BillThompson Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 It still gets defended all over the world, and it has very impressive lineage, so I say it definitely counts as a world title still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Severn did beat Hashimoto for the belt in Japan. I really just included it because it was in the original listing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted September 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Severn did beat Hashimoto for the belt in Japan. I really just included it because it was in the original listing. Which is probably the worst part of that whole saga for me. Specifically, that the NWA opted to select a dud like Severn to go over a major Japanese talent like Hashimoto in Korakuen Hall (even if it was by nefarious means). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 It still gets defended all over the world, and it has very impressive lineage, so I say it definitely counts as a world title still. If you believe the carny rasslin' promoters that claim it's the same lineage, sure. In reality, the NWA has been dead for decades. Even if you think it's still alive and still the same, it's no longer a major league promotion and therefore no longer a World Title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 I'd imagine that the fact that Severn was a totally legit bad motherfucker was a big part of why he was champ. (And seperately, he's a hell of a nice guy.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 It still gets defended all over the world, and it has very impressive lineage, so I say it definitely counts as a world title still. If you believe the carny rasslin' promoters that claim it's the same lineage, sure. In reality, the NWA has been dead for decades. Even if you think it's still alive and still the same, it's no longer a major league promotion and therefore no longer a World Title. It's not really a carny thing though, it's lineage can easily be traced, I've done it a few times myself. Regardless of the state of the NWA presently the title has always remained a prominent title, and given it's brief association with TNA and its present associations with NJPW it's still at a level of prominence that warrants its world title status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 It's not really a carny thing though, it's lineage can easily be traced, I've done it a few times myself. Regardless of the state of the NWA presently the title has always remained a prominent title, and given it's brief association with TNA and its present associations with NJPW it's still at a level of prominence that warrants its world title status. NJPW, maybe. TNA, no way. I just can't buy TNA as credible. And how can you clearly trace the lineage of the NWA Title? WWE (the World Heavyweight Title before it was merged), TNA (the original NWA-TNA belt), and the current NWA have all claimed to have titles that can be traced back to the original. If the current NWA indy promotion (or whatever it is) has created a coherent timeline and title history, good for them, but I still don't buy that title as the same one held by Flair, Thesz, etc. Even if it is somehow technically the same lineage, that means very little to me. I can't rationally consider it a World Title in 2014 (there's more to being a "World" Championship than just being defended internationally, which is an old-fashioned, outdated, passe standard to apply to modern-day wrestling anyway). Sears was once a powerhouse in the retail world, but do we still hold it in the same esteem because of what it used to be, or do we face reality and acknowledge Sears for what it is today? That's kind of how I look at the current NWA. Honest question: Do you work for the NWA by any chance? I'm asking because you seem to be defending them rather passionately - far more than is warranted for such an irrelevant ghost of a group IMO. It may be fun to attend their shows - I'm sure they have great wrestlers, exciting matches, an interesting partnership with NJPW, etc. - but 99% of wrestling fans don't realize they exist anymore. The ship really has sailed on the NWA being anything meaningful and impactful in wrestling. At best, they're probably a very good U.S. indy promotion (or group of promotions, as the case may be) with slightly longer legs in Japan (if even that), but that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Nope, I don;t work for NWA, I just fail to see how their lineage doesn't somehow matter anymore. It's not like a huge amount of people know about RoH, or heck even NJPW, but I doubt anyone would question their titles. There's really no reason to question the validity of the title either because in just about every metric the title still ends up as a credible world title. It is remarkably easy to trace the NWA title lineage though, as it has at every step of the way been clearly tied to one promotion or another. You want to question the validity of TNA, but I'm not sure if you could find a million fans of NJPW who would tune into a TV show of theirs week after week. They've never been a global company that goes after those sort of numbers, but in terms of reach TNA has reached more people and gets talked about in wrestling circles just as much as NJPW. But, in the end that doesn't truly matter because the NWA has been smart enough to tie themselves to various independent organizations and larger groups like TNA and NJPW so that they would stay in the wrestling public eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 The Apter mags did briefly recognize the NWA World Title as a World Title again during the later part of their TNA association. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negro Suave Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Can someone explain the Dan Severn hate? He was bland but he was at least believable before the buy a title reign NWA championship decisions that we have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted September 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Can someone explain the Dan Severn hate? He was bland but he was at least believable before the buy a title reign NWA championship decisions that we have now. Well, from a personal POV, I just hated all those legitimate martial artists and MMA guys they brought into wrestling in the late 1990's, because very few of them actually "got it". It begun with Shamrock, who did "get wrestling" to a degree, and because of his success, both WWF and WCW thought they could try and duplicate it with other names. It ended up turning into a clusterfuck of guys who were boring to watch, yet who were receiving sustained-effort booking at the expense of actual professional wrestlers who people did want to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Nope, I don;t work for NWA, I just fail to see how their lineage doesn't somehow matter anymore. It's not like a huge amount of people know about RoH, or heck even NJPW, but I doubt anyone would question their titles. There's really no reason to question the validity of the title either because in just about every metric the title still ends up as a credible world title. It is remarkably easy to trace the NWA title lineage though, as it has at every step of the way been clearly tied to one promotion or another. You want to question the validity of TNA, but I'm not sure if you could find a million fans of NJPW who would tune into a TV show of theirs week after week. They've never been a global company that goes after those sort of numbers, but in terms of reach TNA has reached more people and gets talked about in wrestling circles just as much as NJPW. But, in the end that doesn't truly matter because the NWA has been smart enough to tie themselves to various independent organizations and larger groups like TNA and NJPW so that they would stay in the wrestling public eye. I'm not saying the history of the NWA Title doesn't matter - of course it still does - but I don't think the current NWA matters a lick. The fact is, ROH and NJPW are both more well-known and relevant in this day and age than the current NWA. NJPW, to my knowledge, has always been a major league promotion - even if it's never had much (or any) U.S. presence. America is a very important market, of course, but it's not the only market. Japan is still a pretty big, significant country in its own right. But how highly regarded is the NWA there because of its association with NJPW? I don't know for sure, and I'll admit that, but I'm willing to bet not very. Anyway, I don't know if we should keep going 'round and 'round on this. You clearly have your own feelings about the NWA, which are more positive than mine, and that's cool. As much as I'd love for the NWA to mean something in 2014, it will never be what it once was. It can't be. The industry has changed too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Can someone explain the Dan Severn hate? He was bland but he was at least believable before the buy a title reign NWA championship decisions that we have now. Well, from a personal POV, I just hated all those legitimate martial artists and MMA guys they brought into wrestling in the late 1990's, because very few of them actually "got it". It begun with Shamrock, who did "get wrestling" to a degree, and because of his success, both WWF and WCW thought they could try and duplicate it with other names. It ended up turning into a clusterfuck of guys who were boring to watch, yet who were receiving sustained-effort booking at the expense of actual professional wrestlers who people did want to watch. To be fair to Shamrock though, he had been a Pro Wrestler since about 1989 or something before he got into the shoot game. In fact, didn't he get into the shoots through an association with Dean Malenko or something? I could swear reading something to that effect in his awful book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Can someone explain the Dan Severn hate? He was bland but he was at least believable before the buy a title reign NWA championship decisions that we have now. I love Dan Severn, if only for his match against Tarzan Goto in IWA Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 Can someone explain the Dan Severn hate? He was bland but he was at least believable before the buy a title reign NWA championship decisions that we have now. I love Dan Severn, if only for his match against Tarzan Goto in IWA Japan. Dan Severn was awesome. Loved both he and Shamrock's time in WWE, wish Severn's was longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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