goodhelmet Posted June 3, 2013 Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 We're going to finish this bad boy up. Here is tonight's line-up of matches... Wahoo McDaniel vs. Manny Fernandez (Strap Match) (12/13/88) Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (12/13/88) Wahoo McDaniel & Tom Zenk vs. Manny Fernandez & Larry Zbyszko (2/7/89) Ken Patera & Brad Rheingans vs. Badd Company (3/25/89) Bobby & Jackie Fulton vs. Destruction Crew (11/18/89) Paul Diamond vs. Pat Tanaka (11/18/89) Larry Zbyszko vs. Nikita Koloff (11/18/89) Feel free to join in. We have myself, Johnny Sorrow, Kris Z and hopefully Dave Fucking Musgrave. http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkC...6382&cmd=tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted June 3, 2013 Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 Good to see the climax of the show and I thought these matches at the end of their set were a ton of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puropotsy Posted June 3, 2013 Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 Had fun doing the show tonight. For those interested, here is a photo of the inspiration for one of our heated topics of conversation from tonight. https://plus.google.com/1171157472577156290...682443762?hl=en Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted June 3, 2013 Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 We had a blast tonight bidding a fond adieu to the AWA in the 1980's. My rankings of disc 11 are 1. The Debut of the Master Blaster 2. Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (12/13/88) 3. Wahoo McDaniel vs. Manny Fernandez (Strap Match) (12/13/88) 4. Ken Patera & Brad Rheingans vs. Badd Company (3/25/89) 5. Bobby & Jackie Fulton vs. Destruction Crew (11/18/89) 6. Wahoo McDaniel & Tom Zenk vs. Manny Fernandez & Larry Zbyszko (2/7/89) 7. Paul Diamond vs. Pat Tanaka (11/18/89) 8. Larry Zbyszko vs. Nikita Koloff (11/18/89) BUT WAIT!!!! We never did disc one...........stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 3, 2013 Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 I only listened to the tail end of this live, but will try and go back and listen to more tonight. As usual I have pretty big disagreements with you guys. I was glad Pater/Rheingans v. Badd Company wasn't buried, but to me it was clearly the second best match of the bunch of stuff you watched after Kerry v. Lawler. I also like Nikita v. Larry a good bit more than you guys, though I don't think it's a hidden classic or anything. Biggest disagreement is the Manny/Wahoo strap match. During nominations Will theorized that I just have a problem with four corner gimmick matches like that and there is probably something to that. Having said that I watched this match more than any other match on the set during the process and at no point has it risen in any real way in my eyes. Colon v. Hansen is probably a top five singles matches I've ever seen with a similar gimmick and Vader/Sting is outstanding with the same gimmick - Wahoo/Manny just wasn't very good. Not a bad match or anything, but I love the vast, vast majority of stuff on this set and this match doesn't even approach that category. I do my rankings in a weird way and I"m a long way from done with them, but right now it's 146 on my ballot - one spot ahead of the Wahoo/Zenk tag incidentally. I could see it sliding up a couple of spots, but I don't see anyway it could break into the top 140. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted June 3, 2013 Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 I liked it more than you did and I haven't done my final rankings yet but it's definitely in my Top 50. That's the best thing about these projects as we have sometimes great differing opinions and it's not all a mob mentality when it comes to rankings. Variety is the spice of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 3, 2013 Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 I usually fall close in line with Dylan (or closer than most) and the strap match is, at least, not in my bottom 30. the handheld Wahoo vs Manny is 149, but that's another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 The image of Buck Zumhoff's mug shot with his boom box on his shoulder is going to take a while to remove from my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbaugh Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 I'm kind of a sucker for the gimmick, and I'm also a sucker for Wahoo, so it would be hard for me not to enjoy that match. It ended up at #56 for me, and I think that it only finished that low because of the way I rate matches. Going into a match I have a certain expectation that I cannot distance myself from -- call it my expected rating. If I see Manny vs. Wahoo (Strap Match), I'm already thinking this is going to be a 7 with no other info to go on (a 7 is good enough for Top 30-40 on the 80s sets I've watched so far). That is my minimum expected rating. So how far the match varies from that expected value will weigh heavily on my final rating. In this case, I still really liked the match, but it didn't quite meet my expectations and the rating suffered a bit. Compare that to the Bock vs. Wahoo match, where I was expecting maybe a 5-5.5, and it ended up being incredible. That ended up as my number 2 match because it exceeded my expectations by so much. This can also hurt matches, as a couple of Bock's matches I had higher expectatIons for, and when they failed to meet them, the final rating took a big hit. But I also had the Manny vs. Wahoo from 10/15/88 as my #20 match so I may just love that matchup more than most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Time to finish up. Wahoo vs. Manny, strap match. Very brutal brawl with all the stiffness you'd expect. I'd describe this as your archetypal "Will match" and it was not a surprise to hear him marking for it. I thought it was a little one-gear myself but this is probably the best match from these two. B+, but note to self, higher than other one which is B+ on disc 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Kerry vs. Lawler This was a bloodbath. I'm not really a fan of the claw as a move in general, whether applied to the head or to the stomach. The level of blood is insane in this. Lawler does a lot of sneaky Memphis chain stuff. Some terrific punches here from him. Seeing him lay into Kerry's extremely bloody face is a great visual. Kerry may have more blood on his face here than I've ever seen in wrestling. This match was really good. It felt bigtime, Lawler worked a smart match, Kerry was perfectly servicable considering it was almost 1989 too. A- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Wahoo and Mr. Charisma Tom Zenk vs. Zybysko and Manny Seems to take a long time to start this one. Things pick up when Manny starts working Wahoo over. I didn't think this was very good. Larry Z seemed to do absolutely nothing. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Ken "Stuck in the 70s" Patera and Brad Rheingans vs. Badd Company It's so weird that Patera looks more dated and 70s now than he did in the early 80s. That means he actively chose to look like that. Strange choice. Tanaka is one of the very few wrestlers who genuinely looks cool, as in outside in the real world, he would have looked cool in 1989. Not in those tights mind. Brad has a better look here than he did in the early-mid 80s. A guy who looks better with a bit more weight on him. Patera is not moving too bad here in fairness. Quickly into a bearhug though. Backbreaker. I can't get over what Patera looks like here, he seems sort of womanly. Like he should be tagging with The Glamour Girls. Brad takes over on Tanaka. Diamond hits a great clothesline. They've worked this match old-school AWA style with a long shine sequence. Nice inside cradle by Brad. Feel like things lose their way a bit after the hot tag to Patera and the second FIP sequence is a bit messy in general. This is probably the best Brad Rheingans performance on the set. Decentish B- Can't really believe they made these guys tag champs here. Post-match Patera claims that this is the greatest combination in tag history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Rheingans is vastly better in the Martel match but I know that is a losing battle with you. Anyhow I love that tag. I think this set is loaded so not sure how high up the depth chart it goes, but it has a good shot of finishing in my top thirty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Bobby & Jackie Fulton vs. Destruction Crew Decent tag match with two contrasting styles. I thought the Beverley Brothers were a complete joke as a kid and they were one of those teams who surprised me when I found out they could be kickass later in life. I've liked a lot of the Bobby Fulton I've seen and he was fine here. From a career perspective, to go from NWA in 1989 to working in the death throes of the AWA is quite a fall -- had he not got involved in promoting I do wonder what Fulton's 90s career would have been like. There was surely a place on the WCW cards for him. Anyway, HOLY SHIT, I was not expecting to see Jerry Blackwell again. He looks OLD here. Lower middle. C- I think Eric Bischoff looked pretty sexy in 1989, could have been in Spandau Ballet. The green screen is absolutely hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Paul Diamond vs. Pat Tanaka I really really like Tanaka. I don't know why, I just think the guy is cool as hell. Always have. His black velvet karate gear here is bitchin'. Things start off with a long headlock. This is being worked in an oddly casual manager for former tagteam partners taking each other on. Things pick up a bit with a superkick from Tanaka and some great crossbodies. Diamond starts a comeback and Tanaka begs off. Big clothesline almost takes Tanaka's head off. This hasn't been bad at all. Sato is here now. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Last match for the set ... Post-87 Flattop Thin Nikita Koloff (aka my least favourite wrestler ever ever ever) vs. Larry Zybysko In my mind, Nikita with hair is a different man. You know how some people think the real Paul McCartney was killed in 1967? I think the real Nikita Koloff was killed some time in 1987 and the man since has been an imposter. Actually, it's a little complicated because the "real" Nikita came back to WCW circa 1992. The only analogy I can make is to the Mad Hatter in the Batman comics -- there's the real Mad Hatter and fake "imposter" Mad Hatter. A lot of the boring, lifeless matwork I associate with the Nikita of this period to start. Zybysko does his best to make this more interesting. Man, I wish I could overcome my sheer unbridled hatred for this version of Nikita. Just as shitty as he is in NWA. Decent suplex mind. Even looking beyond my prejudice, this match has had no real flow or story so far. Zybysko has been a little hit or miss on this set, I REALLY liked his Bock matches and he was hot in general around the time he was having those. But he's not looked that good in 89. Man, that's it? D+ This could have been a good bit better if it had gone 5-6 minutes longer and if Zybysko had any sort of offense at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Judging by the massive gap between the Badd Company vs. Patera / Rheingans match and the Fultons vs. Destruction Crew, I think it's safe to conclude that 1989 AWA was hardly awash with great quality. It's amazing how much things dropped off even from 1987 when most people would think the AWA was totally done. The crowds from that time into 88 seem to halve and then halve and halve again in 89. Can't really believe there is a whole year more of this promotion after this. In a way, one of the surprising things about this is just how late on it is before the dwindling crowds and general sense of being in the doldrums starts to take hold of the in-ring product. Even if the booking is consistently questionable it seems like things didn't start going truly to shit in terms of bottoming out to the point of no return until mid-88. Maybe it's just that the quality of the 87 stuff is so high that it masks or distracts from the crowd shrinkages, but it seems to me that there was still a shred of hope that things might have been salvaged then. Still, 80s AWA was much, much better than I ever thought it would be and I'm glad I saw it through. Disc 11 rankings then: A- Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (12/13/88) B+ Wahoo McDaniel vs. Manny Fernandez (Strap Match) (12/13/88) B- Ken Patera & Brad Rheingans vs. Badd Company (3/25/89) C Paul Diamond vs. Pat Tanaka (11/18/89) C- Bobby & Jackie Fulton vs. Destruction Crew (11/18/89) D+ Larry Zbyszko vs. Nikita Koloff (11/18/89) D Wahoo McDaniel & Tom Zenk vs. Manny Fernandez & Larry Zbyszko (2/7/89) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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