cm funk Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I was thinking Powers of Pain might have worked as opponents if they'd been built up as singles better. Barbarian would have had the better match, but Warlord could have been a better draw. However, they ruined Warlord for me when they put him in that ridiculous outfit with the W staff and paired him with Slick. They didn't really do anything with either of them as a single. Warlord had a ton of TV squashes, and pinned Tito Santana on house shows every night up through August. Then he goes around the horn with Snuka where he loses by DQ/CO the first time around, then pins him the second, with some wins over Ron Garvin, Koko B. Ware and Jim Brunzell mixed in. Then by the end of the year he's putting over Davey Boy Smith all over and eventually loses at WM7. Pretty much the same thing with Barbarian. Beats Tito at WM. Then beats Snuka on every show up through the summer. Lots of TV squashes. Beats Ron Garvin every night for a bit. Then when Snuka goes with Warlord they put Barbarian over Tito every night for a while. Then he starts losing to Bossman around the horn to end the year, and a couple losses to Bret Hart, with a few wins against guys like Snuka, Saba Simba, Shane Douglas and Dustin Rhodes near the end to build him up for his Rumble match with Bossman. Which he loses, then starts teaming with Haku. Both guys they could have fed to Warrior in '90 before feeding them to guys lower down the card like DBS and Bossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 From what I remember from shoots and what not, both guys thought they'd be getting runs with Hogan or Warrior when they broke up and it just never happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Have a hard time buying Barbarian as a main eventer based on his stuff with Simmons in 1992. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Have a hard time buying Barbarian as a main eventer based on his stuff with Simmons in 1992. I think it might have worked if they basically ran back the Hogan-Heenan feud with Warrior. Barbarian could have worked nicely as one leg of that. But instead Bossman got that feud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabinski611 Posted November 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Several parts of this topic I want to address. Once Warrior is put over Hogan, were people turning away because of the lack of credible heels for Warrior or were they just tiring of the Hogan formula ? The reason I ask is because Earthquake was a fresh heel for Hogan and if Hogan was still considered the draw with or without the title then I don't see where it should have hurt business. Btw, I think Rude was rejected in 1990 much more because of his jobbing to Piper than him working with Warrior the previous year. Ithought he looked strong in the Warrior feud even in losing the IC belt back at Summerslam. I like the idea of pushing Warlord/Barbarian as singles since it would be something new. I don't know if it would get over but it was worth a shot. Any thoughts on grabbing any of these guys from wcw in 1990 for fresh talent ? Sid- already mentioned and eventually signed but he could have been used sooner. Norman- Big fat guy which Vince likes Abdulah the Butcher- Abby was with the NWA in the beginning of 1990. As long as you make sure he doesn't blade he would make a great heel. He would need a manager to speak for him but so what. Bam Bam Bigelow- Never worked heel for Vince up to that point. Curtis Hughes- When was the Mr. Hughes gimmick created. I don't think it was until later on but I think he could have worked despite his brief 93 run. DR. Death Steve Williams- Ron Simmons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Flair I am not sure is a good example of your point Parv. Look at some of those TV matches. He's going 50/50 with Jim Neidhart and getting destroyed by Tito Santana and Shawn Michaels (who's only a bit above Buswhacker Luke in the pecking order) for 90% of the match before getting fluke wins. As a kid my reaction when I saw those matches (didn't have cable but friends did) was "Hogan's gonna kill this loser". Compare that to the way Undertaker completely destroys Jimmy Snuka, a much more effective way of building up a heel. Vince's short sightedness in not going Warrior/Earthquake is really mind boggling. Warrior was "his" guy, his pet project and he just completely blows it. And they already had a ready made story (Earthquake debuted attacking Warrior, had interfered with Warrior twice after that before Wrestlemania). It's so obvious and logical I wonder if it wasn't suggested and Hogan threatened to leave. Hogan's pretty much admitted he worked at sabotaging the Warrior's title run anyway. As for Powers of Pain I don't think that would work. The problem with Warrior is that you need a competent ring general (Savage, Dibiase, Rude, Perfect to a lesser extent) who can dictate the pace and work the match out. Warrior-Warlord would have been about the same quality as Warrior-Hercules two years earlier and I'm sure even Vince realized that wasn't a good enough match to main event his shows. Barbarian has cooler moves, but I've never felt he really understood how to put a great match together himself (gimme some examples, happy to be proved wrong on that) Bam Bam's not a bad idea but if Hogan is feuding with a big fat guy...Warrior should not. They really should have paired Hogan up with someone else in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I honestly think Warrior doesn't need a ring general. He just needs to follow an agent's instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 You might be right there Matt, the two Undertaker matches are decent and UT was nowhere near that level by that point. So it all comes down to wondering why Vince so badly booked his pet project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Agree Brain that Flair was very "bitched out" in WWF, but that was his MO. Protected as in "not pinned on TV". Check how many pinfall losses on TV guys like Ted and Rude had in this two year stretch to guys not named Warrior or Hogan. I haven't looked, but my guess is less than 5 between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 That's fair but.........who did they beat on TV either? I would argue at that time virtually everyone was protected. Piper, Beefcake, Jake, Rude, Perfect, Dibiase, Bossman, Dusty etc etc. Unless you are counting the televised house shows pretty much nobody not named Haku, Tito Santana, Jimmy Snuka or Koko B Ware did more than a few TV jobs a year back then. You can add the Hammer and Ronnie Garvin to guys who did frequent jobs. And Hercules. But there's a whole tier of nearly 20 guys who were protected on TV, necessary to make 3 house show circuits have enough intriguing matches to entice a fan's interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I wouldn't have expected Warrior-Warlord or Warrior-Barbarian to be good just that it's something that could be sold to kids, which was the primary audience for Warrior and the WWF at the time. I think Abdullah would have worked better as a Hogan opponent in the 80's, when you still had blood and more violent matches. By 1990 they were entering full blown cartoon mode. And I think you would have needed the Hogan payday to entice him away from the money he made in Japan/Puerto Rico and other places. Bam Bam would have been good, but he was a regular in New Japan at this point, would have been tough to get him. Same with Vader, or any of the All-Japan guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 That's fair but.........who did they beat on TV either? I would argue at that time virtually everyone was protected. Piper, Beefcake, Jake, Rude, Perfect, Dibiase, Bossman, Dusty etc etc. Unless you are counting the televised house shows pretty much nobody not named Haku, Tito Santana, Jimmy Snuka or Koko B Ware did more than a few TV jobs a year back then. You can add the Hammer and Ronnie Garvin to guys who did frequent jobs. And Hercules. But there's a whole tier of nearly 20 guys who were protected on TV, necessary to make 3 house show circuits have enough intriguing matches to entice a fan's interest. Good point also. I just went and had a little look on http://www.cagematch.net where you can filter out the house shows per year per worker. Dusty was even beating guys like Rick Martel and Akeem only by DQ or CO. There's a threshold above which guys just didn't get pinned on TV, and below which they did. Having run a few searches, the gatekeeper of this threshold in 1990 was: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Flair I am not sure is a good example of your point Parv. Look at some of those TV matches. He's going 50/50 with Jim Neidhart and getting destroyed by Tito Santana and Shawn Michaels (who's only a bit above Buswhacker Luke in the pecking order) for 90% of the match before getting fluke wins. As a kid my reaction when I saw those matches (didn't have cable but friends did) was "Hogan's gonna kill this loser". Compare that to the way Undertaker completely destroys Jimmy Snuka, a much more effective way of building up a heel. This is really interesting because, going back through some WONs from the late 80s, this was a frequent talking point regarding why Flair didn't have the same appeal for mainstream fans as Hogan. Hogan looked like a superman, and Flair seemed like a weasel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Have a hard time buying Barbarian as a main eventer based on his stuff with Simmons in 1992. I think the bigger problem with putting Barb in the main event at that time is the ring attire. Sorry, but you can't put the title on a guy with antlers and even a 10 year old knows that. Warlord's an interesting choice but I think Vince realized the matches would be bowling shoe ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrickHithouse Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Have a hard time buying Barbarian as a main eventer based on his stuff with Simmons in 1992. I think the bigger problem with putting Barb in the main event at that time is the ring attire. Sorry, but you can't put the title on a guy with antlers and even a 10 year old knows that. Warlord's an interesting choice but I think Vince realized the matches would be bowling shoe ugly. Totally agree with the antlers. I'd say the same about Warload's "W" wand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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