Muhammad Ali vs Antonio Inoki

[Ricky Jackson]

I've begun work on a project that may or may not ever see completion, but as part of it I've decided to research this strange encounter between wrestler and boxer from 1976. I've done some basic research so far, and I plan to sit down with a beer or two and watch the whole match soon http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xu7t5_muh...nio-inoki_sport (poor quality, but the only complete version of the match I could find online so far).

 

Anyway, I would appreciate any opinions and insight on the story surrounding the match from the learned folk around here. I know the basic overview, but am far from an expert on the subject. Full credit will be given if this project is ever to see the light of day of course.

 

Thanks

 

[JerryvonKramer]

Ricky, I seem to recall there's a good 15-minute segment on this on one of the Legends of Roundtables shows. Pretty sure it's either the 70s one or "celebrity effect".

[Ricky Jackson]

Yeah, I've seen that one. It was in the 70s episode where they were discussing the supercards of the decade and the Shea Stadium shows were brought up. The 76 Shea show featured a closed circuit broadcast of the Ali/Inoki match following a live card that was headlined by the Sammartino/Hansen revenge match, with Andre vs boxer Chuck Wepner underneath. This reminds me of a question I wanted to ask. Does anybody know which territories other than New York did joint closed circuit-live card shows in conjuction with Ali/Inoki? I know San Fran was one and the AWA as well, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head. Bonus marks for those who can supply attendance figures

 

Edit: after some quick research--GCW had a card in Atlanta with the ubiquitous 70s match of Jack Brisco vs Dory Funk Jr on top of the live card.

[JNLister]

Here's a massive collection of clippings about the event and the various closed circuit shows: https://rapidshare.com/files/3434091359/ali...20clippings.pdf

[evilclown]

There's a chapter on this fight in my book Shooters if you are interested.

[Ricky Jackson]

Wow, that is freaking awesome JNLister. Thanks man.

 

Shooters is on my must read list. I might even treat myself to a copy this weekend.

[Ricky Jackson]

After looking at the first few clippings from the time of the match it is funny/sad to see Inoki's name misspelled so many times in the ads from the US newspapers--"Inoke", "Inoko".

 

Very interesting co-promotions going on in some areas--in Houston at the Astrodome you could watch an Astros/Reds ballgame and then stick around for the closed circuit broadcast ("On 6 Giant Screens") of Ali/Inoki and Andre/Wepner.

[JNLister]

This is nothing whatsoever to do with Ali-Inoki, but the Observer covering WrestleMania 1 had some great closed circuit stories. One venue had people raging because they somehow thought the event was taking place live in the arena, not on TV. Memphis was cancelled because they sold something like 13 advance tickets. And in one venue -- I think Dallas -- the showing was in a large arena but people turned up to find it was just four large (by 1985 standards) domestic TV sets arranged in a square in the middle of the floor.

[Jason Mann]

Yeah, I've seen that one. It was in the 70s episode where they were discussing the supercards of the decade and the Shea Stadium shows were brought up. The 76 Shea show featured a closed circuit broadcast of the Ali/Inoki match following a live card that was headlined by the Sammartino/Hansen revenge match, with Andre vs boxer Chuck Wepner underneath. This reminds me of a question I wanted to ask. Does anybody know which territories other than New York did joint closed circuit-live card shows in conjuction with Ali/Inoki? I know San Fran was one and the AWA as well, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head. Bonus marks for those who can supply attendance figures

 

Edit: after some quick research--GCW had a card in Atlanta with the ubiquitous 70s match of Jack Brisco vs Dory Funk Jr on top of the live card.

I'm 90% I remember Larry Matysik mentioning St. Louis had a show in conjunction with Ali-Inoki in one of those 57talk interviews.

[Ricky Jackson]

The clippings include ads for live shows in LA, Detroit (drew 4,138 to the Olympia, apparently more than a closed-circuit of a Forman/Frazier fight a few months prior) and Toledo in addition to the ones I already mentioned. The weird part is the Detroit and Toledo shows have virtually the same live card advertised. No St. Louis, but I may have missed something/I'm sure there were others not included in the clippings.

[Al]

Fred Blassie's autobiography talks about the match. He was Ali's "manager" for the match.

[Hammer]

Hi, would it be possible to have that clippings collection uploaded somewhere again? It's not available anymore.

 

Anyway, I'm not a fighting expert but it seems to me that Inoki is a terrible fighter. When he darts towards Ali to kick him he always misses and he lands flat on his back not only because he wants to but he looks like he's losing balance. You can tell he was not used to real fighting.

 

You guys know much more than me, what's your opinion abou his technique?

[King Solomon]

Hi, would it be possible to have that clippings collection uploaded somewhere again? It's not available anymore.

 

Anyway, I'm not a fighting expert but it seems to me that Inoki is a terrible fighter. When he darts towards Ali to kick him he always misses and he lands flat on his back not only because he wants to but he looks like he's losing balance. You can tell he was not used to real fighting.

 

You guys know much more than me, what's your opinion abou his technique?

 

I have an old wrestling Mag from the 70's that talks about the Ali/Inoki match. It's pretty cool as it breaks froim the usual super kayfabe and blasts the match

[Childs]

Here's a link to the Sports Illustrated story about it if you haven't seen: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/art...91281/index.htm.

 

Kram was a brilliant writer, but as I recall, he took a pretty condescending attitude toward Inoki.

[JNLister]

Hi, would it be possible to have that clippings collection uploaded somewhere again? It's not available anymore.

If nobody else has got it to hand, I'll try to upload it tomorrow.

[Ricky Jackson]

I sent Hammer an e-mail with the clippings, so don't worry about it.

[Ricky Jackson]

Here's a link to the Sports Illustrated story about it if you haven't seen: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/art...91281/index.htm.

 

Kram was a brilliant writer, but as I recall, he took a pretty condescending attitude toward Inoki.

Thanks, man. I'm not sure when I'll get around to using all this info. My original idea was to do a podcast about underreported and overlooked moments from the history of wrestling, inspired by the 30 for 30 ESPN show, with Ali/Inoki being the basis of an episode. Anyway, that podcast idea eventually evolved into the Fringe Scholars show that I posted in the podcast section last week. I still want to do a show about it, but it might not be for a while. Actually, I'm also thinking about doing an all-wrestling podcast independent of the Fringe Scholars based on the 30 for 30 for wrestling idea. Shit, if anybody is interested in this idea, PM me and maybe something cool will come out of it. I'm game for more podcasting.

[Hammer]

I confirm I received the clippings from Ricky Jackson, thank you all!

 

Since you guys know much more than me about wrestling I'd like to hear your thoughts about Inoki's technique. To me it lookes like when he had to face a real opponent (not a pre-decided fight) he acted like a street brawler.

[Guest Andrews]

I remember getting this from a swap off a tape trader; it counted as a whole tape due to the length (plus all the before and after jazz) and I remember feeling utterly disappointed. Not sure what i was expecting really.

[Guest TheGreatPuma]

I confirm I received the clippings from Ricky Jackson, thank you all!

 

Since you guys know much more than me about wrestling I'd like to hear your thoughts about Inoki's technique. To me it lookes like when he had to face a real opponent (not a pre-decided fight) he acted like a street brawler.

From memory, Inoki in part did what he did because he was not allowed to use certain techniques. There were rules put on him on what he was allowed to do.

[Bix]

IIRC the rules as described on Wikipedia are what Dave has written in the Observer...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_...nio_Inoki#Rules

 

In the days leading up to the fight Ali and Inoki’s representatives began to renegotiate the rules. A list of restrictions was imposed on Inoki. He would not be allowed to throw, grapple or tackle Ali, and could not land any kicks unless he had one knee on the mat.

Once it turned into a shoot with those rules, Inoki literally had no choice but to fight the way he did.

[Bix]

This is nothing whatsoever to do with Ali-Inoki, but the Observer covering WrestleMania 1 had some great closed circuit stories. One venue had people raging because they somehow thought the event was taking place live in the arena, not on TV. Memphis was cancelled because they sold something like 13 advance tickets. And in one venue -- I think Dallas -- the showing was in a large arena but people turned up to find it was just four large (by 1985 standards) domestic TV sets arranged in a square in the middle of the floor.

I remember I was going to reply to this months ago but never did. YAY BUMPED THREADS.

 

I believe that what the WWF did was promote the show in vague terms if there was only a single closed circuit location in a given TV market with the intention of misleading people into thinking it was a live show. At least that was what those Observers said, I don't think I've ever seen any of those ads.

 

I told the Dallas(?) story somewhere else on this board once. I believe it was a 40" TV (for screen height, a modern 50" TV would be the closest comparable size).

[Guest Andrews]

IIRC the rules as described on Wikipedia are what Dave has written in the Observer...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_...nio_Inoki#Rules

 

In the days leading up to the fight Ali and Inoki’s representatives began to renegotiate the rules. A list of restrictions was imposed on Inoki. He would not be allowed to throw, grapple or tackle Ali, and could not land any kicks unless he had one knee on the mat.

Once it turned into a shoot with those rules, Inoki literally had no choice but to fight the way he did.

 

He could have started spitting on him on the ground position he was in, that would have been epic.

[JNLister]

This is nothing whatsoever to do with Ali-Inoki, but the Observer covering WrestleMania 1 had some great closed circuit stories. One venue had people raging because they somehow thought the event was taking place live in the arena, not on TV. Memphis was cancelled because they sold something like 13 advance tickets. And in one venue -- I think Dallas -- the showing was in a large arena but people turned up to find it was just four large (by 1985 standards) domestic TV sets arranged in a square in the middle of the floor.

I remember I was going to reply to this months ago but never did. YAY BUMPED THREADS.

 

I believe that what the WWF did was promote the show in vague terms if there was only a single closed circuit location in a given TV market with the intention of misleading people into thinking it was a live show. At least that was what those Observers said, I don't think I've ever seen any of those ads.

 

I told the Dallas(?) story somewhere else on this board once. I believe it was a 40" TV (for screen height, a modern 50" TV would be the closest comparable size).

 

Just dug the issue out (well, dug it out on Saturday then spent three days trying to overcome the CAPTCHAs here to reset my password.) Sound like the advertising was a bit vague as some people genuinely believed WrestleMania was going to be in the Fair Park Coliseum in Dallas. As well as only being a single 45 inch TV (WWF had said they'd provide four), the sound was unintelligible for most of the show. They sold 1,500 tickets but had to refund 400 people. It was only $10.25 though.

[khawk20]

They sold 1,500 tickets but had to refund 400 people. It was only $10.25 though.

$10.25 in 1985 dollars would still have been decent cash, I think. Not bank-breaking, of course, but still something to consider for lower-income people and families. Minimum wage back then in Canada was $3.15, for example.