goodhelmet Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 I received an issue of the Observer on Thursday which is really early for arrival. Then another issue arrived on Friday which makes for a big heap of news. Anyway... TNA Unbreakable Star Ratings 3 Live Kru vs. Diamond, Skipper and Young * Austin aries vs. Roderick Strong ***1/2 Kip James and Monty Brown vs. Apolo & Lance Hoyt *1/4 Chris Sabin vs. Petey Williams *** Abyss vs. Sabu **3/4 Bobby Roode vs. Jeff Hardy ** AMW vs. Andy Douglas & Chase Stevens vs. Team Canada vs. Alex Shelley & ??? *** Raven vs. Rhino (no rating) AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe vs. Chris Daniels ***** (Meltz said this was the best match in company history) Monday Night Wars Scorecard 1. August 29: Spike TV airs commercials for the debut of TNA on its network about 2 hours before RAW is about to begin. 2. September 1: After deciding that UFC did better than RAW in the 25-34 Males demographic, Spike asks UFC to add a 2 hour special to go head to head with Raw's debut on USA. Spike also decides Ultimate Fighter should keep its first run on Monday Nights after the conclusion of RAW instead of moving it to Saturday Nights. 3. September 4: Spike TV adds a 2nd airing of TNA to Monday nights at midnight after Ultimate Fighter. 4. September 6: WWE announces the returns of Austin, Hogan, HHH, Foley and McMahon on the 10/3 Raw. 5. Spike decides to preempt its 8 pm episode of CSI to air a one hour episode of Unleashed. 6. WWE adds a third hour of RAW starting at 8 pm. 7. USA moves the RAW start time to 7:55 to get a jump on Unleashed and adds a 4th hour wit hRaw Exposed after the live RAW ends. --- There will be 11 hours of total UFC and Wrestling on this Monday night. Seven hours will be first run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cam Chaos Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 I reckon the WWE are going to drive more away than they bring in with this kind of overexposure. You can't shovel shit in peoples face for that long without them turning away at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WidowsPeak Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Four hours of WWE Raw? So does that mean 20 minutes of actual wrestling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Sep. 21 Edition Random Notes: --- Samurai! TV is advertising that it will show the ROH Joe-Kobashi match in mid-October. --- The Extremely Hardcore PPV did not air on PPV because there were so few fans from Earthlink Live for the show and and the show was darkened to the point that inDemand felt it was not airable so a different PPV was shown instead. --- Jack Black is filming a movie called Nacho Libre based on 80s luchadore Fray Tormenta, a priest who wrestled to make money for an orphanage. Unlike movies like "Ready to Rumble", the idea is to not make fun of wrestling at all but treat it seriously. One character was supposed to be a bloated, bleach blonde wrestler from the 50s. Greg valentine agreed to do it but never showed up for filming so Bobby Eaton was contacted and agreed to do the role. Meltz says he hopes it is not a speaking role. --- Barry Windham is said to be in really bad shape these days (whatever that means). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 I know Barry Windham was known to be a party guy even by 80s standards, so I'd venture to guess he's either still boozing or he's feeling the effects of all his previous partying. It really makes me sad to hear that, he was one of my favorite wrestlers growing up, he really could have been a much bigger star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 As far as the Unbreakable ratings are concerned, I agree that the 3-Way was Match of the Night (although not 5-star, that constitues a "perfect match" which this wasn't). I agree that Aries/Strong was right behind it at second. What I don't agree with is him having the tag match the same rating as the Williams/Sabin match. I'd have thrown a fourth of a star onto everything just so that Williams/Sabin wouldn't be tied with the same rating as the tag match. Samoa Joe/AJ Styles/Christopher Daniels **** Aries/Strong ***1/4 Williams/Sabin *** I wonder why he didn't give a rating for the Raven/Rhino match? It was at least as good as Hardy/Roode. I'd say they both linger around ** which is right around where I'd put the AMW tag match. Maybe it's just me but it'll never feel like a true "Monday Night War" again unless it's between two different pro-wrestling companies. UFC is a different breed altogether. Not that I don't like it, enjoy watching it, or follow it, but it's tough to compare the two other than that both involve physical contact. I can compare, like, Pride to UFC because I think they're similar. WWE though, I'd need to have it against either TNA or ROH for it feel like a "Monday Night War." Monday is "wrestling night" for me, not "fight night." Did either issue say anything about Brock heading to All Japan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 --- As for the Rhino-Raven match, he probably just forgot to type it on there. --- He discusses Brock and NEW JAPAN which I will get to in a later post. --- As for 5 stars meaning a perfect match, well, no match is perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheShawshankRudotion Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 However, when you have two ***** matches but you consider one better than the other, then problems arise. I don't see this as a Monday Night War only because it's for one night, and I expect a drubbing in terms of ratings (WWE might get a 4.5 vs. UFC's 1.0), so it's not much of a war in that regard. UFC and WWE fight for the same audience, though, and for the same reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 It's possible for two matches to be equally great, just like it's possible for two matches to be equally bad. Calling a match *****, to me, says that you're saying it's as great as any match that has ever taken place. You may prefer Misawa/Kawada 6/3/94 over the 6/9/95 tag, as an example, but you're also willing to admit that it's not outlandish to say the reverse is true. At least that's my personal little policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Was there something in either WON about HHH and co. trying to bury CM Punk already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Punk hurt himself in his first OVW match, so HHH can relax for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Someone had a post supposedly from Meltzer saying that HHH, Michaels and Hayes were all doing a burial job on him backstage after his first Heat match under contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Was there something in either WON about HHH and co. trying to bury CM Punk already? Yes, I'll get to that next also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Expect Keller to take the side of HHH and HBK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 So who wants to take an over/under on Punk getting released in the post-Mania purging next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Brock Lesnar and New Japan --- Chono stated Lesnar would be wrestling on the 10/8 Dome show for New Japan. --- The WWE and Lesnar lawsuits are still ongoing. --- Inoki spoke about Lesnar coming and said he wanted him to be the biggest star of the company. He wants Lesnar to face Fujita for the title which might not be a possibility on the 10/8 show since Fujita is injured. --- Several press copnferences have been postponed in an attempt to get Lesnar signed. It would be a clear breach of his no-compete clause BUT the argument for Lesnar would be that when WWE stopped his merchandise money in January that they were the ones in breach. --- With no official matches announced for the show, there is zero advance on ticket sales right now. --- If the Fujita-Lesnar match could not take place (with Lesnar winning the belt), than Chono was hoping for a Chono-Lesnar match for the title after Fujita was stripped due to his injury. --- Lesnar did an interview on 9/11 for Weekly Gong magazine saing he missed wrestling and that he did not choose New Japan over WWE because of money but he wanted to do serious wrestling. He noted that when he left WWE for football he was going to take a paycut and that money is not his motivation. He is interested in facing Fujita or Chono. --- Lesanr has no MMA training so it is clear he will not go in that direction. --- Right now, New Japan and TNA are showing the most interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 They won't release Punk because they know he's valuable elsewhere. I always thought he'd end up as the new Chris Jericho in WWE, and so far, it looks like they're proving me right. The problems he's facing early on are almost identical to the ones Jericho faced early on, although it may be a little worse for Punk just because Jericho at least was pushed as a star right out of the gate, even if he was portrayed as a bumbling, overmatched star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheShawshankRudotion Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 If you asked Meltzer "which match is better - Misawa/Kawada or the TNA 3 way" I'm fairly confident that he'd say Misawa/Kawada. But his ratings do not suggest that. His ratings say they are equal. So there is either a flaw in the rating system (would Misawa/Kawada be *****+**?), or a flaw with the rater. I also am fairly confident that he'd say "Well, I've watched wrestling long enough to know what a ***** match feels like, and both matches felt like ***** matches". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Do you think that extends itself to film critics and music critics, who also typically use a star ratings system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheShawshankRudotion Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Genres are more important in film and music, but for the most part, yes I do. Ratings are only as good as the other pieces that are rated by the reviewer, and if you keep giving things the same rating despite the thought that one is not as good as another, the rating becomes meaningless. I'm not saying that you can't have more than one ***** (though it's the way I do things, aka the best way ), it's just, a problem exists when you start using it frequently, and that problem I've already explained. I think its better to re-grade previous ***** matches in relation to other ***** matches and see if they hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 CM Punk already getting buried Verbatim from the WO... CM Punk has just reported to OVW. For those wanting to say, "I told you so," as if there was any mystery this would happen, Punk was buried on his Heat apearance backstage, in particular by HHH, Michaels and Hayes. The line on him was that he didn't know how to get over, and that the way he wrestles is like he's doing a simulated wrestling match and not working a wrestling match. Don't worry, no matter what he did, being an unknown who isn't physically impressive by thier standard going out cold, he wasn't going to get a reaction, and the all knowing types were going to say that. And the truth is, there is an entirely different standard and style of working and getting over before 500 in a small room and 5,000 in a 15,000 seat arena and like everything else, it does have to be learned, but it;s a complete joke when people pick on people as not being able to work who have learned to be good at small room just because they walk into the big room and instantly get over. I saw enough Punk in ROH where I could see from a WWE standard of working, that he had weaknsesses that would show up when he got there, but he was good enough where he was that the odds were he'd overcome them given some experience. Having what they consider a paper reputation as a great worker (if he hasn't proven to be a great worker in WWE rings, then he's inherently unable to work, in some people's eyes) made criticism of his work pretty much a lock even before he locked up. Not going over on a debut after never being on WWE TV is almost a guaranteed lock. An unknown, no matter how talented, doesn't get over to the WWE audience unless they do an over-the-top gimmick, because that's an audience there to see stars. When Christopher Daniels and Michael Modest debuted in WCW in 2000, as indie stars, the big stars gathered around, and laughed at everything they did and proclaimed they didn't know how to work. You know who laughed the loudest? Lex Luger and Buff Bagwell. Bu Punk should do fine because he can talk, and because Heyman likes him. Hopefully, like Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, and Jericho did as time went on, he'll also eventually learn "how to work." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 I remember reading somewhere that people in WWE thought that Frankie Kazarian felt that he "knew the business better than WWE" because he didn't agree with how they were handling his career. I wonder if they're the same people who think that anyone who didn't get over in WWE first "doesn't know how to work". I've never seen a system so geared to make people fail than WWE. If you've gotten over in other feds and have input on how your career should go, then you're accused of having an ego problem. If you put things entirely in WWE's hands, then you're told you don't know how to work if you don't instantly catch on to WWE Main Event Style. Of course if you're a hoss it doesn't matter, since you'll get put on TV immediately, regardless of your actual ability or skill level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Rereading it, I could have sworn Meltz mentions the hypocrisy since Masters has not even sniffed being over, yet they continue to forcefeed him down our throats despite not being over OR knowing how to work. When I read the newsletters again, I'll see if I can find the exact quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 What's the deal with Masters anyway? I don't think he's hoss material, what's getting him the Jesus Push? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheShawshankRudotion Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Vince loves Bodybuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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