Guest Sass Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 13. Dudley Boys They're still wrestling. Every team you listed, without getting into non-NA teams or thinking about it too much, could have a HOF case made for them. Nice work Sek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sass Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Everyone, name 20 tag teams who you think are HOF worthy. Yes, 20. What's the point? There aren't 20 teams that deserve Hall status. That would seem to make a Tag only HOF unviable. It doesn't really prove their lack of qualification. Right now there are four tag teams in the Hall. The Dusek Family, the Kangaroos, the Freebirds, and the Road Warriors. Given the various issues of the Observer Hall, are the tag teams really hurting their credibility in any way? I can't imagine anything MORE ridiculous than having a separate Tag Team Hall of Fame listing four teams. It's entirely useless. We are not honoring Hawk and Animal, or Terry Gordy and Michael Hayes, or Roy Heffernan and Al Costello as separate individuals. We are honoring TEAMS. But I don't think I'm going to change your mind, and I'm probably wasting my time. Not even Al. I've enjoyed our discussions about the HOF. You're no dummy. Honestly, if a HOF were put together with some thought and *real* care, I wouldn't be opposed to adding tag teams. Gordy should still be inducted on his own though along with the Freebirds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sass Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 20 teams: Gene & Ole Anderson Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody Giant Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta The Von Erich family The Dusek family The Hart Foundation The British Bulldogs Ivan & Nikita Koloff The Rock 'n' Roll Express The Midnight Express The Nasty Boys The Bushwackers The Kangaroos John & Chris Tolos The Samoans Jimmy & Johnny & Jerry Valiant El Santo & the Blue Demon Blackjack Mulligan & Blackjack Lanza Crusher & Dick the Bruiser Black Gordman & Great Goliath If anyone notices, none of those guys are involved with wrestling anymore. As far as I know, none of the guys alive are on Vince's payroll. Bret's nothing but an outsider looking in is how I categorize his current association with the WWE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Are you considering the Hart Foundation Bret and Neidhart or the stable? I don't think there's a case for either group myself, but I do think there are some teams like the Crush Girls and the Holy Demon Army and Misawa/Kobashi that I could see in the HOF. I tried to think of 20 and couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sass Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 I thought I read Chigusa was trying to start up another women's wrestling company in Japan. Are Asuka and Chigusa both retired yet? I suppose I overestimated the Hart Foundation's value since Neidhart really wasn't anyone special in the grand scheme of things. I just focused on the name Hart too much. How about a HOF with Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith? Doug Furnas & Phil LaFon? Kobashi, Kawada, Misawa and Taue are all still wrestling. I don't think a HOF should have active wrestlers in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 The Midnights and Rock N Rolls do a lot of indy stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sass Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Damnit. Okay, I'll just try to think of two more then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 How about Harley Race and Nick Bockwinkel? Steve Williams and Terry Gordy? Mad Dog and Butcher Vachon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sass Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 How about Harley Race and Nick Bockwinkel?They had more success as singles stars than as a team who teamed up, at best, sporadically. Steve Williams and Terry Gordy?? Mad Dog and Butcher Vachon? I believe Williams is still wrestling after having throat cancer surgery. I'm not 100% sure about that though. The Vachons were killers. They terrorized fans and they bought tickets in anticipation for who could hold their own against the Butcher and Mad Dog. They could have got over anywhere if they were pushed like terriers. The Pitbulls were a poor man's Vachons. Mad Dog stuck around too long though. I figured out the next two teams who could replace the Expresses: The Vachons The Moondogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Interesting take. However, I am going to have to disagree with you about a separate Tag Team Hall of Fame. I think the problem is trying to separate wrestling into separate factions when ultimately... it is all wrestling. Tag teams have drawn in the past as teams (whether they had successful singles careers or not). There is also a certain art to being a tag team wrestler that should be recognized esp. if you are going to place someone like Chris Benoit in there for his wrestling ability alone (certainly not his drawing power) or Mick Foley for his successful book, even though he was a fairly limited wrestler who had a fair amount of success. Instead of looking at the Hall of Fame as an institution similar to a sports Hall of Fame where numbers, win-loss records and championships are the only thing to really evaluate someone's worth, I like to compare the wrestling Hall of Fame to something like the music Hall of Fame where there is more fluidity and there are different factors involved. Should we break the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame into separate factions... a soul Hall, a punk hall, an avante garde hall. If that is the case, lets break wrestling into a hardcore hall of fame or lets create the puro hall and the joshi hall. Women should have their own hall of fame. It just doesn't work that way. In the case of music, many successful artists have dabbled in all kinds of music throughout their careers. Look at David Bowie as just one example. In wrestling, look at someone like Terry Funk who has been a brawler, a comedian, a mat technician, a hardcore junky, a great tag team partner, etc. Like musicians, wrestlers wear many different faces. Sometimes, you can be inducted twice. The members of the Beatles were inducted as Beatles and three of them were represented as solo acts. Why should wrestling be different? Especially if you take the position that they are both performance industries, which I do. Another point I want to address is your take that they should be retired before even considered. Once again, if you look at this as performance art then I don't see why they have to be retired esp. when some guys are capable of at least entertaining fans well into their 50s. Same thing with musicians. Just because you are still performing does not mean you should be denied the proper respect or accolades just because you haven't stopped performing. In sports, I can see the reasoning but not in an entertainment industry where the goal is the performance, not the win-loss record which is just worked anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 I think a 20-25 year period is more than fair for evaluating a wrestler's career. Is there any wrestler who debuted before 1985 that we couldn't get a firm grip on their Hall of Fame status? If you limit yourself to no active wrestlers, your Hall loses a great deal of fan interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Let's ask ourselves this. In the realm of all possible things - the most horrible things a person could do personally and professionally - is there anything a Ric Flair or Hulk Hogan or Antonio Inoki could do that would reverse their accomplishments in years past or lessen their initial impact and success? If Ric Flair took a semi-automatic and killed the entire WWE lockerroom at a PPV, would his HOF status be worth reconsidering? If the answer is no, then there's no point in not allowing active wrestlers into the HOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sass Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 They're breaking kayfabe is how I look at it. The juiced up bodybuilder, 9 times out of 10, is going to kick the living dogshit out of the 56 year-old womanizer and a 52 year old roid monkey. It becomes hard to suspend disbelief for Flair and Hogan matches when neither guy can go 5 minutes without blowing up in a match. They become sandbags. Nice argument Helmet. Okay, I suppose Gordy making it into a HOF and the Freebirds making it into the HOF, but no Hayes and Roberts as single stars, could be more of an honor in regards to Gordy's career. He's double dipping but I look at it, now anyways, as a player/manager making it into a HOF, like MLB's Frank Robinson. Okay, forget I said anything about a tag team HOF. But, I'm not going to change my mind on letting in active wrestlers into a HOF. I don't see why current wrestlers need to go in since they're still telling their stories inside the ring, while guys like Baba, Jumbo, and Brody, no longer have a career in wrestling, albeit, through death, unfortunately. Let the guys finish their tales of the ring and then give them their, rightful, spot in the HOF I says. Thanks for jumping into the debate Helmet. I hope there's no hard feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 I'd agree on Buddy Roberts, but anyone who says Michael Hayes doesn't deserve to be in the HOF on his own merits needs to watch tapes of his work in World Class and Mid South. He'd get "I'm going to kill you" heat from the crowd just standing there not doing anything. Hell, you could make an argument just for how he helped make entrances and music a key role in getting over. I can see your point with not having active wrestlers included, but you have to consider a wrestler is never completely retired until death. Even Lou Thesz wrestled when he was 74. It's the nature of the beast that guys (especially now) will always come back for one more payday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 I think you could find an agreeable point where a wrestler is only making so many appearances a year and consider them retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Sass, would Roddy Piper have become eligible for HOF induction in 2004 under your plan? Or would you hold out since he still has a WWE Legends contract and *could* wrestle for them, even though it's been 2+ years since his last match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Sek reinforced the point. Liek musicians, wrestlers never really retire. If you look back at one of the old WO News and Notes threads I created, I gave a list of matches taking place at some wrestle reunion show. half of those guys on the card could be considered HOF material and the Funks were on the card. There is no way anyone can tell me that the Funks (Terry and Dory), even if they still do indy dates, should not CURRENTLY be in a Hall of Fame. Same thing with the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame. Eric Clapton is releasing a new album this year. Do we have to wait until he is no longer playing music to recognize him? Of course not. As long as you recognize wrestling as a performing art, instead of an athletic sport, requirements like retirements aren't needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sass Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Sass, would Roddy Piper have become eligible for HOF induction in 2004 under your plan? Or would you hold out since he still has a WWE Legends contract and *could* wrestle for them, even though it's been 2+ years since his last match.Yeah, I suppose Piper could be eligible then. He's not doing any booking or road agent work and only makes the rare cameo on shows so, for all intents and purposes, yes, he could be eligible. Foley's an odd case since he *is* technically retired. But so is Inoki. So is Choshu. And so is Carlos Colon (maaaany times over). I heard Dory Funk Jr. said he was going to hang up the boots after the last Charlotte legends show where he teamed up with Terry against AMW. In that case, he'd be eligible if he sticks to his word for *at least* a year. Instead of 6 years out of the game like the pros, I suppose a year or two would be a fair entry period of time for recently "retired" wrestlers. If the guy comes back at the 2nd or 3rd year mark of their last "retirement" match, then, okay, they can be a HOF wrestler who still wrestles. It would be like the Washington Redskins head football coach, Joe Gibbs, who first retired in 1993 and was elected into the HOF but came back and joined his old team 2 seasons ago. He's now listed as "Hall of Fame coach, Joe Gibbs!" at games. That's cool I says. Any qualms there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DylanWaco Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Forget the WON HOF and start over I say. The Rock n' Rolls are also still unretired so they're not eligible...or at least they shouldn't be. I heard they broke up but who knows... Everyone, name 20 tag teams who you think are HOF worthy. Yes, 20. I'll name some teams that should at least be on the ballot given the current standards for nomination. The Can Am Express The Steiners Kawada and Taue Misawa and Akiyama Misawa and Kobashi The Road Warriors The Freebirds The Brainbusters The Midnight Express The Rock N Roll Express The Fabulous Ones The Fantastics The Fabulous Kangaroos Dick Murdoch and Adrian Adonis The Funk Brothers There are probably some others I'm missing but that is a rough run through. Of the names on that list the only ones I would definately vote for would be The Roadies, The Birds, The Kangaroos and The Expresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DylanWaco Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 I like the Herders/Whackers as much as the next guy, but I'm struggiling to find a reason that they should be in any HoF over the Fantastics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MJHimJfadeaway23 Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Is Randy Savage already in the WO HOF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Yes. I think he was one of the original 1996 class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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