goodhelmet Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Put me in the camp that agrees with your all time greats but thinks that Pirata Morgan needs to be bumped to that elite level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I felt like updating this. v2 February 2015 All-Time Greats Satanico, El Dandy, Negro Casas, El Hijo del Santo Great Workers Emilio Charles, Jr., Atlantis, Blue Panther, Pirata Morgan, Solar, Lizmark, Black Terry, Negro Navarro, Virus, Sangre Chicana, Villano III Excellent Workers Cassandro, Espanto Jr., MS-1, La Fiera, Fuerza Guerrera, El Signo, Bestia Salvaje, Mocho Cota Strong Hands Angel Azteca, Perro Aguayo, Dos Caras, Villano IV, Villano V, Dr. Cerebro, Black Man, Herodes, El Faraon, El Texano, Gran Cochise, LA Park, Brazo de Oro, Demus 3:16, Pierrothito Solid Hands Sergio El Hermoso, Ultraman, Jerry Estrada, Super Astro, Freelance, Brazo de Plata, Chico Che, Espectro Jr, Hombre Bala, Masakre, Tony Salazar, Psicosis, Pierroth Jr., Apolo Dantes, Javier Cruz, Ringo Mendoza, Silver King, Dr. Wagner Jr., Felino, Valiente, Los Traumas I y II, Cicloncito Ramirez, Mano Negra, Americo Rocca, Huracan Sevilla, Gran Apache, Charles Lucero, Rambo, Ciclon Ramirez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Random question, I know - and I'm posting it here, strictly because I'm unsure as to where else it'd apply - but a friend & I were talking modern lucha vs. modern puro recently... and, since this place is primarily my favorite board nowadays, I wanted to gauge your guys' thoughts on something... Who, in today's lucha libre, would you put on par with Nakamura in terms of showmanship, charisma, and presence? Anybody? It isn't necessarily limited to Mexico either. They can be working stateside. Hell, Puerto Rico could apply - if there's anyone on the island that warrants a mention.I'm just curious. At times, I watch Nakamura & feel like he's absolutely at a level all his own in terms of aura & behaving like a HUGE star. Guy demands undivided attention. But I'm eager to find out if anyone exists in modern day lucha that'd compare. I'm not taking a stand and saying there isn't - quite the contrary, actually. I'm definitely hoping to discover that there are at least a couple of candidates that could hold up and AT LEAST make a case for 'em in the same sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 The standard answer would probably be Casas or Rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Rush for sure is the closest. He was the one guy when people were discussing Nakamura as the runaway Observer charismatic winner that I would have put in the same league. He has a great ability to illicit a response and really knows how to utilize his move set to match his reactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I think both Rush and Casas are definitely right there with Nakamura in terms of charisma. I think the biggest difference is that Nakamura stands out a bit more because of the way NJPW is presented as a whole v. the way CMLL is presented (tons of guys in masks, dancers on the way to the ring for everyone, et.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Give Cavernario another year or two. How do people feel about Maximo when it comes to charisma? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Yeah. I can certainly see the case for Rush, but I don't know. I definitely need to go back & watch some of his hair matches without any distractions. Any other recommended stuff of his I should check out? And as dated as my pick might be, my go-to guy for this would (still at this stage) be LA Park. Guy's absolutely unafraid to get in fans' faces or WHATEVER it takes to rile them into a frenzy. Same time, he's right at home & completely comfortable in just cutting a rug to entertain the crowd. Plus he's PROVEN that his act holds that crossover appeal to fans of just about any variety. Heck, I know people that have fallen off from their fandom since the Attitude Era - but they can vividly remember "La Parka" from his WCW days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Who could have guessed that, in a career featuring wins as important as the hair of Javier Cruz and the inaugural CMLL World Light Heavyweight Championship, Jerry Estrada's greatest triumph as a wrestler would come in February 2015, over ten years since he stopped regularly lacing up the boots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Ha, I'll probably knock him off the list the next time I see one of his drug fueled train wrecks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Yeah. I can certainly see the case for Rush, but I don't know. I definitely need to go back & watch some of his hair matches without any distractions. Any other recommended stuff of his I should check out? And as dated as my pick might be, my go-to guy for this would (still at this stage) be LA Park. Guy's absolutely unafraid to get in fans' faces or WHATEVER it takes to rile them into a frenzy. Same time, he's right at home & completely comfortable in just cutting a rug to entertain the crowd. Plus he's PROVEN that his act holds that crossover appeal to fans of just about any variety. Heck, I know people that have fallen off from their fandom since the Attitude Era - but they can vividly remember "La Parka" from his WCW days. A few years ago Dr. Wagner Jr. and LA Park would have fit the bill, but they've worn out their welcome by jerking around promoters. Perro Aguayo Jr. was another guy who had that sort of appeal but pissed it all away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 OJ, interested in your ranking of Perro Aguayo. Ranking him in the strong hand category is certainly nothing damning, but I was surprised to see him lumped with some people like Angel Azteca and El Fararon where Perro has seemed much more consistent in the 80's - early 90's footage I have seen. Do you downgrade Perro based on his later years or his overall brawling tendencies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I like some of Perro's later stuff for the spectacle, but I don't think he was the most coordinated of workers. Even in the 80s footage, the way he moves about the ring or applies a hold is unaesthetically pleasing to me. He was a tremendous brawler with unbelievable charisma, but even if we had footage from his prime I'm not sure he'd be that much better technique-wise. It's possible that I'm overrating Azteca and Faraon. I like the idea of ranking the luchadores, but when I sit down to do it, I feel like I'm forgetting everybody. Then I figure I'll go through luchawiki so I don't miss somebody, but give up after "A." Azteca I have different expectations for since I regard him as a classic masked tecnico. Faraon I'm not even sure how I feel about as it's been ages since I've watched him. I change my opinion on guys from one match to the next in a very fickle "what have you done for me lately?" kind of a way, but with lucha so much of how you judge a guy is based on what they contribute to trios matches, and I tend to get swayed one way or the other depending on what I've been watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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