Meet the WoS Wrestlers

[GSR]

Parv, Kidd is a legendary figure and as far as I know not a shred of footage of him wrestling exists (pre-70s guy)

 

There is also a tag bout with Lee Thomas against Blackjack Mulligan & Tally Ho Kaye that was recorded on the same show as that singles match (08.30.75 in Wolverhampton), neither are anything to write home about, but it does give you a bit of a glimpse into Kidd and what he was about.

[ohtani's jacket]

I'd have to check, but I don't think he was on TV that regularly. He seems to be a guy who a lot of people have memories of seeing live.

[JerryvonKramer]

Question that has come out of some viewing: do the 70s WoS guys ever do suplexes and other such throws? Seems like most "throws" result from flinging a guy by the head or body part from matwork.

 

Is there a moment when they start doing more "moves"? I don't ask this out of any complaint -- it's all incredibly easy to watch and enjoy -- but out of curiosity about style. Guys like Dynamite Kid and Billy Robinson who came out of Britain to work elsewhere have plenty of "bombs", but I don't see guys working like that on 70s WoS. Does McManus ever do suplexes? Does Breaks?

[ohtani's jacket]

I'm trying to think but nothing springs to mind immediately. If there was a guy who used suplexes regularly then I imagine it would have been his specialty and used to end a fall. I doubt if McManus ever threw a suplex. The guys who did more moves in the 70s were the new breed of workers like Rocco and Jones. The older guys were a thousand years old and did the same shtick they'd been at since the 50s.

[Jetlag]

I think the closest thing to a "bomb" type move was Ken Joyce's tombstone piledriver. I also remember someone doing a reverse powerbomb of all things, but it was merely to set up a pinning combo. Even something like a powerbomb is done almost gently placing the guy on his shoulders for a pin. I always found this a really cool and unique thing about WoS that it's more about fighting for a pin or submission using your wrestling, instead of knocking the other guy out until he stayed down for a 3 count. Other moves were stuff like hip tosses or back drops that would cause the other guy to take a hard bump. I think Hoffmann used his side suplex almost like a finisher in AJPW and Robinson too with the Butterfly one.

[ohtani's jacket]

You should watch the one Billy Robinson WoS bout we have on tape and see how it differs from the US and Japan stuff he was doing at the time. It's a bout against a young fella named Lee Bronson, which disappointed some of the fans over at Wrestling Heritage who would have rather seen him take on a bigger name.

 

[dawho5]

Would love to see rounds 4,5 and the beginning of 6 of that Haward vs. Cortez bout. Great stuff. Cortez is like Dean Malenko, only he makes all of his smooth/cool mat stuff mean something instead of just doing it. Which makes him pretty damn incredible.

[ohtani's jacket]

This might interest you Parv as a guy made a video about the moves in WoS:

 

 

I listened to Regal on Austin's podcast yesterday and he has a theory that the reason the British style was generally more technical than the American style is that the rings were smaller and rock hard. I suspect it has a lot to do with the Admiral-Lord Mountevans rules myself, but it's as good a theory as any.

[ohtani's jacket]

Here's a wrestler known to most of you, Chris Adams, against a man who needs no introduction, Dave "Fit" Finlay, back in his hoodlum days before he hooked up with Princess Paula and became the mulleted Finlay you all know and love.

 

Before Sayama came over and stunned everyone with his speed and quickness, there was a sensation in British rings by the name of Kung Fu. This was after he unmasked against one of Steven Regal's idols, Cyanide Sid Cooper:

 

[ohtani's jacket]

There's wrestlers and then there's wrestlers' wrestlers, and Colin Joynson was a wrestler's wrestler. A powerful, powerful man. Steve Regal recommended this match recently on twitter, so I will too:

 

 

Bob Kirkwood, could have been your gym teacher but another pro's pro. Watch him carry young prospect John Carlo to a thoroughly decent match:

 

[JerryvonKramer]

Here is the aforementioned podcast on WoS: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/27869-titans-xtra/?p=5636450

[ohtani's jacket]

I'll have to check that out later.

 

One of my favourite unheralded guys, Johnny South, against Chris Adams' running partner Ringo Rigby;

 

The indestructible Skull Murphy, one of the better bruisers in the industry during the 1980s:

 

[BillThompson]

OJ, is there a promotion for the much ballyhooed Davies/Veidor match?

[ohtani's jacket]

It was from the Royal Albert Hall so it would have been promoted by Dale Martin Promotions under the Joint Promotions banner. Joint Promotions was made up of six different promotions, some of which were owned by the group and some of which were affiliated -- http://prowrestling.wikia.com/wiki/Joint_Promotions. Joint owned Dale Martin and for all intents and purposes they were the same thing. In order to save confusion, I usually refer to WoS as Joint Promotions, but there are a lot of people (especially the wrestlers) who refer to it as Dale Martin. Perhaps John will chime in with how he thinks the matches should be labeled.

[BillThompson]

Joint Promotions is what I've seen pop up online in most places, thanks for the info.

[Jetlag]

Watching some of these bouts which I havent checked out before

 

Ray Steele vs. Pat Roach

 

This was a really solid but unspectacular match. If you like your heavys smashing eachother with forearm blows and knees definitely watch this. Also really liked all of Roach's throws, you could tell Waltons Judo talk wasnt bullshit. Hurt by lack of build and three short finishes

 

Alan Woods vs. Vic Faulkner

 

Man this was good. The opening technical stuff was nice if you can stand Faulkner. Then Woods goes after the leg like a fat kid after the last piece of candy. He doesn't even act overly heelish, just rips it up and is a bit of an asshole about it and the crowd loathes him. Faulkner gets super fired up and man watching him here makes me want to put him in my Top 100 because when this guy is fired up he is unbelievably great. Really good showcase match for Faulkner and Woods killed it too.

 

Bert Royal vs. Steve Logan

 

This was another awesome match, really hard fought brutal mat brawl. Royal is a real dick for a babyface and Logan looked tough as nails (probably due to him not reacting to anything). Not much fancy technical stuff, instead you get plenty of nasty bootscrapes, hits to the throat and Logan throwing punches that look like they weigh a ton. Royal actually reminded me a little of Axel Dieter in this. This was as rugged and nasty as WoS gets.

 

Johnny England vs. Kid Chocolate

 

England reminded me of these 5'7"ish bodybuilders you will see at the university gym. I think that gimmick would still work well today. This match was a fairly good mix of heat mongering and wrestling and kind of felt like it could take place anywhere in the world. England did every trick in the book, including dropping his opponent on his hard head in dangerous fashion after the bell.

[dawho5]

So I've seen 3 Breaks matches so far and I have to say that he's fast becoming a favorite. Jim Breaks working over an arm is glorious. Steve Grey trying over and over again to turn the Breaks special around on him is almost as good. I still favor the Street match for the great escalation throughout, but I have yet to watch the rematch with Grey.

[GSR]

What's the other Breaks match that you've seen apart from the Street and Grey ones?

[dawho5]

The 3rd was Jon Cortez. Also a really great wrestling match. Looking forward to Breaks wrestling Vic Faulkner also. Faulkner got scrappy against Woods, I would guess Breaks gets the same reaction. And Faulkner's cheeky comedy can't possibly help Jim Breaks' mood.

[GSR]

The 3rd was Jon Cortez. Also a really great wrestling match. Looking forward to Breaks wrestling Vic Faulkner also. Faulkner got scrappy against Woods, I would guess Breaks gets the same reaction. And Faulkner's cheeky comedy can't possibly help Jim Breaks' mood.

 

If that's the one from 05.26.76 that's probably my favourite WOS bout from the 70s so far, and as a note that was held on the same card as the Gwyn Davies vs Steve Veidor match that everyone on here was so high on. I've not seen the Faulkner match yet but can just picture the constant tantrums and incessant complaining to the ref, Kent Walton and anyone who'll listen!

 

[dawho5]

Breaks vs. Faulkner is one of the best wrestling matches I have seen hands down. Faulkner is not his usual self at all, coming in angry due to Breaks baiting him into a punch that the ref saw and DQed Faulkner (to take away the title on the line in this match no less) in their previous match. Either that didn't make tape or it's not on youtube. Whichever one it is, that is just plain criminal. Off the charts awesome by both and if you like any WoS at all I'd say it's a match to see for sure.

[JNLister]

It was from the Royal Albert Hall so it would have been promoted by Dale Martin Promotions under the Joint Promotions banner. Joint Promotions was made up of six different promotions, some of which were owned by the group and some of which were affiliated -- http://prowrestling.wikia.com/wiki/Joint_Promotions. Joint owned Dale Martin and for all intents and purposes they were the same thing. In order to save confusion, I usually refer to WoS as Joint Promotions, but there are a lot of people (especially the wrestlers) who refer to it as Dale Martin. Perhaps John will chime in with how he thinks the matches should be labeled.

 

Joint didn't own Dale Martin as such.

 

Joint is a rough equivalent of the NWA - a public "governing body" and a private cartel. As an organization, it had the TV contract.

 

Dale Martin was the biggest individual member, covering the south of England (including London), so had the most prestigious venue (Royal Albert Hall) and put on the biggest proportion of the shows taped for TV. Aside from the absolute biggest stars who'd be booked nationally like an NWA champion or Andre, the biggest proportion of full-timers worked for Dale Martin and it had both a place for them to stay and provided transport to and from shows in buses. It's territory covered roughly half the population of England (40% of the UK population as a whole.)

 

The story goes that Jarvis Astaire (a multi sports/entertainment) promoter bought Dale Martin in the mid-70s. He then gradually took over the over promotions and sold it as a collective to bookmakers William Hill. They employed Max Crabtree (previously a local Northern promoter) to run the whole thing and start promoting under the Dale Martin banner nationwide. Crabtree later bought it out.

 

So by the time the Daddy push began, Dale Martin and Joint were largely interchangeable terms. Wrestlers who were active from that era tend to use the term "Dale Martin" (or even "Dale and Martin") because if they were working full time, that's likely who directly employed them.

 

Specifically on Davies-Veidor, it would be a Dale Martin show under the sanction/oversight of Joint Promotions, even though by that time Dale Martin was one of only a couple of Joint members and by far the most dominant. It's roughly equivalent to a Jim Crockett Promotions show under the NWA banner in 1988 when there were hardly any other members doing notable business.

[ohtani's jacket]

My understanding was that when the Hurst Park syndicate bought everyone out in the 60s that the syndicate essentially was Joint Promotions and that they owned Dale Martin and the other promotions. I thought Joint was only an NWA style body from 1952 to 1964.

[ohtani's jacket]

Breaks vs. Faulkner is one of the best wrestling matches I have seen hands down. Faulkner is not his usual self at all, coming in angry due to Breaks baiting him into a punch that the ref saw and DQed Faulkner (to take away the title on the line in this match no less) in their previous match. Either that didn't make tape or it's not on youtube. Whichever one it is, that is just plain criminal. Off the charts awesome by both and if you like any WoS at all I'd say it's a match to see for sure.

There were three Faulkner/Breaks matches which aired on television in 1977. Only one of those re-aired on The Wrestling Channel. The other two are in the ITV vaults somewhere.

[JNLister]

My understanding was that when the Hurst Park syndicate bought everyone out in the 60s that the syndicate essentially was Joint Promotions and that they owned Dale Martin and the other promotions. I thought Joint was only an NWA style body from 1952 to 1964.

 

Hurst Park (which was a group of racecourse owners) only bought out Dale Martin. Hurst then sold to Jarvis Astair in the 70s, and he then bought out most of the other promotions.