[1994-12-10-AJW-Tag League The Best] Aja Kong & Reggie Bennett vs Kyoko Inoue & Sakie Hasegawa / Manami Toyota & Takako Inoue vs Aja Kong & Reggie Bennett / Manami Toyota & Takako Inoue vs Kyoko Inoue & Sakie Hasegawa

[jdw]

Because Baba's booking started to decline when he got cancer.

 

Oh... wait... batshit crazy explanation for the decline of a different promotion.

 

John

[ohtani's jacket]

You're so full of shit.

[jdw]

I'm not the one who came up with that "All Japan's Booking Went In The Crapper When Baba Got Cancer" crazy ass theory.

 

John

[FLIK]

I can buy that shows being run poorly or just being inconveinyant would be A contributing factor to crowds dipping, i've stoped attending shows myself that I otherwise enjoyed for similar reasons but no way do I think it's a top reason.

 

I just think they ran the well dry. After 2 years of going really heavy with interpromotional mega shows on a monthly/semi monthly basis there was no whear left to go after doing an all day long Tokyo Dome ultra mega super extravaganza.

 

If you look at 95, AJW still ran a lot of major shows in the 4 to 6 hour range but they scaled WAY back on their use of outside talent and mostly focused on their core roster (elevating some ppl who'd been around a while, had a lot of new rookies and Lioness/Bison/Jaguar came out of retirement).

 

Comparing those shows overall tho to what had come the previous 2 years, still a lot of greatness but def not the same quality wise.

 

Had the roster not imploded for financial reasons among other things in late 96 & 97 I think they were on course for bringing things back up from a purely in ring perspective tho.

[ohtani's jacket]

I'm not the one who came up with that "All Japan's Booking Went In The Crapper When Baba Got Cancer" crazy ass theory.

 

John

Thirty reasons why the boom ended. Should be a piece of cake for an authority like you.

[jdw]

You're funny, Daniel.

 

John

[ohtani's jacket]

I can buy that shows being run poorly or just being inconveinyant would be A contributing factor to crowds dipping, i've stoped attending shows myself that I otherwise enjoyed for similar reasons but no way do I think it's a top reason.

The Japanese wikipedia doesn't really say that people missing their trains was a reason for the boom ending. Under the company timeline entry for Big Egg it mentions that the crowd number was disappointing, the show ran long and caused people to miss their trains and that the show as a whole marked the end of the boom period. Since the show was announced so far ahead of time, they had the opportunity to run any number of fresh interpromotional match-ups or book a main or semi-final far more memorable than the V*TOP tournament. What was the point of the V*TOP tournament, to give Hokuto a token win on the way out? If Toyota and Kong hadn't produced such a memorable first round match it would've been a total waste of time. Don't know why they wasted the Kong/Kansai match-up on a meaningless semi-final and all things considered they would have been better off giving Hokuto one last WWWA title shot out of respect instead of the tournament format regardless of how banged up she was.

 

I just think they ran the well dry

I think in terms of this particular show it was scheduled too far ahead of time. On the back of a hot '93, a year or more is a long time to maintain momentum.

[soup23]

2 quick questions on this actual show.

 

1. did this show run head to head with the All Japan show because if so that was two nights in Japan this year (4/16) being the other with two pretty major shows going head to head

 

2. What was the reasoning for the tag pairings for this tournament with the double Inoue's split up?

 

First match finish looks brutal and I wonder if the whole match is any good.

 

Second match was great with Aja looking like a monster stretching out Totyota, Bennett trying really hard, and a beautiful comeback and finish for Toyota. If the first match is good and adds to the story, I say it is a supplement contender since this match is comfortably in my top 100 for the year.

 

Final match is fine but not as good as second match. More spotty but less structure and emotional investment. Even though the beginning sequence between Takano and Kyoko featured no selling it was a nice "partners" face off spot. Good finish to fun night of wrestling.

[FLIK]

2. What was the reasoning for the tag pairings for this tournament with the double Inoue's split up?

AJW loved the heck out of whacky mix matched tag teams when it came tournament time so thear ya go

Pretty much every tag tournament they did they'd always toss in atleast a few random pairings, one of those things you don't give much thought to after a while.

[jdw]

2. What was the reasoning for the tag pairings for this tournament with the double Inoue's split up?

AJW loved the heck out of whacky mix matched tag teams when it came tournament time so thear ya go

Pretty much every tag tournament they did they'd always toss in atleast a few random pairings, one of those things you don't give much thought to after a while.

 

I think most of it was semi-random. The Double Inoues *never* teamed up in the tourney when they were both in it:

 

1991: Kyoko Inoue & Toshiyo Yamada* / Takako Inoue & Mariko Yoshida

1992: Kyoko Inoue & Aja Kong* / Takako Inoue & Terri Power

1993: Kyoko Inoue & Toshiyo Yamada / Takako Inoue & Yumiko Hotta

1994: Kyoko Inoue & Sakie Hasegawa / Takako Inoue & Manami Toyota*

1995: Kyoko Inoue & Tomoko Watanabe* / Takako Inoue & Aja Kong

1996: Kyoko Inoue & Chaparita Asari / Takako Inoue & Yumi Fukawa

2003: Kyoko Inoue & Hikaru / Takako Inoue & Kayo Noumi

 

* = winner

 

0 for 7.

 

Mita & Shimoda paired at times, at other times didn't.

[Loss]

I think randomly paired tag teams is my least favorite thing about AJW booking.

[Loss]

Pretty much every tag tournament they did they'd always toss in atleast a few random pairings, one of those things you don't give much thought to after a while.

You told me in another thread that AJW didn't randomly pair tag teams, and I would know that if I watched all the shows.

[soup23]

Yeah the random paired stuff really affected my watching of the last match and I even liked the opening double Inoues section. 10/9/94 just felt like such a big overcoming moment for them finally conquering over Toyota/Yamada and less than two months later, Takada gets to celebrate a big tournament win with someone she just overtook? Joshi has probably been my biggest eye opening in 1994 (with shootstyle a close second) as it was a style I had extremely limited knowledge on and had only watched the cream of the crop shows before. This year I looked forward to joshi matches toward the second half of the year as much as All Japan matches but the ending of this tournament while featuring good work seemed really reckless booking wise.

[jdw]

I think randomly paired tag teams is my least favorite thing about AJW booking.

The 80s seemed to have the normal teams paired together more consistently:

 

http://prowrestlinghistory.com/supercards/.../ajw/tag80.html

 

90s... not so much:

 

http://prowrestlinghistory.com/supercards/.../ajw/tag90.html

 

I suspect we think of AJW being as structured in teams as AJPW was, and it's just not the case. New Japan really wasn't as structured either.

 

Here's 1991:

 

Riki Choshu & Masa Saito - Old Team

Tatsumi Fujinami & Big Van Vader - Random

Masa Chono & Bam Bam Bigelow - Random

Keiji Mutoh & Hiro Hase - New

Shinya Hashimoto & Scott Norton - Random

Wild Samoan & Great Kokina - Team

Tiger Jeet Singh & Kim Duk - Old Heels

 

Mutoh & Hase would team together a good deal going forward, but Mutoh & Chono had been the team just a year before while Hase & Sasaki were a pair until Sasaki went out hurt.

 

1992:

 

Riki Choshu & Shinya Hashimoto - random

Hiro Hase & Kensuke Sasaki - back together just before Sasaki goes Hell Raiser

Keiji Mutoh & Bam Bam Bigelow - random

Masa Chono & Tony Halme - random

Scott Norton & Super Strong Machine - random

Tatsumi Fujinami & Manabu Nakanishi - random Vet / Kid team

Jim Niedhart & Tom Zenk -random gaijin team

 

Yikes!

 

They did get a little more "teammy" as the decade went on, but I don't think AJW was alone in randomness. It's AJPW that sticks out as being so insanely structured, especially in the top part of the tag teams.

 

John

[FLIK]

1991: Kyoko Inoue & Toshiyo Yamada* / Takako Inoue & Mariko Yoshida

1992: Kyoko Inoue & Aja Kong* / Takako Inoue & Terri Power

1993: Kyoko Inoue & Toshiyo Yamada / Takako Inoue & Yumiko Hotta

1994: Kyoko Inoue & Sakie Hasegawa / Takako Inoue & Manami Toyota*

1995: Kyoko Inoue & Tomoko Watanabe* / Takako Inoue & Aja Kong

1996: Kyoko Inoue & Chaparita Asari / Takako Inoue & Yumi Fukawa

2003: Kyoko Inoue & Hikaru / Takako Inoue & Kayo Noumi

91 - Kyoko/Yamada is random, Tak/Yoshida were reg tag parters at the time

92 - Kyoko/Aja were established by this time, Tak/Terri is random but their team only happened because Yoshida was injured

93 - Kyoko/Yamada were established by this point due to 91, Tak & Hotta were a reg team

94 - both random pairings

95 - Kyoko & Watanabe were both Bull flunkies so had a connection from that, Tak/Aja is random

96 - Random

03 - Random

 

You told me in another thread that AJW didn't randomly pair tag teams, and I would know that if I watched all the shows.

Tournaments were an exception. And I never said it NEVER happened but no it wasn't as common occurance as you're making it out to be. The matches you were complaining about random pairings in didn't have random pairings and would be easily understood by watching more footage

[FLIK]

They did get a little more "teammy" as the decade went on, but I don't think AJW was alone in randomness. It's AJPW that sticks out as being so insanely structured, especially in the top part of the tag teams.

Eh, if you want to go by JUST the tag league for AJW

 

1985 - 6 of 8 that I know of were regular pairings, the rest not sure

1986 - 6 of 10 that I know of, the rest not sure

1987 - 5 of the 6 (out of 10) teams listed I know were reg pairings

1988 - 8 of the 8 (out of 11) listed teams were reg

1989 - 8 of the 8 (out of 10) listed teams were reg

1990 - no tournament that year?

1991 - 5 of the 8 teams were regular

1992 - 8 of 9 were regular pairings

1993 - 6 of 8

1994 - 2 of 8

1995 - 3 of 8

1996 - can't really judge. They were big into rookie/vet pairings off the heels of the Discover New Heroine tournament earlier in the year and this continued that theme. Of the teams that don't fall into that catagory only Shimoda/Reggie is really random

1997 - the roster was gutted by this point hence only 5 teams period, can't really judge. I'm sure they were just happy to still have enough wrestlers for a tournament at all. That said, atlest 2 of the 5 were reg pairings.

1998 - At least 4 of the 7 teams were reg pairings, the other 3 i'm not familiar enough with 1998 to say either way.

1999 - Also not as familiar as i'd like to be but atleast 2 of the 5 were reg.

2000 - 4 of 6

2001 - 5 of 6

2002 - 3 of 8

2003 - 1 of 6 that I know of

2004 - 7 of 8

[jdw]

1991: Kyoko Inoue & Toshiyo Yamada* / Takako Inoue & Mariko Yoshida

1992: Kyoko Inoue & Aja Kong* / Takako Inoue & Terri Power

1993: Kyoko Inoue & Toshiyo Yamada / Takako Inoue & Yumiko Hotta

1994: Kyoko Inoue & Sakie Hasegawa / Takako Inoue & Manami Toyota*

1995: Kyoko Inoue & Tomoko Watanabe* / Takako Inoue & Aja Kong

1996: Kyoko Inoue & Chaparita Asari / Takako Inoue & Yumi Fukawa

2003: Kyoko Inoue & Hikaru / Takako Inoue & Kayo Noumi

91 - Kyoko/Yamada is random, Tak/Yoshida were reg tag parters at the time

92 - Kyoko/Aja were established by this time, Tak/Terri is random but their team only happened because Yoshida was injured

93 - Kyoko/Yamada were established by this point due to 91, Tak & Hotta were a reg team

It's a stretch to say that Kyoko & Yamada are "established" at a time when Yamada was winning the tag titles back with Toyota.

 

I also think it's a stretch to say that Aja & Kyoko are "established" in anything more than a random sense. Within a year, Kyoko challenged for the Tag Titles with:

 

06/18/91 with Bull

01/05/92 with Yamada

06/27/92 with Hokuto

07/15/92 with Aja

 

So you have her with her mentor, getting a challenge for the title vacated by the Jungle Jacks after the Tag League with the partner she won the tag league with, then Hokuto, then Aja.

 

What's established is that Kyoko could be tossed with anyone to challenge for the titles or pair in the tag league. They tossed everyone together like this often enough that we all can come up with "history" that any two wrestlers had together.

[jdw]

Again, on your list of regular pairings, it just means that everyone was tossed together with everyone. You've got Kyoko instantly becoming Aja's "regular" partner based on a limited past and a limited future. It's a bit like saying Baba & Kobashi were a regular team heading into the 1992 Tag League because they'd teamed together a few times (including Baba's last title match).

[ohtani's jacket]

There's likely reasons we don't know about for why the pairings were made. How much did Asuka's injury influence the '86 TLTB tournament, for example, where rookies teamed with established workers?

 

EDIT: Scratch that, Asuka was Mika Suzuki's partner so it was a planned idea.

[jdw]

I suspect it's just a general decision AJW made: they didn't want to be as locked into partners always partnering, so they bounced it around. They seemed to get far more into that mode in the 90s than in the 80s where teams like the Crush Girls and JBA teams together a ton. The 90s tag leagues come across as AJW wanting to give the fans "something different" rather than a rehash of a bunch of matches they'd seen earlier in the year.

[Loss]

It really wasn't just a tag league thing. Why did Hokuto and Kandori team at Queendom anyway?

[jdw]

It really wasn't just a tag league thing. Why did Hokuto and Kandori team at Queendom anyway?

I think that was covered in that thread.

[Loss]

I asked the question, but it was not answered.

[ohtani's jacket]

There was probably some reason given for it in press conferences or promos or the sports newspapers and wrestling magazines, but basically it's Parejas Increibles.

 

EDIT: Looks like I'm wrong again. The answer is because of fan voting -- http://joshipuro.blogspot.jp/1994/03/hokut...a-and-bull.html

[FLIK]

Fuck, had a big nice well written post done and I hit reply and the fucking website ate it and craped it out into the ether...gone forever

 

Here's a shittier cliff notes version

 

I also think it's a stretch to say that Aja & Kyoko are "established" in anything more than a random sense.

You've got Kyoko instantly becoming Aja's "regular" partner based on a limited past and a limited future.

One, just to clear up a possible misconception. Established & regular are two diffrent things. AJW would go long periods without teaming ppl up sometimes. I'll use Toyota & Shimoda for example, not always a regular team but they were at one time in their careers as the Tokyo Sweethearts and had a lot of history together therefore they were established and it wasn't a random pairing out of no where when you'd see them together and periodicly reform their team over the years. A random pairing would be some shit like, I dunno, Toyota & Bat Yoshinaga, no history, no future, just a paired up for the heck of it.

 

As far as the above quotes go, 7/92, Aja chooses Kyoko as her parter in a tag title match to replace an injured Bison, they fail but in the following months continue to team up including for Bull's anniversary show and going on a tour of Mexico together as a team, they continue teaming into the tag league at the end of the year, win it, then team up a fair # of times in 93 and are pretty much established as a pair on & off for the remainder of their careers. They even got a cool team name (Super Maniacs) and were voted one of the fans most favorite joshi tag teams ever in some magazine acording to what I read on an old joshi site a while back (Kyoko & Yamada were also on the list btw)

 

Not a limited past or limited future when it comes to those 2.

 

So you have her with her mentor, getting a challenge for the title vacated by the Jungle Jacks after the Tag League with the partner she won the tag league with, then Hokuto, then Aja.

 

What's established is that Kyoko could be tossed with anyone to challenge for the titles or pair in the tag league

2nd sentence contradicts the 1st thear. In every case but Hokuto, you've got her teaming with someone she'd been established as teaming with regularly in the past and or would team with regularly in the future. With Hokuto it sort of was random but they were running an angle with Hokuto & Kyoko feuding all year but also the dynamic of Hokuto taking Kyoko's place as Bull's best buddy while at the same time Kyoko was still under Bull's wing even though Kyoko had branched off to do her own thing a lot more by then. The latter is what led to them teaming and the former is what led to them failing and it'd feed into them feuding for the rest of the year and a whole buncha other crap so in that sense it wasn't a random pairing in that they didn't do it out of the blue for no good reason with no thought put into it which seems to be what Loss is trying to insinuate about AJW booking which yeah, just isn't true.

 

Also re 1/5/92 Yamada/Kyoko tag title challenge, haven't seen the match or even knew it took place until you mentioned it hear but as best I can tell Jungle Jack hadn't vacated the titles back then. They did vacate them after their hair match loss a year earlier in 91 to Kyoko & Bull but then they won them back a few months later in the decision match vs Hotta & Hokuto then held them another year until losing to Toyota & Yamada in March 92.