Big Sexy sounds off

[goodhelmet]

Actually, Chris Adam's wife and Mongo McMichaels' wife both wanted to fuck him.. and did... all the way to the bank.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Heh, okay fair enough. But some chicks go for any guys with money. In general though, I'm thinking most girls don't think that Austin is hot and want to fuck him. I sure as hell don't.

[Guest Some Guy]

I wouldn't really want to be Rey. He's successful and very good at his job, but I don't really want to be 5' 3", 180lbs and roided to the gills with severe knee problems.

 

Austin is a guy that everyone could relate to, both males and females want to fuck up their boss. And if Austin chose to he could have gotten more ass than a toliet seat if for no other reason than being famous.

 

I don't think that Orton is someone a guy wants to be, but he, out of most of the wrestlers is someone who more people would be capable of being. There are several tall, skinny, reasonably good looking guys who can wear nice clothes. I'm one of them.

 

I think of all the wrestlers that Rock is the one who virtually every guy would want to be. Who wouldn't want to the most charismatic guy in the world?

[Guest Flyboy]

Girls wanna f--- Rey, guys want to be Rey

I obviously can't speak from a male's perspective, but I'd rather pitch Rey's cheek and tell him he's cute than fuck him. He's a cute guy, but hardly a typical macho player that Nash is sort of portraying him to be.

 

Heh, it makes me feel weird that CC is discussing these kind of topics. But, carry on.

[Al]

I should run some wrestlers by Megan and get back to you guys.

[Strummer]

Going by Nash's theory,from the female fans I've talked to, Chris Jericho should be Hulk Hogan and Austin combined as a top guy. I don't think I've come across a female fan that didn't want to fuck Jericho and think he was super hot. Recently, Christian could fall into that category, but that's from only a select few girls, but he could be on his way up. Orton is not loved by all girls, some really think he's hot and some find him weird looking. RVD is another one on top of the list

[Guest CanadianChick]

Oh yeah, Jericho is hot. Even now, after he cut his hair, he's still hot. RVD has a nice ass, and that's never a bad thing.

[Al]

I do agree with the reasoning in theory. A look is very important for a top wrestler. I do wonder though. If I could convice Meg that Trish Stratus is doable, does she become World Championship material?

[Strummer]

if you look back to the 80s, at least in the WWF, their top wrestlers were not what you would call great looking. Vince has never pushed the pretty boys anyway, just the monsters, roid freaks and big fat guys, so I really don't believe Vince is truly behind that theory (he might be more now). Like I said just look at the 80s

[Guest Cam Chaos]

Orton is not loved by all girls, some really think he's hot and some find him weird looking. RVD is another one on top of the list

My girlfriend likes the look of Charlie Haas. She thinks Orton's eyes are too small and close together like he was inbred. Edge and HHH look too similar for her although she has got used to distinguishing them as HHH with the big nose and Edge with the monkey face and man jawed girlfriend.

 

She doesn't really much go for Mysterio as he's the man with the silly masks and Marilyn Manson contact lenses. HBK looks old and greasy like Steven Segal's little brother. I appreciate her candour. I think Nash is smoking too much pot.

[sek69]

My girlfriend has a poster of The Rock in her bedroom, so yeah.

 

She also used to be big on HBK back in the day. Not so much the current balding version though.

 

Edge used to be one of her favorites too, until he stopped washing his hair on a regular basis and started with the mop-head look.

 

She doesn't watch wrestling much anymore, but she caught RAW recently and thought Randy Orton looked like a dork, so she still has a good eye for talent.

[Coffey]

If she has a good eye for talent, why is she your girlfriend?

 

Ooh, ice burn.

[Loss]

May 28, 2005, 04:35 PM

 

 

Torch Talk with Kevin Nash, pt. 8

Originally Published: May 28, 2005

Torch Newsletter #863

 

In the following eighth installment of a six-hour "Torch Talk" conducted on March 24, Nash talks about the early stages of the NWO, Hulk Hogan joining the NWO, the NWO being revived in WWE, and Eric Bischoff's attitude during the rise and fall of WCW.

 

Wade Keller: If size is so important, then how do you explain Ric Flair and Shawn Michaels? They're a lot smaller than you, Hulk, Scott Hall. Do they hit a threshold for size that Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit don't?

 

Kevin Nash: Right, I just think their charisma made them bigger than life. The thing was with Shawn, Shawn was a buzzsaw. Shawn had real good intensity. When he was a heel he was able to kick it into gear. He made what Scott Hall and I liked to call Southern white meat babyface comeback. That Tommy Rich, punch, punch. That's the biggest problem babyfaces have in this business now. Most of the f---in' babyfaces can't throw a f---in' punch. You look at the old Southern babyfaces, the Ricky Mortons - those guys could sell their asses off and make you cry, and when it comes time for a comeback, they can throw it down. I watched Marty Jannetty the other night on Smackdown, and f---in' he was throwing a better punch than I've seen the last ten weeks on the show. He stood out because if you can work, you can work. I guarantee he was blown sky high and felt like a fish out of water when he went through the curtain in the back. I was so happy for him, man. I heard he got a contract, they signed him. F--- yeah. Way to go, Marty. That to me is the business right there. That's what it's about. If you know and can go, there's always a spot for you. Another thing you learn early in your career, if you ain't afraid to put somebody over, you'll always have a job. You'll always have a job. I'm 0-5 in TNA. I haven't won a PPV (match) since I came back. It don't matter none to me. My biggest problem is that there isn't any interjection between the young and old talent.

 

Keller: It hasn't been talked about a lot, but I've heard that Scott Hall and perhaps you were on the phone a lot with Eric Bischoff formulating the Outsiders invasion angle.

 

Nash: It was (Kevin) Sullivan, too. Sullivan doesn't get any credit for that angle, and it was hugely Sullivan. Sullivan was one of these guys who believed in heat, heat, heat, heat, heat. When we first came in and were getting heat on all of the babyfaces, especially (Lex) Luger and Sting, they were like, what the f---, we're getting beat down to the point that it's ridiculous. I remember Sullivan going, "Brother, it's like a hot air balloon, you can't stop the flame and shut it off eight feet off the ground. You gotta let heat build. He did. He let us get a good six months of heat. When Sting finally went into the rafters and started to attack us, f---, we made Dallas Page (a star) because he got to us. Anybody who got to us was instantly made.

 

Keller: And there were so few who did. That was one of the criticisms of the angle - whether it was the fault of the bookers or the talent depth, there weren't a lot of Sting and Dallas Pages on the depth chart on the other side.

 

Nash: No, there wasn't. To me, the greatest thing on earth was to come down and get heat on somebody and get that comeback going off the air every Monday night. That's all we did. You had four or five guys flat-backing twice a night, rolling to the floor, and saying "f--- you," and then giving a little something (off camera) for the house at the end of the show. You maybe took four bumps a night. It was the greatest gig in the world. There were a lot of guys, like Roddy (Piper), who was just limited physically. Not mentally or psychology-wise. Roddy was limited physically with his hip. We couldn't wiener dog him. We couldn't get to him and bump him hard like we did some of the other babyfaces in order to give them the comeback.

 

Keller: What were your early impressions of Eric Bischoff? All he did was hand you this big contract, but otherwise you didn't know him well.

 

Nash: I didn't know him, but I knew I had heat with him because he told me to stay (in WCW) when he was making his move to take over power right before I left. I remember him telling me, "Don't leave." I said I was gone. He took it as "f-- you," and he really didn't want to bring me in because of it. Dallas said, "You really need to bring him in." He was hot at me. When he brought me in, there was still resentment that I left. When Dallas told him what I made my last year in WCW, he got it. Bill Watts had gone down with a nightly deal with everyone and killed everybody's business. He was one of those boys who came into the office and (imitating Watts): "You know what, hell, I've been a wrestler, they'll work for nothing because they can't do nothing else. You can drop their pay scale." Thanks, Bill. There's one guy I'd shoot in the face with a gun if I could get away with it. But God bless him.

 

It took a while, but it was one of those deals where Eric likes to drink beer and I like to drink beer. We are in jets flying back and forth to towns and throwing ideas around and the next thing you knew, we became friends. It was a synergy and he liked ideas and Scott and I had a hundred of them a night. When we'd go in a room and there'd be a finish needed and guys would be looking at their boots, Scott would be, "How about this?" And I'd be, "How about this, or this, or this?" Sting would go, "If that works, how about it?" We'd get the process going on a nightly basis. We weren't afraid to open our mouths because we had been to the show. I know that guys in WCW didn't like to always hear, "In New York, we'd do things like this." They'd think, "If I hear the New York thing one more time, I'm going to strangle myself." But Bischoff told me later on he was more impressed with Hall and I because we left and got over and came back. He appreciated it more than guys who stayed in WCW and never went to the show. I think Bischoff appreciated that you were a Yankee (laughs). I think Bischoff appreciated that if you got over at the show (WWE), then you got over. There ain't many guys who have been to the show that have been over. There have been a lot of guys who have been over in a lot of territories, but there haven't been a lot of guys who have been over in New York.

 

Keller: He was impressed by you, but were you impressed by Bischoff and his vision and his motivation and his big ideas?

 

Nash: When he laid down the NWO angle the first time that we met in Phoenix, he came down to my house and we spent like a day and a half at my house. He spent the night. We went out and had beers and went to a strip joint and hung out and talked. He laid the angle out and I went, "Holy f---! That'll work!" When he laid it out, just the grassroots nuts and bolts of the angle, I was just, like, oh yeah.

 

Keller: Did it play out exactly as it was laid out, or were there significant changes?

 

Nash: It played out better. When Hulk came down and dropped the leg and they threw the sh-- into the ring, I was just, oh, better than expected. Wow! Ten fold. We got back way more than expected. It's so funny, I don't know if I live in Daytona Beach because of that or not. I mean, I live twelve miles from the Ocean Center. To me, I live in NWO Genesis Land.

 

Keller: How did the idea come about for Hogan to go heel and join the NWO?

 

Nash: It was actually my finish. I probably will never get credit for it, but I said to Eric, "Let me give you a finish." Because he wouldn't tell me who the third man was. I laid it out. He was silent. It was originally going to be Sting. I think what happened is Hogan watched the television show and saw the last train to Clarkston leaving at the station, and Hulk's the smartest guy in the business ever. And Hulk said, "No, that train ain't leaving without me. If I'm going to turn, this is what I'm going to turn on." The thing was, we gave it that urban grassroots heel feel, and Hulk gave us the validity. Hulk gave us instant credibility because Hogan turned heel with these two guys.

 

Keller: How long before that day did you know it was going to be Hulk?

 

Nash: The day of.

 

Keller: There were rumors that it might be him or might be someone else, but you didn't know until that day?

 

Nash: Not until that day.

 

Keller: Was there ever any negative thought that Hulk was moving in on something that was hot, and we'd rather keep it just with us?

 

Nash: God no! Not from me. From me, it was just like, f--- man - and Scott and I always called him the Godfather - to me, he's Brando. That's who he is. Hulk's the Godfather of Wrestling. When it comes down to it, people are always saying, "Hulk can't work, Hulk can't do this." I'm thinking to myself, Hulk at 49 and 50 stole two WrestleManias in a row. And he stole one with Vince, who can't work. For somebody who can't f---in' work to steal two WrestleManias, and one was with Rock who is probably of all the people I've ever touched in my life and grabbed and thrown off the ropes, when he said he was the most electrifying, there ain't no f---in' doubt about it. That's the best f---in' pure athlete to ever be in that ring.

 

Keller: And if he had stayed in wrestling, could he have been the biggest ever?

 

Nash: F---! We all hate him because he's so f---in' great. He was so great so early, everybody hates him. We sound like old school Charlies complaining that he's never paid his dues. At the same time, he's out in Hollywood now and I want him to be successful. He's such a break of the mold. He makes me able to get movie roles because people say, "What do you do?" I say, "I wrestle." They said, "Have you wrestled The Rock?" I say, "Yeah, I have." He's broke that mold where wrestlers are the sh--s. Thanks to Duane, we all have a second career.

 

Keller: What were your earliest impressions from being around Hulk Hogan for the first time in you career? Many wrestlers credit him for their having jobs, but others say Hulk looks out for himself only, so watch out. Did you immediately say, "I know Hulk's out for himself, I accept that"?

 

Nash: Yeah, I knew he was. But the thing was, at that point it was a situation where Hulk was out for himself. Okay, Hulk's got his deal and we've got our deal. People say guaranteed money killed the business, but at the same time, guaranteed money made that work because it didn't matter what the f--- Hulk did, we did, what anybody did, we were getting our cheese and he was getting his cheese. To me, I know that of all the pictures I've got, I've got a great picture of the three of us getting back at Joe Louis Arena with Hulk in the middle and Scott and I are on each side and the whole Joe Louis Arena is in the background standing up, and it's Austin and Rock on the floor laying and there's not a f---in' soul behind us in this Joe Louis Arena that's packed sitting on their ass. Let me get this right: We came in, we beat up their two biggest babyfaces, the crowd exploded in Detroit, did it again in Montreal, did it again in Chicago, and they beat us off at WrestleMania and made us work against each other. Gee, I wonder if there was any animosity that we f---in' got over as the NWO in the first place. To me, it was just like, I could just hear guys going, "Let me get this right. We're going to put these guys over after they almost put us out of business." So Vince goes (imitating Vince): "Well, God damn, we're not gonna do that!"

 

Keller: So you think Vince might actually have done something that wasn't best for the big picture out of resentment?

 

Nash: I absolutely think so. I absolutely think so. There is no f---ing way on earth that we didn't pop that territory when we came in there. I know for a fact that when they added us to the Buffalo house show, we sold 3,500 tickets more. We were putting asses in seats. When we talked out in the Bradley Center in Milwaukee for that first thing, when we came out, I felt like the Beatles in Shea Stadium. I mean, it was live, live. F---, I could have pissed electricity that night. It was one of those deals when Hulk went toe-to-toe in Rosemont with Rock and they thought for sure they'd say, "Rock, Rock," and that crowd went 100 percent "Hogan, Hogan," they knew they were so f---ed. And it became a situation like, f--- that, kill the cancer. You brought a cancer in, kill the cancer. I'm thinking to myself, "No, you own this!" Me and Scott were supposed to f--- Steve and then we were supposed to f--- Rock in the final. The day of, we do double-jobs and then we come down and get bounced out by Hogan - that's a day of show change. What the f--- does that tell you? Is that was panic booking or what?

 

Keller: Did you ever outright ask Vince?

 

Nash: You know, I said something to him drunk at the f---in' bachelor party (for Hunter and Stephanie). I said something like, "F---, man, I guess you got even for me leaving." He looked at me like, "Nah, dude." I was like, "Ah, it's all right."

 

Keller: So you walked away not getting confirmation either way.

 

Nash: You know, I don't need any confirmation either way. I know what the deal was.

 

Keller: Let's jump back again. Who originally came up with the name New World Order?

 

Nash: What the f--- was his name? Craig Leathers came up with it. Neal Pruitt was the voice. Actually, he also came up with the logo, Craig did.

 

Keller: There was a time when every third t-shirt on the street had that logo on it.

 

Nash: You know what, I just got done with a lawsuit against Turner because I never got paid a dime for any of those t-shirts. I waited until they closed the company, then went after them. I just settled with them finally, but it was just, "Uncle man, you guys paid me 1,500 dollars for t-shirts?" (laughs) I came down to Daytona Beach at that point before I lived here and there wasn't a t-shirt place on the market that didn't have eight of them in the front of their store. I mean, 3:16 was a hot-selling shirt, but f--- I'll put the NWO against it. I'll tell you what, when we came back to New York, the NWO sold again.

 

Keller: When the NWO first took off and Nitro began its winning streak, were you still keeping a close eye on the WWF and seeing what Shawn Michaels, Sean Waltman, and Hunter were up to? Did you talk to them regularly? Was there professional jealousy that separated you guys?

 

Nash: No, not really. They worked so much harder than we did. They were still working 25 dates a month. This whole thing when you're working New York, even to this day, I'll call Paul sometimes three times to his one. I don't get hot about it. I work three times a month. He works 15 to 18 times a month these days. You just know that it's going to take him a little longer to get back to you. That's the Clique rule. You never call out a friend for not returning a call because you know he will get back to you when he can get back to you. When we were red hot and running hard, sometimes we didn't return calls. Now that they're doing their thing and getting ready for WrestleMania, I don't expect many calls back. I've still critiqued the show and told Paul, "I don't like this and I don't like that." I'll still tell him things I don't like. I rarely watch anything besides his stuff unless I just happen to catch it flipping channels. That's how I caught Marty vs. Angle the other night. They showed the insert of Marty and Shawn working together. To me, I haven't talked to Shawn since, I don't know how much Shawn was a part of it, but what a nice rub back to a buddy. I mean, I tell you what, I've watched Shawn grow from the Shawn that I met to the Shawn that I know now. What an incredible human being he is now. He is just, he is as good as it gets. It's nice to see guys, especially your closest friends on earth, when I've got a couple of them falling off the face of the earth, it's nice to see some of them go the opposite way.

 

Keller: Did you ever feel bad for Vince when things were going so well for you in WCW?

 

Nash: Yes, I did. I remember one time it was really funny. We were in a leer jet. It was me, Hogan, Bischoff, Scott, and Macho. Bischoff said, "We're gonna put them mother f---ers out of business!" It was silence. Hulk was the first to speak up. He said, "You'll never put that mother f---er out of business." I threw in next, and then Randy threw in, and then Scott. We all said, "Dude, you don't know what you're f---in' doing. You basically started a nuclear reactor. All you've done is get a junkyard dog and put him in the corner. You have no idea what you've done."

 

Keller: What drove Eric Bischoff? Was there a single-mindedness of wanting to put Vince out of business for some irrational reason?

 

Nash: No, I don't think it was irrational. I think he had a vision and everybody laughed at him that he could compete. He said if he could buy Vince's talent, he could compete. That's what drives the business, it's talent.

 

Keller: When he had success and was riding high, was the only way for him to keep score at that point how poorly WWF did compared to him?

 

Nash: I know when the numbers came down and we were doing fives for three hours and they were doing twos, it was huge for him. You've heard all those stories about how they had him come in and interview and treated him like sh--. Whether they're true or not, I heard Jim Ross used to make him sit outside his office and type on the floor and sh-- like that. A lot of people f---ed with him. There's a karma in life. If you f--- with someone and if they don't violently come after you, a lot of times there is a certain degree of redemption. I think Eric got that redemption. He had such a f---in' high for two years, and the low was bad when that hit. It was almost like a coke buzz. You got your buzz, you feel like Superman, and all of a sudden, he thought, "Oh, f---, I've got to give more." There wasn't anything more to give. The high was so high and the low was so low, that he left there feeling defeated. I spent a lot of time with Eric and he's a good friend. I told him, "Dude, you did something nobody else will ever do."

[Loss]

Jun 11, 2005, 03:18 AM

 

 

Torch Talk with Kevin Nash, pt. 10

Originally Published: June 11, 2005

Torch Newsletter #865

 

In the following tenth installment of a six-hour "Torch Talk" conducted on March 24, Nash explains what he thinks went wrong with WCW during the Nitro downfall, his involvement in the end of the Bill Goldberg winning streak, what was supposed to happen and why it didn?t, his idea to work with Chris Jericho during his latest WWE stint, and the corporate higher-ups? attitude that ultimately cost the money-losing WCW any chance at being subsidized any longer by Time-Warner.

 

Wade Keller: One of the reasons often cited for why WCW went on the downslide was the lack of new stars coming up at a time when the WWF had many new stars coming up who were fresh in the eyes of the fans. How much of a concern was it to you when you were booker and when you were just watching and trying to nudge people certain ways, how much of your concern during that time period was that you needed to some new people over and rotate and get some fresh names going?

 

Kevin Nash: It?s really pertinent to get new people over, but at the same time I know that when I got over and Shawn (Michaels) got over, it was kind of one of those deals where in this business you have to get over on your own. I mean, to get over at the expense of everyone else to the point where you give the booking committee no choice but to push you. There weren?t guys doing that. There were guys sitting back waiting to be pushed. To me, when I broke in, you were given an opportunity and that?s the biggest problem I think they?ve got in New York right now. Guys are waiting to get pushed. "I think they should push me." F---, dude, don?t give them an option.

 

Keller: For instance, just to grab a name, Chris Jericho, he?s over to a degree. You can argue how much. How does he get a bigger push?

 

Nash: I think that Chris - and I?ll say it and please put it in print - his problem is, he?s too vocal to the creative aspect of the thing and they f--- him because he?s like that. He?s too critical of the booking and he f---in ? pays the price.

 

Keller: In WWE or WCW or both?

 

Nash: Both. Chris is not afraid to say, "Your f---in? ideas suck.

 

Keller: And he?s not diplomatic about it.

 

Nash: It gets to the point where after so many years in the business, you feel you?ve earned the right to say "that blows." In the wrestling business, they go, okay, well maybe it does, and then the next thing you know you get beat. I think Chris is probably the most over guy in the business who lately hasn?t gotten a push. I mean, they don?t push him at all. I think Chris is a great worker. I really like - I enjoy him. I was hoping - my whole deal was on my last run I wanted to be Diesel with Chris. That?s what I wanted. I figured we could do that forever. I could get a three year run.

 

Keller: You would say that in WCW when there were these same guys on top and the ratings were going down and wheels are coming off the wagon, it was the fault of the mid-card wrestlers for not stepping up; it wasn?t the fault of the bookers for not making it happen?

 

Nash: It wasn?t anybody?s fault. What basically happened was, it?s like when you have a party at your house and some guys from outside of your group get into a fight and break your picture window. It was nobody?s fault that the sh-- went wrong. It was just so out of control and running so crazy that it?s like anything, it?s like driving 200 miles an hour after 20 beers. Eventually you?re going to smash into something. That?s what we were.

 

Keller: It was a success story built to crash.

 

Nash: Yeah, it was a free-fall. A complete free-fall. I mean, that?s what it was.

 

Keller: Do you believe there was a certain inevitability to it at one point when the ratings began going down.

 

Nash: In retrospect, yeah. There was no incentive due to the guaranteed contracts. That?s where people say that the guaranteed money killed the business because there was no incentive for people to get over. I mean, like, everybody worked their ass off for three months until you got that four-year deal. Then you got that and it was like you back the Brinks truck up and pack the money in it and went, "Okay, now I just gotta do my time."

 

Keller: I don?t think Sting or Stevie Ray or Rick Steiner were staying up late at night trying to figure out how to earn their guaranteed paychecks. Rick?s a friend of yours, but I don?t think he was sitting there thinking to himself, "Man, I want to make this company a success." He had his seven figure deal from his hunting buddy and he was going to do what he felt like doing.

 

Nash: Absolutely.

 

Keller: He would probably smile, admit that?s true, say, "I got my money and I did what I did." But that is where guaranteed contracts did contribute. To say it had nothing to do with it, I think, ignores human nature.

 

Nash: Oh, Absolutely. I talk to guys who were in the business at that point. I ask them what they were making. They tell me, and I say, "Get the f--- out!"

 

Keller: Yet, it became so miserable for some guys that they left for less guaranteed money - Jericho being one of them. You want to have fun doing what you do. It?s not all about the money for everyone.

 

Nash: There?s a point to that, but there?s also the mark factor. To me, tomorrow if somebody told me I could become the WWF Champion for 20 million dollars or work at Burger King for 21 million, I?ll work at Burger King for 21. I do it for money. When I leave my house, when I leave my family, when I have to alter my lifestyle, I do it as a business. I?ve never lost that (perspective). This is a business.

 

Keller: You did leave WCW with a 100,000 dollar-plus guarantee and rolled the dice you?d make more in the WWF. Was that not a "mark move" on your part?

 

Nash: To me, it was one of those deals where if you?re playing for the Tigers right now and you?re making 200,000 a year and they said to you, "There?s a real good chance you can play for the Yankees. Wanna come aboard?" Would you stay with the f---in? Tigers or go to the Yankees? At that point I had already talked to the people at the strip joint before I went to New York. He said, "Anytime you want to come back, you got five shifts." To me, it was like a gamble, but I was taking a gamble on the pretense of knowing that if it didn?t work in New York (with the WWF), I was going to go back to the strip joint business and make my 100 grand.

 

Keller: You had a net.

 

Nash: I was thinking to myself in WCW that maybe I?m not going to do this any longer. I was pretty much ready to quit. Dallas (Page) was the only reason I didn?t quit the wrestling business. Dallas has that positive f---in? guru crazy "stay positive" message, Positively Page. F--- you, dude. I can make more working a strip joint, smoke a fatty before the shift starts, and f---in? be on cruise control, go to the gym every day, and be home with my wife. F---.

 

Keller: Do you remember the first Nitro after the streak had ended? Was it like a funeral, or was it such a mess anyway?

 

Nash: I don?t think I remember. I think I remember it more because, like, all of a sudden people who had ideas suddenly became really important. People to this day will say I took over the book and beat Goldberg. To this day, people say that. I started booking at the end of February. I beat Goldberg on December 27th. I had absolutely no creative f---in? voice when Goldberg was beat. I took over TV at the Wichita, Kansas Thunder, wherever that was. [Editor?s Note: This is clarified later in the interview.] I think it was February, or maybe even March. Goldberg put it in his book and people think it?s the gospel. It?s one of those deals. Was I one of those people who sat in the f---in? room and said, "Hey, the guy?s gotta get beat." Absolutely. Was I the guy who put the angle together for me dropping the belt to Hogan and we put the heel factory in front of Goldberg? Was I the guy who told Goldberg to then get so f---in? pissed off at Scott Hall that he put his hand through a f---in? limo and he was out for nine months. No. Sorry, when I booked it, I didn?t put the mark factor into it. My bad. Now we?re f---ed. All of a sudden, out of nowhere, I?m a mother f---in? piece of sh-- for beatin? Bill. I?ve watched the match back several times and it?s 50-50, if not 60-40 me at MCI Arena that night when we went to Starrcade. They wanted him to get beat until he got beat, and when he got beat, they went, "Oh, f---. Wait, we don?t want him to get beat.

 

Keller: I?m looking at a Torch Newsletter detailing the February 1 Nitro and one of the headlines was "WCW booker Kevin Nash made a speech to wrestlers before Nitro to establish stricter set of rules. He told the wrestlers they need to get to the arena when asked to. They plan to do more producing."

 

Nash: That must have been it. That must have been the day I took over. There was probably so much heat when Bill got beat in December that he probably went f--- this.

 

Keller: Let me get this clear. You were or were not in favor of how your match went with Goldberg?

 

Nash: I was completely in favor of it. The fans were chanting "Goldberg sucks" at the arenas. I said, "The thing is, he?s become the Yankees. He wins, wins, wins. Once we beat him, they?re going to go, ?Oh, f---, we don?t want him to lose.? Which they did." You can watch that match and watch the heat. The people pop like f---, and then there?s a 15 second pause and they went, like, "F---, we didn?t want him to get beat." It worked. Everything we had planned out would have worked if he would have gone through everybody to get to (Hulk) Hogan for nine months. It was the old Hogan heel factory. I mean, it would have worked. It would have given us another f---in? nine month run with what we had. He was the guy to do it.

 

Keller: What went wrong with Goldberg?

 

Nash: What went wrong is he went to Salisbury, Maryland. At that time the NWO was the black and silver. It was me, Scott (Hall), Bret (Hart), and (Jeff) Jarrett at the show. It was the first time WCW had been in that town. That?s a staunch New York (WWE) town. So, they came out and told Scott, "Whatever you do, don?t cut a promo on Goldberg." Which means Scott will cut a promo live. We were drinking beer all day. Scott goes out and says, "How many people came here to see Goldberg?" They went boo! He said, "How many people came to see the NWO?" They went, "Yeah! Goldberg sucks! Goldberg sucks! Goldberg comes out. He?s f---in? livid. That was the night he threw his f---in? arm through the limo. He was so pissed. (Kevin) Sullivan churned up Goldberg, telling him, "Brotha, Nash and Hall are burying ya? and you don?t even know what?s happenin?." They told Scott not to do the promo and he did it anyway. Goldberg looked at that as, "F---, these guys are going to kill me off."

 

Keller: Do you think Goldberg was a big baby about it?

 

Nash: No, I?m sure he was trying to piss on his turf like everybody else was. I?m sure in retrospect - I mean, I look at it and say Bill had every reason to be hot because he sat in the room and he was there when they told Scott not to do it. Scott did it.

 

Keller: Goldberg did make himself a target to pick on because it?s so easy to push his buttons because you knew you?d get a reaction out of him.

 

Nash: That?s the whole thing. He was never in a car with a Rick Rude and sitting there having a cold one and Rick Rude looking over and telling him, "Brother, don?t f---in? sell the bullsh--." Or Jake, "Brother, don?t let them see you sweat, brother." Or even Hogan. He was never under that learning tree. He came in as a nobody and they went, "Okay, you?re going to go 190 and 0."

 

Keller: And he looked enough like the hottest act in wrestling at the time, Steve Austin.

 

Nash: Because Austin was f---in? through the roof, they saw him as a bigger, badder version of Steve. But he didn?t have Steve?s charisma and couldn?t cut a promo.

 

Keller: That was another cause of the WCW downfall. They banked so much on Goldberg, but when the winning streak got a little repetitive, and it was time to move from second base to third base, and Goldberg couldn?t pull it off because he couldn?t have longer matches and he couldn?t talk, they didn?t know where to go with him.

 

Nash: That was the whole thing. I watched where Dallas - I think he worked with Dallas before he worked with me in Vegas - and they went 12 minutes and it was a stretch. He was working with Giant on the road and Giant was smoking cigarettes and blowing smoke in his face and ducking a clothesline and tackling him and pinning him. That was their main event, 30 seconds. Fans were leaving going, "What the f---." When I was main event, you went 20-25. That?s what you did.

 

Keller: Can you list one major reason, or three or four major reasons, that contributed 70, 80, 90 percent to why WCW went down? Is there a short list? Or is it two-dozen equally valid reasons?

 

Nash: There?s soooo many things. Like I said when we started this conversation. You?re talking about a multimedia conglomerate, the biggest in the world, going from 78 dollars to 13 or 14 dollars a share. The economics of that alone - think of Brad Siegel. Here?s a guy, I forget what movie it was, one of those Cable Ace (Award) movies, a Schindler?s List type of thing. Not that, but a high-brow Cable Ace movie. They spent 55 million dollars to make the movie. I asked what they expected to make on it. He said, "Well, hopefully we?ll do a 2.5." I said, "How many times will you play the movie?" He said, "Once a quarter." I?m thinking, they just spent 50 million dollars to basically do a 2.5 once a quarter, and you?re wanting to cut us out of your programming which is doing a 3.2 for three hours of original programming. I wanted to ask if they were in the television business or just looking to get blown at the Cable Aces.

 

When you?ve got guys like that running the helm - people want to point the finger at (Eric) Bischoff. Point the finger at Brad Siegel. What a moron that guy is. I?m sure he?s no longer with the company. Everybody who was a higher-up, they?re all gone. They?re all fired. I mean, the jackoff meter above WCW was beyond imagination. It was a bunch of Napoleonic little pieces of sh--. They hated us because of what we were.

[Loss]

Torch Talk Library

Kevin Nash talks about being WCW booker, how he got the job, Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan politics (06-25-05)

 

Jun 25, 2005, 04:54 PM

 

 

Torch Talk with Kevin Nash, pt. 11

Originally Published: June 25, 2005

Torch Newsletter #867

 

In the following eleventh installment of a six-hour "Torch Talk" conducted on March 24, Kevin Nash talks about the challenges of being WCW booker, he reveals his reason for missing his scheduled job against the Giant, he talks about how WCW dropped the ball with Bret Hart, and he explains Hulk Hogan's role in hurting and helping WCW.

 

Wade Keller: When you were booker of WCW, did you ever feel that you had a chance and enough control to implement your ideas?

 

Kevin Nash: Absolutely not.

 

Keller: You did implement more pre-produced segments and fewer meaningless matches. That was one of your staples early on.

 

Nash: I tried. The only show I had complete control of was the show we did from Indianapolis that was a Thunder. That was the one where the guys in the Black & White were talking sh--. We set the camera up in the limo and me, (Hulk) Hogan, and Scott (Hall) watched them. That was the first show I booked, the Thunder in Indianapolis. Look that up. Maybe I was booker when I beat Goldberg. Maybe I'm in denial. (laughs) I think I booked (Chris) Jericho against (Chris) Benoit in a match. I mean, I put all the guys who could work - I picked my guys. Whoever was on that show that night, that was basically the guys I knew. Because Stevie Ray could f---in' act. Stevie was the leader of the Black & White. They had already screwed it up so much, I was trying to get some mileage out of those guys. That was my first show that I had control of - that Thunder in Indianapolis.

 

Keller: Why did you want that job? Did you think you could make a positive difference at that point?

 

Nash: It was one of those deals where every time Eric (Bischoff) had an idea, I was one of those guys who said, "F--- that, it's not gonna work." He looked at me and said, "Okay, do you think you could do any better?" I went, "Yeah. Yeah, I do." He went, "F---, it's yours." I said, "I ain't taken it on for free." He said, "I'll give you a raise." The next thing you know, he took me off TV. I was making almost two million bucks to book the show. At the same time, I had a lot people I felt were my friends turn on me (when I became booker). Booking is not a favorable place to be.

 

Keller: Because everyone believes if you were friends with them, life will be great as soon as you get power?

 

Nash: And the thing is, like anything else, there's a lot of guys that were my friends who I put in position and I gave them the ball and they f---in' went, "Well, I'll give you 30 percent" and I was asking them for 110. I looked at them and said, "I did you solid and you f---n' sh-- in my lap. I expect more out of you as my friend, not less."

 

Keller: Did you gain sympathy for previous booking regimes that you were critical of once you sat in that chair yourself?

 

Nash: I learned to respect it because, you know what, I mean - and I'll always say this about the dirt sheets. They're the best Tuesday quarterback in the world. Everybody can watch a show, digest it, and f---in' think about what could have made it better over a 24 hour period. But when you're going on live on a Monday night and you've got all the intangibles laid out in front of you, especially when you've got someone coming in going, "Brother, that doesn't work for me." You go, "F---! Not only do I have to re-book the show, I have to re-time this motherf---er because, guess what, we got commercial sponsors. It's 7:15 and we go on at 8:00. I have to re-write something that passes him to get through a segment four, six, and nine because we're on for three hours and he's all over the show. He won't return a call. It was not an easy process. It wasn't like I was the director of a movie and I could fire ya'.

 

Keller: That was another problem with guaranteed contracts - the bulletproof vests that so many guys had.

 

Nash: I learned a lot. I think if I ever booked again, I would be a much better booker just because my skin's a lot thicker now. The whole thing is every booker has vision, and if that vision doesn't work - it's like you wake up and say, "I want to take a boat to Tahiti." If the guy's running the boat don't want to go to Tahiti, you ain't going to Tahiti. So you pretty much have to sit down and kinda talk it out. I don't think TNA is really happy with the way things are going right now. There's a lot of unhappiness right now. Dusty (Rhodes) - I have no idea how long he's been in charge, but if it's been three weeks, it's been about five too many. I think the product - this is me talking - I think the product has dropped. I don't think it's what it was. You can't have the X match every f---in' month. You can't do it. You can't change the belts on those guys in the X class every month. I mean every match is a gimmick match. The next month we have two cage matches.

 

Keller: That's another product of not having a two year guarantee as booker, and so he has to produce results right now to gain the confidence of his bosses. So he does everything he can to not get fired after four weeks.

 

Nash: I wrote an article he wrote in a Japanese magazine that they had a feature article on me in. He says that he can compete with Vince mentally, but he can't financially. He said where Vince was missing the boat was the rural market. You ain't Vince. He sat there and had the first meeting with us and told us that we need to get our sh-- together because the office was right. I went, "Oh, man, you've got eight people in the f---in' office that you can't a return call from in eight weeks and you're saying the office is right and the boys need to get their sh-- right?" Who's d--- are you sucking? He lost all credibility with us immediately.

 

Keller: That's a good lead-in for my next question. There was some snickering because you said in your first speech as WCW booker at the time that you'd have zero tolerance for trying to get out of doing jobs or whining about doing jobs. But then the incident cited by your critics was your scheduled job to Giant in 1997 and you said you had a heart attack and couldn't make it. Fair criticism or not? Was there a serious health problem that people are downplaying because they don't know the circumstances?

 

Nash: Sure. They don't know the circumstances. What happened was a buddy of mine came over and I had my in-laws in town. And he brought a f---in' pan of marijuana brownies. I said, "F--- it, I wanna get high, but my in-laws are in town and I can't smoke. Could you bring over some brownies? He put an ounce of the most kronic kronic in the world in these f---in' brownies. It's probably a six-by-six inch pan of brownies. He brings it over to my house, gives it to me. I don't think anything of it, so I cut in fours and put it in my closet. Merrry Christmas to me. So I eat one brownie. Nothin'. I eat another brownie. Nothin'. I eat the third brownie. Nothin'. I eat the fourth brownie. Nothin'. I'm drinkin' wine, I'm drinkin' beer, having a couple of muscle relaxers. The next thing you know I'm sitting on the couch and I'm getting a body buzz. F---, it's super potent sh--, so I was having a f---in' heart attack. I had a giant ranch - probably a six thousand square foot ranch in Arizona at the time. I took a walk back to the back. I was sweatin' f--in' bullets. It was cold as f---, like 42 degrees in the desert. Christmas day. I walk back and check on my little boy who wasn't two yet. I walked outside and I had probably a 2,000 square foot balcony on the back of the house overlooking the pool. I'm sitting there, sweating bullets. I said, "I gotta check my pulse." My pulse was like 120. I said, "Oh, f---, I'm having a heart attack." I called the paramedics. They came and my blood pressure was through the roof. I was having an incredible anxiety attack because of the body buzz from the pot. So I had trained legs and back that morning. I had a key to the gym and I went in and trained a double body barb because I was gonna take a couple of days off after the holidays. So I trained legs really heavy and back really heavy. So when I went in, the Indian doctor took a test. I guess they do a muscle breakdown test. It gave him a positive because of all the lactic acid and sh-- I had in my body and the amount of work I did that day. So he thought it was heart tissue, so he said I had had a heart attack. So they diagnosed me as having this minor heart attack. They put me in North Scotsdale Hospital. I was on the heart monitor. F---in', it wasn't until Monday when they did a nuclear dye CAT scan on me that I knew I didn't actually have a heart attack. My dad died at 36 years old of a heart attack. It ain't like I was f---in' working anybody. My dad dropped dead at 36. I was 38 and outlived my dad by two years. F---, like I give a f--- about putting The Giant over. Eric called me and said he'd send me a leer jet. I said, "Dude, you can terminate my contract. I don't give a f---. They're telling me the bottom of my heart stopped beating. I said, "I'm not moving nowhere." They're calling me at the North Scotdale Hospital. What a work that is, right? I'm gonna sit in the hospital for three days just to not have to do a job? Let me put my wife's son and her in-laws through it while we're at it because I'm that masterful of a worker. An ounce of kronic in your belly in about an hour and a half period with just some turkey with no carbs, and then drop about three bottles of wine, a half a bottle of Makers Mark, 12 beers, and a couple of somas and tell me you're not ending up in the E.R. somewhere.

 

Keller: They always say nobody has ever died of a pot overdose. You were almost the exception.

 

Nash: I almost scared myself to death. Let's put it that way.

 

Keller: I think one of the biggest missed opportunities in WCW the last few years was Bret Hart. He came in right after the Survivor Series incident. Hulk Hogan, always a self-preservationist, noticed that February, two months after Bret jumped, he headlined a pay-per-view with (Ric) Flair and it drew the same buyrate with Hogan not on the card that Hogan had been drawing. After that, it seemed that everything that could be done to sabotage Bret happened. I brought that up to Hogan when he did a "Torch Talk" and he said he didn't recall paying attention to buyrates at the time. Do you think Hogan saw that and said, "Wow, Bret's a threat"?

 

Nash: I know for a fact, because I remember one time telling him when I first started booking, I said, "Terry (Hulk Hogan), I'd like to make you the commissioner." He said, "Brother, that doesn't work for me because I get paid on buyrates." He was well aware of buyrates. Buyrates equated to money in his f---in' pockets. There is no way he didn't know about buyrates. I know when he was at the King of the Ring, he wouldn't put Bret over. I was there, man. I was there that night in Ohio. He wouldn't put Bret over. He would put Yoko over, who put Bret over, to get Bret the belt. Bret was our guy, he dressed in our locker room. He said, "That mother f---er won't put me over." I remember that whole thing going down. He was complaining that Hulk wouldn't pass the torch to the young guys. I'm sure that wasn't going to change when Bret (arrived in WCW). I'm sure there was animosity there.

 

Keller: Why was Hogan so dead-set against putting over Bret even at that point? Was Hogan particularly threatened by Bret, or was it a size issue?

 

Nash: Terry never said this, but I don't think he felt that Bret was in his category, that he was in his league. I don't think he felt Bret was worthy of him dropping the strap to him. I never beat him! There ain't many mother f---ers who beat Hulk. The only reason Goldberg beat the mother f---er is because he got such a big peice of the house and everything else at that Nitro. That was a four, five hundred thousand dollar job for him.

 

Keller: Going back to the original question, do you agree that Bret was a lost opportunity?

 

Nash: He could have been a new fresh face with all of those fresh match-ups. Bret was the kind of guy who could have a great match with everybody. At that point, Bret could have worked babyface/heel. He could have worked against everybody. He could have worked against (Lex) Luger, Sting, me, Scott (Hall), Goldberg, Hogan. There were probably eight or nine really good runs he had that were probably two month runs at least. Bret was a year of booking. They paid him a sh--load of money and they didn't use him.

 

Keller: People talk about the top five things that if they were different would have changed things drastically as WCW began the downslide...

 

Nash: That's definitely one! Because, I'm a huge Bret Hart fan. In my life, if I had to pick the top five guys I ever worked against, he's definitely in my top five.

 

Keller: Do you think Bret wasn't pushed out of incompetence and negligence or out of spite?

 

Nash: Probably a combination.

 

Keller: If Hogan was part of that, and now there's no competition to WWE because WCW is out of business and that's one of the reasons why, for all the talk of all the good Hogan has done for the industry, there's one example where there were pretty big negative ramifications from his self-preservation at all costs approach.

 

Nash: You know what, to me, it's one of those deals it's kind of like Terry know what's good for Terry and I mean, I watched what he did at the last WrestleMania I was at. So Terry knows what's good for Terry and I kinda got to go with it (laughs). You know what I mean? F---, you know?

 

Keller: Isn't there a point where you go, gee, give back.

 

Nash: I think Terry is taking care of Terry, and I think Terry is in a position in his life where he is because he did. It's a nobody loves anybody cut-throat business. If anybody wanted to assassinate anybody, including me and Scott, it was Terry. He'd always rise above everybody. So I mean, did it cost us, yeah, but would Bret have come in if Terry didn't turn? Would we have had the genesis we had? Probably not. Terry's ability to see a good thing and turn made it a viable product. I guarantee Bret never made more money than he did sitting on his ass during those couple of years.

 

Keller: So you're saying you build up enough equity through doing good for yourself that also helps the industry that you get a free pass almost destroy a company as long as you get yours in the end? Come on...

 

Nash: I mean, if I'm Terry - the thing is, there was a point where I despised him. There was a point where I loved him because I came to be his friend. I came to understand him and actually sit down and have conversations with him that weren't based on bullsh-- but instead was based on two guys having a beer talking about sh-- that went down. When we went into New York, he knew he needed his back covered because everyone was going to kill him. He had to trust Scott and I, so we became friends because it was like three pirates. I understood for the first time because I came in under the same animosity basically that he had been under his whole f---in' career that I understood the psychology of why he does what he does.

[Loss]

I love how everyone -- Nash, Hogan, Bischoff, whoever -- lies blame on some invisible higher-up that squashed all of the good booking ideas. They always go to bat to protect each other when talking about the demise of the company, but they continually place blame on some nameless group of TBS execs who were determined to see them fail.

[goodhelmet]

Pinned because this topic is much bigger than the Mid South discussion!

[sek69]

An ounce of kronic in your belly in about an hour and a half period with just some turkey with no carbs, and then drop about three bottles of wine, a half a bottle of Makers Mark, 12 beers, and a couple of somas and tell me you're not ending up in the E.R. somewhere.

 

 

OK, Nash is a big guy and all, but that's enough to drop a fucking horse. He talks as if that was a usual evening for him... fuck the ER, how did he not die?

[Guest Cam Chaos]

That much alcohol with somas, no matter how many, will either kill you or at least lead to your stomach getting pumped. Spicolli died from alcohol/soma poisoning. I've done a half ounce, shots of Southern Comfort and 8 beers and I felt like I'd been ran over the next day, God knows how anyone could take all that and not suffer liver failure.

 

She doesn't watch wrestling much anymore, but she caught RAW recently and thought Randy Orton looked like a dork, so she still has a good eye for talent.

 

My girl thinks his eyes are too small and close together like he was the result of inbreeding.

[Guest MJHimJfadeaway23]

Wade Keller: Okay, so Hulk Hogan does what he does out of self-preservation, but what if it hurts the wrestling industry in the process? When you talk about his approach, these two words come to mind: Selfishness and gluttony. There is a point where you have to ask how many millions of dollars and how much fame do you need where you just want more even if everybody can see it's not for the good of the industry that made you so rich and famous. Why is Hogan's desire for more at the expense of the good of the industry's future not gluttony and selfishness?

 

Kevin Nash: I don't think he can see it.

 

Keller: So you're saying he doesn't intentionally hurt the industry?

 

Nash: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. He doesn't do anything with malice. If he does something that is detrimental to the business... he didn't have a master plan to go out and steal two f---in' WrestleManias. He had no plan to hurt the business. It's just that when he has in his contract, when Henry Holmes puts down creative control, then Terry (Bollea, a/k/a Hulk Hogan) has creative control. Then it becomes, "Brother, if it doesn't work for me, then f---in' brother it didn't work for me." That's not Terry's fault. That's the mother f---ers who booked the contract with him. That's what I've always said. Hey, it ain't my fault I can't book TV. The guys who put creative control in his contract caused it.

 

Keller: But you had a falling out with Hogan. What was that about? Wasn't it frustration with him abusing the power he had?

 

Nash: Absolutely. But at the same time, I've got to look at it like a man and say to myself, "Is my frustration the fact that I can't control Hogan or is my frustration in the fact that I don't have the control that Hogan has? You know what I mean? What's the actual frustration as a man? I'm a realist. My realization is I'm f---in' envious of the fact that he has those mother f---ers over a barrel. That's my envy. My envy isn't the fact that I can't control him. My envy is the fact that he has a better deal than I've got.

 

Keller: But wouldn't you want to look at him and be not just envious, but also admire that when he had the power, he didn't abuse it, that he took a step back and said, "Wait a second, I have all of this power. Let me make sure, because I'm already rich beyond my wildest dreams, that if there's two roads to take and they each benefit me greatly, I take the road that benefits the industry and not the easiest road to take"? I would argue he didn't do that often enough.

 

Nash: Yeah, but at the same time, he looks at putting Rock over at that WrestleMania as a cleansing. To me, I don't think Terry ever had a problem passing the torch. He would have passed the torch to Sid, I think, at that one point, but Sid said, "No, what you need is a big vicious heel." Sid didn't want Hogan's boots. That's the story I've heard. Of course, that's locker room f---in' legend. At the same time, Hulk will put over who Hulk feels is worthy of being put over. Dwayne was a guy that he looked at and felt it wouldn't hurt him because he's the sh--. If I look at the business and I look at before I got into the business, I don't think the business would be in as good a shape if there wasn't a Terry Bollea. If there wasn't Terry, I wouldn't be sitting where I am right now.

 

Keller: I just say at what point does that...

 

Nash: There are so many guys, and I've known a couple of guys who have had incredible success and incredible monetary success and those guys tend to be more selfish than anybody else in the business. It takes so much to get that f---in' spot and that f---in' cut of merchandise and that kind of stroke. It takes so much to go up that ladder that when it comes time and somebody says, "You need to give something back," you can't help but think, "F--- you!" In a business where you're not hitting a curve ball and not hitting a 30 foot jump shot, when everything's a work and you've got that power, as much as I'd like to say, "You did this and you did that," I've been in that situation before... The thing is, I don't begrudge anybody their deal. If your deal is you can tell everybody you can f--- off and you don't ever have to come to work and you make the most money, you're a better businessman than I am. I mean, that's kind of the way Scott (Hall) and I looked at things. We were "don't hate the players" long before anybody was hatin' players. We had a great contract. We had favored nations (guaranteed highest paid contract in WCW) and they wanted to bring Bret in. And Bret wanted 2.5 million and that was more than us. Eric (Bischoff) came to us and said, "You guys have a favored nation in your clause, but we can't pay you guys that same money. Will you guys take a bump up, but less?" We went, "Sure." We could have f---in' went, "No, f--- that, we got favored nation. F--- Bret Hart." I looked at it that he was a buddy of mine and f---, how much was he going to make? Two-point-five? I know he hasn't made anything near that the last 20 years dragging his boots from Calgary. Let a brother make his money. I'm the first to say go ahead, you know?

 

Keller: Do you think Bret Hart would have brought the WWF Title belt onto Nitro if he had the opportunity before dropping the belt, which is something Vince McMahon apparently feared happening?

 

Nash: No. No way. You know what, man, I spent a lot of time with Bret. It was one of those deals where if Bret didn't feel any love anymore for that company, Bret would just have walked away with his shoulders down, with that Oggy Doggy look that said if you don't want me, I'll go somewhere else." I don't think Bret is in any way malicious.

 

Keller: Do you think Vince thought Bischoff could have talked Bret into it and Bret would have gone along with it for two and a half million?

 

Nash: Nah, he wouldn't have done it. Bret might have been angry, but Bret had the relationship with Vince and with WWF way better than I did, and I would never have done anything to hurt the franchise.

 

Keller: Why do you think that was one of the main reasons used to justify the Survivor Series Swerve rather than Vince agreeing to just have Bret drop the title under different circumstances later on?

 

Nash: I think they got scared. I think after Bret said, "No, I'm not going to drop it here, I don't want to drop it in Canada," they f---ed him.

 

Keller: Did Bret Hart take his hero status too seriously?

 

Nash: The thing about Bret, man, was when the business was the drizzlin' sh--s, and Bret had the belt, we'd draw in Canada. He was a god up there. No doubt about it. When you look at things, people say, "He's a mark." No, Bret was super-over, he was a great champion. If everybody in this business - it's the egos that make things so crazy, you know? Bret had a giant ego, but Bret was great. I mean, he had a reason to have an ego. He brought it to the table. He could talk. He could work. He could do it all.

 

Keller: Were you hoping Eric Bischoff would end up buying WCW?

 

Nash: F--- yeah. They were going to do the show out of Las Vegas. They were going to put the WCW logo on top of the theater. They were going to let New York have New York and we were going to take Vegas. We were going to become the party show. When I heard all that, I thought, Oh man, because Eric has that vision. He has that vision because he's got kids. When he laid it out to me, of course, the ATM machine was going to be open for a couple more years.

 

Keller: When it sounded like the WWF might actually buy WCW, what was your thinking at that point? Positive? Negative? Or not sure of what to make of it?

 

Nash: When I heard they were going to buy it - in retrospect, now I hear what the deal was. It was basically that they gave it to him. If you want to see what kind of business people that company was at that time, they basically had a better deal with another company and sold a piece of their company away. You know, it's like anything else, that dot-com thing went crazy and Time-Warner is a great company. I have nothing bad to say about it. They've got their people back. They took the dot-com guys and told them to go home, let us run our company, and they've become profitable again.

 

Keller: Time-Warner gave away WCW because they wanted to get $50 million of losses off of their books. In a sense, they got $50 million for it because they took that off their books. They also basically said they didn't want it anymore, so take it and the contracts with it. Vince didn't want a handful of the bigger contracts.

 

Nash: Yeah, and it was a beautiful eleven months for me because I think I was at $2.6 million that year or something crazy like that. I sat home for eleven months and they were telling me I could take fifty cents on the dollar. I was, like, what? Are you not following the stock market. I just lost high six figures in the dot-com collapse. You think I'm giving money back? (laughs) Some of the wrestling community was hot. F--- you, this is a business. I'm 40 years old. You never give money back.

 

Keller: That answers my next question. How badly did you want to get back into the mix?

 

Nash: You never give money back at that age. Especially not at 40. Look at what happened when I came back. I blew out a bicep and I blew out a quad.

 

Keller: Do you feel badly about that?

 

Nash: I feel like I f---ed them. I feel like I got a huge contract. I was the highest paid guy they probably have had over those two years because I worked about three months for what I got paid. People say, "He got hurt all the time." It's just like, hey, how about me? Vince knows after sitting there with two blown quads trying to get them back. He knows what I went through to get to that Hell in a Cell.

 

Keller: Describe what it was like for you going through the same recovery that Vince McMahon is going through?

 

Nash: I talked to him on Valentine's Day. I talked to Vince. I called him because I knew where he was in his rehab. I mean, as a man, especially for someone as strong as he is, it's like being castrated. You're in a wheelchair. You're an invalid.

 

Keller: And you had single, not double.

 

Nash: Yeah, and I was 43, not 58 or 60, whatever he is. I called him up and I told him, "If there's anyone who can come through two of them, it's you, you f---in' ornery prick." If there's anyone on this planet who can, it's him. He will. He's already on crutches.

 

Keller: Were you worried he would be set back by going too quickly through rehab?

 

Nash: I was supposed to be in a wheelchair and I went to Summerslam. It was at Nassau Coliseum and I made sure I walked into that building on my own with no crutches. I Vic'd (Vicodin) up to do it, but I did it. There was no way I was going to let anyone see me on crutches. I was not going to. That's just business. It's the no-sell. I'll walk in and this thing will blow up all night, and then I'll go home and get it drained. But I will not come in on crutches and look weak.

 

Keller: Do you think Vince takes the "don't show weakness" mantra too far, or do you think it's one of the traits that has made him successful?

 

Nash: I tell you what, when I was with him, and this was back in the day when he had your folder. If you were the champion, he was in charge and had your folder in his hands. It was "This is Your Life." You'd spend a lot of time with him. You'd do media all day long and then go to bed at two in the morning. Seven o'clock the next day your phone would ring, and he'd say (imitating Vince), "Big D, you ready to go to the gym?" I'd go, "F---, you?ve gotta be sh--ing me? I just got three hours of sleep?" I think that was his whole thing. The guy was like an android. He never sold. He never slept. He went 100 miles an hour. You drank scotch with him all night, and the next day he'd get up and train the legs like mad. What the f---? This guy doesn't sell sh--. To me, you set a pretty high bar. The thing was, if you didn't kind of come up to that expectation, you better not walk into his office and beg for something or demand anything unless you are right up there with him. His personality is one of his strongest traits. He was in a position to say to you, "What have you done?"

 

Keller: Do you think he would have been a great wrestler, and do you think he regrets not having done that full time when he was younger?

 

Nash: He and Hogan stole it a couple of years ago at WrestleMania. To me, he's not that great of an athlete, but he was able to have the psychology and he's a fearless mother f---er. He don't give a sh--. To me, when he held the trash can and Shane (McMahon) jumped off and put that double dropkick into his face, I look at that and I'm thinking, it's the father's son. (laughs) I couldn't imagine telling my son, "All right, tonight, son, I'm going to put a trash can right in front of my face and I want you to jump 900 feet and kick it in my mouth." It's unfathomable. I look at that and I realize they've given so much to this business on so many levels that I have absolutely nothing to say but f---in' way to go. (laughs)

 

Keller: Are you surprised that Stephanie McMahon has taken on a greater and more high profile role than Shane has?

 

Nash: No, because I think Shane is more of the office guy. I think Shane is kind of the organizer. I think Shane will take Linda's part and Steph will take Vince's part. Shane's got good ideas, but I just think that Stephanie is more geared toward that, especially with Paul (Triple H) as her husband. I think that Shane is really good in the media. I think the only thing is Shane is a little more current than everybody else. I think Shane keeps up with trends. Shane was the one who came up with the name Diesel.

 

Keller: Didn't he come up with the idea for the DX video? He saw something similar to it at a club?

 

Nash: I think so. He said, "Diesel, Dad. It's like, buff, for black dudes." It was right before Shaq was Diesel. Ninety-three was way before that. Shane's always been ahead of the curve on that. He has a hip factor that people would never get from the Greenwich white boy image.