Brock Lesnar

[El McKell]

1 hour ago, Mantaur Rodeo Clown said:

thousands of wrestlers have been given big pushes in history, and very few ever became the spectacle that Brock Lesnar was and still is to this day.

I think this misses the point being made when someone talks about how important how he was treated and presented by the WWE in his post 2012 run is. Many wrestlers get pushed but very few get to have the advantage of their aura being increased by being allowed to break the company's usual rules, which made him totally unique in that environment.

Brock felt like an unbelievable spectacle in the 2010s because of a combination of his own talent and being allowed to do things that the WWE would not allow anyone else to do. The two biggest matches for making Brock what he was in the 2010s were the Cena matches at extreme rules 2012 and summerslam 2014, both of these were structed in a way that WWE never presents matches which is why they are so memorable. Although less impactful the two Brock-Goldberg matches from late 16-early 17 are good almost entirely due to not fitting in with typical WWE at the time, if main events even occasionally were 90 second squash upsets or 5 minutes of only finishers neither of these matches would be good at all.

Brock deserves some of the credit for being such a spectacle in the 2010s, but so does the fact that he was presented so differently from everyone else in WWE in a era where most of the product was formulaic. How to split that credit is a tough decision for me to make.

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

2 minutes ago, El McKell said:

I think this misses the point being made when someone talks about how important how he was treated and presented by the WWE in his post 2012 run is. Many wrestlers get pushed but very few get to have the advantage of their aura being increased by being allowed to break the company's usual rules, which made him totally unique in that environment.

Brock felt like an unbelievable spectacle in the 2010s because of a combination of his own talent and being allowed to do things that the WWE would not allow anyone else to do. The two biggest matches for making Brock what he was in the 2010s were the Cena matches at extreme rules 2012 and summerslam 2014, both of these were structed in a way that WWE never presents matches which is why they are so memorable. Although less impactful the two Brock-Goldberg matches from late 16-early 17 are good almost entirely due to not fitting in with typical WWE at the time, if main events even occasionally were 90 second squash upsets or 5 minutes of only finishers neither of these matches would be good at all.

Brock deserves some of the credit for being such a spectacle in the 2010s, but so does the fact that he was presented so differently from everyone else in WWE in a era where most of the product was formulaic. How to split that credit is a tough decision for me to make.

I mean it's the problem with compiling a list like this in the first place. Where would Andre the Giant rank if he was just losing the opening match on every card in three minutes? Booking and perception can be impossible to separate, we just do the best we can.

I think the counter-argument is that only Brock would be accepted with this sort of booking, due to the unique physical and reputational qualities he possesses. Because no one else in pro wrestling history has ever gone to win a UFC title after their WWE debut. While it doesn't strictly make him a better pro wrestler, it undeniably adds to his aura. Hence why Lesnar was really the best option for ending the streak.

As I've said before, many people have been handed the keys to the kingdom and given big wins. But few have had the impact of Brock. How many "passing the torch" moments did Reigns need to get over, 8? 9? Booking is a big part of things, but it isn't everything. Lesnar clearly has a way of connecting with fans that an overwhelming majority of other workers in the history of the business do not. Whether that's his great looking offense, his tremendous selling or something else entirely, is up for discussion.

[funkdoc]

The promo thing is so weird to me because he WAS good at that...in UFC.  Like that was a big part of the draw with him there, that he was this cocky fake wrestler talking shit to all the Ultimate Fighters(tm).

Maybe it's that he's fine doing sports-style interviews but not wrestling promos, per se?

[Ma Stump Puller]

2 hours ago, funkdoc said:

The promo thing is so weird to me because he WAS good at that...in UFC.  Like that was a big part of the draw with him there, that he was this cocky fake wrestler talking shit to all the Ultimate Fighters(tm).

Maybe it's that he's fine doing sports-style interviews but not wrestling promos, per se?

he was quite good at taped promos, his Cena one prepping to the 2012 match comes to mind

 

 

[Tetsujin]

1 hour ago, funkdoc said:

The promo thing is so weird to me because he WAS good at that...in UFC.  Like that was a big part of the draw with him there, that he was this cocky fake wrestler talking shit to all the Ultimate Fighters(tm).

Maybe it's that he's fine doing sports-style interviews but not wrestling promos, per se?

I believe that's because usually pro wrestling teaches you about micwork much better than shoot sports. Even (some would say specially) WWE. Brock being decent there at best is still enough for him to be great on UFC at the mic.