Wrestling Culture Episode 49

[puropotsy]

On Episode 49 of The Wrestling Culture podcast, Dylan and I are joined by David Bixenspan to discuss the 2013 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame Ballot, especially the North American candidates. We speak at length about Mark Lewin, Brock Lesnar, and Mr. Wrestling II and of course since Dylan and I are on the line we talk about Ken Patera and debate about Edge. Please give it a listen.

 

Wrestling Culture Episode 49

[Dylan Waco]

Dave beat me to it. This show was really awesome and very thorough. I think we explored a variety of candidates and some from angles that have never been explored before that I know of. We had spirited debates on Pedro Morales and Edge, went into great detail on some of the non-wrestlers, explored whether or not California wrestling is under represented (follow up on Kurt Brown's point from last show) and dug as deep on Lewin as anyone has. Lots of side tangents and there was even more we could have discussed. I want to keep talking about it in this thread, but I will wait for other people to (hopefully) chime in first.

[cheapshot]

Looking forward to this. Thanks guys.

[JerryvonKramer]

Very good show this so far, about half way through.

 

I'm glad that all three of you have voted for Ivan Koloff and to see that KrisZ did too. The Mark Lewin stuff has been fascinating.

[El Boricua]

Really good show. Really fun hearing the different viewpoints on the candidates. I do have to say, and it's a talking point I've heard many times before, but the talking point of Puerto Rico as a territory being killed off because of what happened with Brody and because of Invader being pushed tends to be overstated. It's part of the equation to some extent, but it's not the be all reason it's presented as.

 

I do have a question, and it's based on something Bix wanted to ask. Based on the Pedro Morales discussion, what would be your take on Miguel Perez?

[Dylan Waco]

I will say that I don't have a fully formulated opinion on Perez. When I think of him I immediately think of Rocca. I know there was a period where he was working MSG without Rocca, but I don't see any error in NYC as being the "Perez era," whereas I do think there was a Morales era if that makes sense.

 

Anyone who has watched the footage knows the "Brody died, business went with it" talking point is wildly exaggerated, but I'd be interested to hear what factors you think led to the decline of WWC.

 

One thing I was going to mention on the show but didn't because of how we jumped around was that I think one great argument for the magazines desperately needing some sort of inclusion is the fact that a guy like Sting is considered a "lock" Hall of Famer by so many who should know better. As a kid reading the magazines Sting was presented as an absolutely legendary figure on par with the top faces of the era like Hogan and Savage. That sort of perception creation is why the magazines were so important.

[El Boricua]

In terms of WWC's decline, there are a few factors to consider. Two of them had the effect of affecting the potential talent pool from which they could bring wrestlers. These are Brody's death and the end of the territories. The end of the territories whittled down the places WWC could bring talent from. The fallout from Brody's death turned off some fans and also poisoned the well in terms of wrestlers who had not come down here before being willing to come. You still had guys like Ron Garvin, JYD, Rip Rogers, Steve Strong, Ivan Koloff and Kerry Von Erich coming to PR in late 88-89 and that's without mentioning the many wrestlers who had been in PR before and still came back post Brody. Crowds would dip slightly in the immediate aftermath but recover fairly quickly.

 

Still, the one factor that a lot of locals say weighs a lot in the decline (and one I agree with) is the absolute refusal of WWC to phase out Carlos and Invader from being the top dogs once the 90's started and giving the new generation of local wrestlers the chance to establish themselves. It is this situation that led to half the company jumping to the newly formed All Star Wrestling at the end of 91 and put WWC in such a bind that they resorted to running a Carlos vs. Invader feud to keep the company afloat. In 92, All Star was actually drawing better crowds than WWC for most cards until WWC went with Carlos vs. Invader. Even with that, the economical situation was so bad in 93 that both companies went under (although WWC was able to reincorporate themselves quickly and continue).

[Badlittlekitten]

Looking forward to giving this a listen. The HOF talk wouldn't usually interest me but the last podcast was quite fascinating. Educational shit.

 

Semi- related question: A few shows back Dylan mentioned he'd done a podcast on the Shield. Sounds sexy. Where can I find that?

[Dylan Waco]

The Shield podcast was with Alan and Justin Shapiro over at the figure four/observer site back in May. If you've got a sub it's in the archives.

[rainmakerrtv]

Sorry to ask a dumb question, but what is a "homestead" territory?

[Bix]

Sorry to ask a dumb question, but what is a "homestead" territory?

To homestead a territory was to take up permanent residence there and stay in the territory, usually referring to someone who wasn't an anchor star, promoter's son, etc. It can be used as a positive, negative, or neutral term.

 

For example:

 

- The Carolinas under Jim Sr. were considered a homsteaders' territory, but he was admired for it because he allowed wrestlers to settle down in the territory and make a life for themselves there. If they decide to move on, they were usually free to come back as they pleased.

 

- Jim Cornette felt that no other heels could get over in Dallas when he was there because Chris Adams and Gino Hernandez had homesteaded the territory.