Not directed at you specifically, Jerry, more one of my many frustrations with how Scott Keith has influenced online opinion.)

I totally agree with you in general Loss, what I'm saying is that Rude IS ONE GUY who seemed guilty of doing actual restholds. You're right, often a camel clutch. But one that seemed lazy and like he was taking 5 minutes rather than really cranking it.

 

Other than him though, yip, it's one of my pet peeves too and I've ragged on Keith MANY times for shitting on perfectly legitimate submission holds / matwork because in his warped mind they are all restholds.

[Gregor]

Eddie Guerrero around 1997 struck me as almost a perfect heel. He could be vicious (his match with Mysterio) or hilariously pathetic (he'd try to sneak up behind the face for a cheap shot and then act like he was going for a handshake as soon as his opponent turned around), and none of it seemed out of place. Obviously the matches were good.

 

If he had a weak spot, it was his promos. By his 2005 heel run, he was very, very good on the microphone, but I don't remember him doing the comedy spots that he was doing in WCW. Not that I have a problem with that - it's just that I brought up 1997 as a time when he was doing pretty much everything and doing it well.

[Kostka]

It should also be mentioned that I can't recall Rude sitting in a chinlock very often, if at all. The camel clutch was his "resthold" of choice more often than not.

 

Side tangent: We've been through this before, but I look at resthold as a derogatory term, and I try to stay away from it. Wrestling would be better off now if fans were educated on holds and trained to pop for them. Restholds do exist, but if something serves a positive purpose in the course of a wrestling match, I don't agree with calling it a resthold. Laying on the mat and not doing anything does stink, but I think it's oversimplifying to immediately call anyone going to a reverse chinlock someone applying a resthold. (Not directed at you specifically, Jerry, more one of my many frustrations with how Scott Keith has influenced online opinion.)

I totally agree with you in general Loss, what I'm saying is that Rude IS ONE GUY who seemed guilty of doing actual restholds. You're right, often a camel clutch. But one that seemed lazy and like he was taking 5 minutes rather than really cranking it.

 

Other than him though, yip, it's one of my pet peeves too and I've ragged on Keith MANY times for shitting on perfectly legitimate submission holds / matwork because in his warped mind they are all restholds.

 

It's definitely a valid knock on Rude. Rude vs Iceman Parsons 2/3 falls from World Class was a chore to sit through for similar reasons. One thing I can say though, is the size of Rudes arms made me buy them as more damaging than your every mans camel clutch.

[Coffey]

I would probably go with Adrian Adonis. I always saw people like Rude as "cool" heels, like nWo-style heels. The first person that came to mind was "Hollywood" Hulk Hogan because he went from being the biggest babyface ever to the biggest heel in wrestling, which is pretty significant. It's just his body of work doesn't hold up. Especially with the WCW booking and "creative control" shit, leading to events like the Starrcade finish with Sting and Bret Hart and Nick Patrick.

 

Adonis could go, even when he ballooned up. I actually liked him a lot when he ballooned up because it made you hate his "pretty boy" gimmick even more. There was a show I saw where he came out with an oxygen mask and the commentators played it up as him only wanting to breathe the air from his hometown and not from the shitty city he was in. That's great.

 

Actually, although they weren't wrestlers, Slick & Bobby Heenan were great, great heels.

[El-P]

The first person that came to mind was "Hollywood" Hulk Hogan because he went from being the biggest babyface ever to the biggest heel in wrestling, which is pretty significant. It's just his body of work doesn't hold up.

I never thought Hogan was a cool heel. Nash & Hall were always trying to get some face reactions by being cool wise guys, whereas Hogan was going full fledge classic heel in interviews. At least that's how it came off to me. Plus I really enjoyed Hogan's first few big matches as a heel, it was a lot more fun to me than any face Hogan's match. Hogan vs Savage from Halloween Havoc 96, Hogan vs Piper from Starrcade 96, Hogan & Rodman vs Luger & Giant from BatB 97, all those were really fun heel Hogan matches.