NintendoLogic Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Another way to look at this would be who achieved greatness the quickest. The usual suspects here are guys like Jumbo, Angle, and Akiyama. Conversely, who took the longest to "get it?" Rick Rude's already been mentioned, but how about Triple H? He debuted in 1992, and he didn't really hit his stride until 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 To me Triple H peaked in 1997. Angle peaked early, but he was never a super worker to me. Still, goofy Angle from 2000 beats the hell out of Super Serious Workrate Angle from the rest of his career. Owen got great super quick. AKINO (female wrestler from ARSION) got great super quick. Hiromi Yagi (female wrestler from JWP) got great rather quick. Tenryu... not so much. Peaked late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is a difficult question to answer as there isn't enough footage for most of my favourite workers, but Tenryu, Austin and Hart strike me as guys who were pretty average pre-peak. A lot of AJW workers got good early, perhaps as a result of mandatory retirement but more likely due to training and background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 This won't be a popular answer with hardly anyone, but the answer may be.... Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty. I guess some people would rate Jannetty's peak as his run with the Rockers, but I actually think he showed the most in 95 when he was sort of freelancing around having impressive lengthy matches v. guys like Snow and Douglas. Michaels is tougher because I actually think his peak probably was 86-88 with the Rockers, but hardly anyone else would agree with me. I still am a fan of a lot of Michaels 90's work and I would guess his peak would be defined as 94-97 or perhaps WM X - Hell In A Cell. To me his "pre-peak" featured a lot of really great matches and performances from Michaels who at the time was a far more professional performer as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chess Knight Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 When was Finlay's peak? 2006? He looked amazing in some cases in 1996/1998 but only got little time by WCW to work his stuff. He was pretty consistantly great and wherever his peak is there's great stuff before it. Worst pre-peak wrestler may be Bret Hart. I might only be thinking of him becaue of how good his peak actually was, but the Hart Foundation weren't THAT great a team and Bret's singles stuff didn't seem to get good before 1991 unless he had an opponent like Ricky Steamboat or Randy Savage. I remember loving the 89 match with Hennig though. Misawa maybe? Guy never sucked but his calling in life obviously wasn't to play Tiger Mask. Another way to look at this would be who achieved greatness the quickest. The usual suspects here are guys like Jumbo, Angle, and Akiyama. Conversely, who took the longest to "get it?" Rick Rude's already been mentioned, but how about Triple H? He debuted in 1992, and he didn't really hit his stride until 2000. -I've always thought Mick Foley looked good really early. -Dustin Rhodes a few years into his career. -Arn Anderson debuted in 82 and was looking really good by 85. He's actually another shout for best pre-peak worker if you share the thoughts I do and think he peaked in 1992. -There isn't much footage of his early stuff (from what I can tell), but El Hijo del Santo looekd pretty terrific from the get-go. -I'm not 100% sure I agree with Dylan on Michaels peaking in the 80s, but he definitely got it early. -Vader was awesome a few years in. -I like Austin a ton after mid-92. He's got a lot of good before that as well but looked a little below everyone else he was working with before WarGames 92 or so. Peaked like a decade after but yeah, I like WCW Austin. On the other side I have a tough time *truly* enjoying most Eddy Guerrero before his 97 heel turn. Watched a shit ton of WCW in 2011 and by the end I had little interest in watching anything that babyface Eddy had to offer. Thank God he became the babyface he did by 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 This won't be a popular answer with hardly anyone, but the answer may be.... Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty. I guess some people would rate Jannetty's peak as his run with the Rockers, but I actually think he showed the most in 95 when he was sort of freelancing around having impressive lengthy matches v. guys like Snow and Douglas. Michaels is tougher because I actually think his peak probably was 86-88 with the Rockers, but hardly anyone else would agree with me. I still am a fan of a lot of Michaels 90's work and I would guess his peak would be defined as 94-97 or perhaps WM X - Hell In A Cell. To me his "pre-peak" featured a lot of really great matches and performances from Michaels who at the time was a far more professional performer as well. Honestly, I don't know if he was professional so much as he didn't have the clout to get his way and express himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 He definitely would treat some jobbers unprofessionally (who didn't back then really?) but watching a lot of Michaels from that era in the last couple of years I really think the big difference is that EVEN IF he was as big a douche then as he would later become you never really got the sense that it effected his matches. I have seen one match where he appears to get pissed at a jobber and Steiners him which is shitty. But nothing like the spot in MindGames (it was a work! yeah right), or the bit with Vader, or him acting out and being a crybaby during the match with Sid, et. There was nothing senseless that dragged his performances down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Also Michaels had much better looking punches and offense back then and sold far better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 When was Finlay's peak? 2006? He looked amazing in some cases in 1996/1998 but only got little time by WCW to work his stuff. He was pretty consistantly great and wherever his peak is there's great stuff before it. -I've always thought Mick Foley looked good really early. -Dustin Rhodes a few years into his career. -Arn Anderson debuted in 82 and was looking really good by 85. He's actually another shout for best pre-peak worker if you share the thoughts I do and think he peaked in 1992. Finlay is an interesting one. I have Will's Finlay Set but I haven't watched the whole thing yet. I have a feeling he is going to be a guy where the peak is difficult to pinpoint. May be a case of a guy with "two peaks." I thought about mentioning Foley earlier, but the thing is I tend to think the "early" period a lot of people would point to for Foley WAS his peak. The 89-92 period has lots of good stuff, but nothing that is really other worldly. To me he really picks up in 93. His peak was probably 94-96. I get the feeling a lot of people would rate his peak as 96-98 but I'm not convinced of it. Dustin is touch because he started off pretty damn good with very limited opportunities and as soon as he got any real chances in 91 he was awesome. So the question is how do you measure his really strong performances in limited roles (v. Dibiase ten minute challenge for example)? Arn was incredible in 92 and I believe that was his "peak year." On the other hand I don't know that I would isolate that one year. In some ways I think Arn is the most consistent wrestler of all time and I think you could make a case his career from 85-95 was effectively one steady line with a minor dip here or there depending on booking/location (Busters in WWF for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 He definitely would treat some jobbers unprofessionally (who didn't back then really?) but watching a lot of Michaels from that era in the last couple of years I really think the big difference is that EVEN IF he was as big a douche then as he would later become you never really got the sense that it effected his matches. I have seen one match where he appears to get pissed at a jobber and Steiners him which is shitty. But nothing like the spot in MindGames (it was a work! yeah right), or the bit with Vader, or him acting out and being a crybaby during the match with Sid, et. There was nothing senseless that dragged his performances down. What came to mind immediately was his feelings about the MSG Demos match. It's an awesome ten minute match right before their face turn and Eadie especially gives JUST enough. Well, Michaels felt then and has pointed out since that he thinks they didn't sell nearly enough for them, but what the hell is 1988 Shawn Michaels going to do to intimidate Bill Eadie and Barry Darsow. On the other hand in 96 he could (and apparently did) threaten to have Vader fired if he didn't loosen up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 You could probably argue that 2006 was the peak of Finlay's American work, but I think Finlay is similar to Negro Navarro in that his best work has come long after his physical prime. Early WoS Finlay is awesome, but as soon as he hooked up with Princess Paula it took a nose dive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Dustin is touch because he started off pretty damn good with very limited opportunities and as soon as he got any real chances in 91 he was awesome. So the question is how do you measure his really strong performances in limited roles (v. Dibiase ten minute challenge for example)? I've always seen that as a DiBiase carry job. Arn was incredible in 92 and I believe that was his "peak year." On the other hand I don't know that I would isolate that one year. In some ways I think Arn is the most consistent wrestler of all time and I think you could make a case his career from 85-95 was effectively one steady line with a minor dip here or there depending on booking/location (Busters in WWF for example). If the year Arn had in the WWF was the worst of his career, then that's a pretty phenomenal career. The thing with Arn is that he never seemed young even when he was technically a rookie. Like in '85 tagging with Ole, he already seems to be fully developed Arn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I guess some people would rate Jannetty's peak as his run with the Rockers, but I actually think he showed the most in 95 when he was sort of freelancing around having impressive lengthy matches v. guys like Snow and Douglas. I would agree. Jannetty never showed more than during the mid 90's. I would say 93-95 would be a good period to define his peak, including his WWF matches with Michaels (the RAW ones), Doink, the tags with Waltman, the stuff in 95 against Candido & co. Michaels is tougher because I actually think his peak probably was 86-88 with the Rockers, but hardly anyone else would agree with me. I still am a fan of a lot of Michaels 90's work and I would guess his peak would be defined as 94-97 or perhaps WM X - Hell In A Cell. To me his "pre-peak" featured a lot of really great matches and performances from Michaels who at the time was a far more professional performer as well. Well, I haven't seen much of Michaels from this era, but I would put Michaels peak during the Rockers days too actually, in the WWF (friom what I've seen), so it doesn't sound that far fetched to me to consider this. 1996 Michaels is ridiculously overrated, and I'd rather not talk about his comeback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 See, that's the tricky thing. There's a whole host of wrestlers whose working prime came well after their physical prime, and most of them were at least pretty good before that. That's why I tried to rephrase the question and move it in a different direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chess Knight Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Mark Henry was largely average before 2006. Took him like ten years to get real good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Bobby Eaton was pretty damn good in 1980/1 Memphis. I think he was a better promo then than he'd be years later too. See, that's the tricky thing. There's a whole host of wrestlers whose working prime came well after their physical prime, and most of them were at least pretty good before that. That's why I tried to rephrase the question and move it in a different direction. This is because less is more and athleticism is a crutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Bryan Danielson's "pre-peak" ranks in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Mark Henry was largely average before 2006. Took him like ten years to get real good. I thought often at times he was the best thing (or one of the best things) on RAW in 2003-04. Really started hitting his stride during that time. It was 2002 during that face run on Smackdown that he started getting watchable/average. As for the topic at hand, from the stuff I've seen on YouTube from his run in GCW, Terry Gordy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Curt Hennig should be mentioned if he hasn't been already. His work was highly thought of in the AWA until he started seriously climbing the ladder in 85-86. FWIW (not much to me), Meltzer used to point to him as the best wrestler in the company in 1984, when he was being used in the midcard or below. I suppose it depends on when you think his peak was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I think Hennig from 83-88 was great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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