PTBN SummerSlam 2014 Reaction Show - Will, Scott, Kris & Dylan

[Bigelow34]

Will is joined by PTBN’s very own Scott Criscuolo, Dylan from Wrestling Culture and historian Kris Zellner. Will Cesaro be released in the next 6 months? Are the WWE Divas finally getting their act together? Is it finally time for Randy Orton to go away? Did Stephanie steal her outfit from Diesel? Is John Cena now a broken man? The answers to all this and much more! ​

http://placetobenation.com/place-to-be-network-summerslam-2014-reaction/

[Matt D]

I made it to the start of the Ambrose stuff and Dylan being wrong about the gimmick before I had to stop listening due to time constraints. BUT I want to call out Kris on something.

 

Re: Rusev. It was a great performance. It was very good selling. It was especially good due to the fact he's got so little in the way of main roster experience. The problem I have with overhyping it is that i feel that a huge majority of the roster could probably have done a comparable job if they were put out there by the agents and told to do so. It was so one-dimensional a match in that regard that it was less challenging than managing that selling as part of a broader whole. It stood out because they don't do it much but I don't know how much that has to do with Rusev being somehow special or whether he was just lucky to be put in a situation where he got to show off something that most guys usually don't get to show.

 

I loved it but I do think you have to keep that in mind.

[Dylan Waco]

Honestly Matt coming out in support of that gimmick and how it was applied tells me his "logic is what is important to me" talking point is just a long term troll job

[Matt D]

I wish i was that talented and dedicated.

[goodhelmet]

You are pretty dedicated!!!

[KrisZ]

I made it to the start of the Ambrose stuff and Dylan being wrong about the gimmick before I had to stop listening due to time constraints. BUT I want to call out Kris on something.

 

Re: Rusev. It was a great performance. It was very good selling. It was especially good due to the fact he's got so little in the way of main roster experience. The problem I have with overhyping it is that i feel that a huge majority of the roster could probably have done a comparable job if they were put out there by the agents and told to do so. It was so one-dimensional a match in that regard that it was less challenging than managing that selling as part of a broader whole. It stood out because they don't do it much but I don't know how much that has to do with Rusev being somehow special or whether he was just lucky to be put in a situation where he got to show off something that most guys usually don't get to show.

 

I loved it but I do think you have to keep that in mind.

 

That's a fair point but still Rusev was selling while on offense which is a natural thing IMO. Watch him as he gets the Accolade on Swagger and notice the grimacing pain on his face as he put that foot down on the mat.

[Matt D]

Selling on offense is the greatest thing in the world. That said, It was so blatant that I figured someone had to take him aside and specifically tell him to do it. That doesn't make it less of a positive trait and hopefully it's something he keeps in mind in the future, now that he successfully done it once, but I still thought it was a point worth raising.

[KrisZ]

Every time he was put in the Patriot Lock before last night he sold it. I remember one show it may have been the PPV last month where after he beat Swagger down as he was walking to the back he was limping. I agree let's see if this is sustained but last night was definitely nice to see

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Selling on offense is the greatest thing in the world.

Yes.

[shoe]

I'm about 1/2 way through this pod. Liking it even with Will busting out let's turn the Paige line. So far I 'm with Dylan the most. Where were you when I had no support on the disrespecting the stip, and even said Ambrose came across as a stupid babyface. The Flag match was great and really tapped an emotion. I feel Swagger has upside and this feud has really got the crowd behind him. The crowd likes to chant we the

People. I'm obviously higher on him than the panel. I'd like to see Sheamus turn heel and Swagger go after the U.S title. Will you are completely wrong about it would be ok to lose a capture the flag match. I have no idea what to do with Bray. Jericho feels like a relic.

[Matt D]

 

Selling on offense is the greatest thing in the world.

Yes.

 

I bet all of us would agree on that but Will, who would go with headbutts.

[cpst]

My favorite discussion on the podcast was the one about Reigns / Orton. After the match (and based on sentiment from the Battleground main event), I felt like Reigns was showing weaknesses as a "video game wrestler" who just hits a handful of big offensive moves that are over, but isn't able to draw in the crowd in the connective tissue of a match. Orton was even getting some big face pops from the crowd in the middle of the match, and they usually don't care that much about Orton.

 

Will made a good point that for the most part, this isn't a problem with Reigns; it's a problem with the layout of the match. There's nothing wrong with him being a total badass. His charisma, or the feeling that he is the "coolest guy in the room", during matches is not soley an intrinsic property of him as a human being. It has a lot to do with how he was booked as part of the Shield, and they aren't carrying that same philosophy into his singles matches.

[shoe]

I thought the talking point about Reigns not being ready vs. The agent shouldn't have put Reigns in this situation. I think it's a little bit of both. I feel Reign's should be booked like Superman. The WWE doesn't do that well. They seem to think a guy needs to go .Reign's isn't ready to work 20 minute matches, but he 's ready to be Superman.

It's like that Watts story. Ladd the booker put the hot new star JYD with Super Destroyer and did a 20 minute broadway . Ladd tells Watts that JYD's tongue was hanging out he can't go. Watts goes I don't want to know if he can go 20. I want him to be my new superstar. So then they book to his strengths.

[Matt D]

Ok, Rusev continued to sell the ankle last night. Million billion stars.

[goodhelmet]

 

 

Selling on offense is the greatest thing in the world.

Yes.

 

I bet all of us would agree on that but Will, who would go with headbutts.

 

 

Bonus points if the headbutts lead to a hardway cut.

[The Chief]

Great show guys.

 

Rusev reminds me of Yokozuna in that he's fantastic with facial expressions and sells just enough to look strong without killing his monster aura. He's on my top five WWE workers of the year list.

[pol]

I guess I'm the only person who found Rusev's selling kind of overwrought?

[WingedEagle]

I thought Rusev did a fantastic job selling the ankle. But it seemed like this was the wrong time and opponent for him to sell that much. Pretty impressive to see what he can do though.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I made it to the start of the Ambrose stuff and Dylan being wrong about the gimmick before I had to stop listening due to time constraints. BUT I want to call out Kris on something.

 

Re: Rusev. It was a great performance. It was very good selling. It was especially good due to the fact he's got so little in the way of main roster experience. The problem I have with overhyping it is that i feel that a huge majority of the roster could probably have done a comparable job if they were put out there by the agents and told to do so. It was so one-dimensional a match in that regard that it was less challenging than managing that selling as part of a broader whole. It stood out because they don't do it much but I don't know how much that has to do with Rusev being somehow special or whether he was just lucky to be put in a situation where he got to show off something that most guys usually don't get to show.

 

I loved it but I do think you have to keep that in mind.

I think we agree regardless of the fact that agent told Rusev to sell throughout the match versus the old school think where Rusev would have had to contributed that on his own that this was good shit and we can't credit or fault Rusev for the current operating environment. So I don't want to belabor the talking point I had in the past with friends on the overemphasis on praising singer-songwriters versus those who just sing. Everybody has their role that maximizes their value. Some great artists like Elvis are best suited for singers and don't make them any less worthy of praise than a singer-songwriter. It is great that wrestlers used to call it in the ring, but now it is time for those who can execute. At the end of the day, even if Rusev was told to do it, it is up to him to execute. How many times have we seen wrestlers blow off selling or forget about it. It could have been very simple for Rusev to get caught up in his offense and neglect to sell.

 

Where we disagree is that if you insert another member of the roster into a similar match that same praise would be given. What made this so impactful was that Rusev has been this unstoppable force, but last month Swagger was able to wound him with the Patriot Lock and almost get a countout. Rusev sold that through his finish and the next night on RAW. From there Rusev tried to jumpstart the match, but it backfired and Swagger slaps on the Patriot Lock again to great effect. It was the perfect confluence of how Rusev had been built up, previous match storytelling and Rusev's excellent execution. If they did something similar in Miz/Ziggler or Paige/AJ I don't think would be as effective because those feuds don't have the same heat and build. To me it does not matter who the brains because you could tell two wrestlers the greatest layout in the world, but as a fan I ain't going to see that. i am going to see the match that those wrestlers put out. Rusev executed the vision of the agent to great effect and deserves all the credit for doing just that.

 

 

 

 

[Bigelow34]

I think Will broke his already impressive "Fuck" count during his defense of Roman Reigns.

 

Fuck.

[Matt D]

 

I made it to the start of the Ambrose stuff and Dylan being wrong about the gimmick before I had to stop listening due to time constraints. BUT I want to call out Kris on something.

 

Re: Rusev. It was a great performance. It was very good selling. It was especially good due to the fact he's got so little in the way of main roster experience. The problem I have with overhyping it is that i feel that a huge majority of the roster could probably have done a comparable job if they were put out there by the agents and told to do so. It was so one-dimensional a match in that regard that it was less challenging than managing that selling as part of a broader whole. It stood out because they don't do it much but I don't know how much that has to do with Rusev being somehow special or whether he was just lucky to be put in a situation where he got to show off something that most guys usually don't get to show.

 

I loved it but I do think you have to keep that in mind.

I think we agree regardless of the fact that agent told Rusev to sell throughout the match versus the old school think where Rusev would have had to contributed that on his own that this was good shit and we can't credit or fault Rusev for the current operating environment. So I don't want to belabor the talking point I had in the past with friends on the overemphasis on praising singer-songwriters versus those who just sing. Everybody has their role that maximizes their value. Some great artists like Elvis are best suited for singers and don't make them any less worthy of praise than a singer-songwriter. It is great that wrestlers used to call it in the ring, but now it is time for those who can execute. At the end of the day, even if Rusev was told to do it, it is up to him to execute. How many times have we seen wrestlers blow off selling or forget about it. It could have been very simple for Rusev to get caught up in his offense and neglect to sell.

 

Where we disagree is that if you insert another member of the roster into a similar match that same praise would be given. What made this so impactful was that Rusev has been this unstoppable force, but last month Swagger was able to wound him with the Patriot Lock and almost get a countout. Rusev sold that through his finish and the next night on RAW. From there Rusev tried to jumpstart the match, but it backfired and Swagger slaps on the Patriot Lock again to great effect. It was the perfect confluence of how Rusev had been built up, previous match storytelling and Rusev's excellent execution. If they did something similar in Miz/Ziggler or Paige/AJ I don't think would be as effective because those feuds don't have the same heat and build. To me it does not matter who the brains because you could tell two wrestlers the greatest layout in the world, but as a fan I ain't going to see that. i am going to see the match that those wrestlers put out. Rusev executed the vision of the agent to great effect and deserves all the credit for doing just that.

 

I don't disagree with a lot of what you said. I did think that I had to say what I said, however, if only because it needed to be raised. I'm fine with then people dismissing it. It was playing devil's advocate.

 

Where I disagree is the last sentence. I think over time, you can figure that out. Like I said, if this is something that Rusev, coming out of this match, comes to appreciate, and it's something that plays into his matches for years to come, then that's great, and I think at some point, it will become very easy to start to attribute that to him. In the scope of one or two nights, no, not yet. He can get all the credit in the world for the execution of it, however.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I think you misinterpreted my last sentence. Your last sentence was how I intended my last sentence to sound. Alls well that ends well.

[goodhelmet]

I think Will broke his already impressive "Fuck" count during his defense of Roman Reigns.

 

Fuck.

It just flies out of my mouth.