10/24 RAW Thread

[sek69]

I pretty much started this thread to ask 2 questions:

 

1. Did Kane hurt himself in that 3 way or was he just trying to cover for the match being such a clusterfuck?

 

2. Was that segment with Vince WWE's Fingerpoke of Doom segment that we'll be looking back at years from now? I don't think I've seen a more painful to watch segment than that.

[Strummer]

It looked like Kane hurt himself on the attempted back suplex on Big Show. I think he was legit pissed.

 

And you know Vince wrote that JR segment. I wish I could say I'm suprised.

[Mad Dog]

Actually I think this is the WWF's second fingerpoke since coming back to USA. I think this in addition to Linda's stupid heel turn could turn a lot of fans off.

[Guest EastCoastJ]

No one is going to get turned off by it. WWE has been pulling moronic stuff like this for years that makes you ashamed to watch their product and the loyalists have proven they'll always tune in the next week. It's nowhere near Fingerpoke of Doom level because it doesn't degrade the World Title, it's just a childish skit that in the end has very little to do with their house show and pay-per-view business.

 

If Stephanie McMahon comparing Vince McMahon's crooked steroid trial victory to September 11th terrorist attacks just days afterwards doesn't drive people instantly away from WWE in droves, no classless act will. Boring, plodding television is the only thing that will.

[goodhelmet]

WWE has been pulling moronic stuff like this for years that makes you ashamed to watch their product and the loyalists have proven they'll always tune in the next week.

Yeah, and then you have people like me who were loyal Monday Night wrestling viewers for years who don't watch on Monday nights anymore. In fact, I turned out in early 2002 watching dog skits. I can only imagine what I would have thought of a Katie Vick skit or this BS.

 

Seriously, why do you guys watch this stuff? In the hopes of getting a good match? Maybe... just maybe you'll hear a great promo?

[sek69]

 

Seriously, why do you guys watch this stuff? In the hopes of getting a good match? Maybe... just maybe you'll hear a great promo?

 

 

Same reason a miner digs through tons of rock to find one gold nugget, I guess.

 

I'm a fan of professional wrestling, and for better or worse, WWE is professional wrestling. If WCW was still around, or if TNA was head to head, I probably wouldn't watch RAW anymore either.

 

BTW, Steph really needs to get her money back from the doctor who did her boob job. She's only a year or so older than me and she already has old lady titties.

[JHawk]

WWE has been pulling moronic stuff like this for years that makes you ashamed to watch their product and the loyalists have proven they'll always tune in the next week.

Yeah, and then you have people like me who were loyal Monday Night wrestling viewers for years who don't watch on Monday nights anymore. In fact, I turned out in early 2002 watching dog skits. I can only imagine what I would have thought of a Katie Vick skit or this BS.

 

Seriously, why do you guys watch this stuff? In the hopes of getting a good match? Maybe... just maybe you'll hear a great promo?

I've actually resorted to watching tapes a day or two after the fact so I can fast forward through the garbage and watch what I enjoy.

 

I can get through the average episode of Raw in about ten minutes these days, including the time it takes to stop the tape to grab a beer and make a sandwich.

[goodhelmet]

That's kind of my point JHawk. If you can pick up the best matches through a comp or tape it and watch with a fast forward button handy, I could understand. Still, everytime I have tried to sit through a full episode of RAW or SD! I feel like I am being tortured.

[anarchistxx]

I don't bother watching WWE anymore. If there is a good match I want to see I'll just borrow it off my mate, who watches religiously, and put it on DVD. I actually enjoyed the Raw Homecoming show, although I only saw the Pipers Pit, the Austin Scene, the Ladder Match and Angle/HBK. 3 of those made it to my WWE TV DVD.

 

If WCW was still around, or if TNA was head to head, I probably wouldn't watch RAW anymore either.

 

If they were around WWE wouldn't be churning out this shit. The whole reason the product sucks is lack of competition.

[Guest KingPK]

I tore myself away from Up Your Arsenal to watch UFC last night and decided to check out what was happening on RAW....and the first image I see is of Vince jamming a chainsaw or something up a fake ass. Needless to say, I changed the channel. I mean, at least the Katie Vick thing furthered an angle and led to a match.....what the hell is this going to lead to?

[Guest Dangerous A]

Tivo is the best thing to happen to my Raw and SD viewing. You know a show is bad when you are fast forwarding through the show and stopping and going back to see some new commercial you hadn't seen or thought might be interesting.

[Guest EastCoastJ]

I don't think that the lack of competition argument really holds much water as to why WWE isn't setting the world on fire right now. Maybe Vince McMahon himself as an on air character has gotten completely nuerotic by this point due to not having competition to worry about, but there is always competition. Other prime time television is competition. Any other sporting event running on pay-per-view or touring arenas is competition.

 

The WWF fell into to a lull infinitely worse in the early to mid 90's when they did have competition from WCW, a ton more prominent regional territories, and with boxing being a huge deal and a big draw on PPV. Creative peaks and valleys are going to be part of wrestling promotions for as long as they exist, and to blame it on a lack of competition isn't seeing the whole picture as WWE has historically proven to go with what brought them to the dance until business hits rock bottom. WWE is stuck in the Attitude mindset right now. and chances are just like the cartoonish mold of the 80's, they'll stick with it until things fall so low that today's business looks incredible.

[Coffey]

I just changed the channel last night during the Vince skit. To be honest, I wasn't paying close attention to the show anyway because I was playing World of Warcraft and discussing a planned trip to Philadelphia with a friend. That being said, I knew the skit was going to be bad, I knew I wasn't going to want to discuss it on message forums, so I just changed the channel to MNF, saw it was a blowout, then turned it to AMC, saw it was Scream 2 again, then went to Spike to watch some UFC.

 

Eventually, I went back to the Raw show because I had said friend over to watch it, and since I wasn't really paying attention anyway, I turned it back.

 

When The Ultimate Fighter was getting ready to start, I changed the channel back to Spike TV. I didn't care what happened in the WWE main event, and I still don't. I don't know who won or what happened. I just know I wasn't going to miss the first five-ten minutes of TUF again like I did last week.

 

I'm thinking of just getting some more Puro tapes or something. I got twenty or twenty-five bucks or so to blow. Maybe I'll check out some non-Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada/Akiyami/Taue AJPW. I'm kinda interested in checking out Kojima and Ogawa. I wouldn't mind having that recent Kensuke/Kenta match either. Goodhelmet or someone wanna make some recomendations?

[sek69]

One big problem is that ever since the Austin program, Vince thinks the answer to everything is more McMahons on TV. If ratings are slipping, you're sure to see the BAH-GAW CHAIRMAN OF TEH BOARD frog walking out to the ring. If they want to tweak the smarks, they bring out Stephie McFreakboobies as well. For something like WWE Homecoming, maximum McMahonage is required so they bring out Robo Mom too.

 

I can't wait till Declan gets old enough (Vince is probably waiting for him to be potty-trained) so he can be plastered all over RAW as well.

[Coffey]

Declan

Who's that?

[sek69]

Shane's son, he was born in Feb. 2004.

[Coffey]

Heh.

 

So, who was the nurse in the skit anyway? A lot of people seem to be talking about how hot she was.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

Heel Helms is going to be my new favorite Raw guy.

[Mad Dog]

So what's Vince going to do next week to get back at the fans?

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

Air Raw at the regularly scheduled time.

[Guest Sass]

Wowza...

 

Check out some of the feedback Meltzer got for this show.

 

Enjoy:

 

Dear Dave-

 

I think if J.R. or Austin spend 7 minutes on an upcoming Raw making fun of Vince's Royal Rumble collapse, complete with running the footage repeatedly, re-enacting it, making fun of Vince being an old man trying to be athletic, then sitting on his ass, then trying to walk on his good leg to be macho in front of a bunch of younger, roided up guys, only to destroy that leg by doing so- That might be in some way a receipt for the tasteless exploitation of Ross' serious health scare.

 

This has always been a sleazy form of entertainment, and I can take it most of the time, but on so many levels, last night's "comedy segment" was disturbing.

 

I look forward to your take on this, and I'm sure you will articulate it better than I have.

 

Adam Richman

 

Dave,

The Angle-Cena match was the only reason I tuned in, then it sucked -

along with the whole Vince nonsense. I race home from work to watch

this???After nearly 25 years, they're getting close to losing me.

I'm turning to TNA. Yeah, there's a bit of a small-time feel to it, but

so did the territories broadcasts I grew up on. I've followed TNA in your

newsletter, but I'm watching the broadcasts as if I know nothing about

the product. Those folks are doing a pretty good job making the special

guys seem special. I also love how Tenay brought up the whole Road

Dogg-Billy Gunn in their past lives thing. Rather than insult my

intelligence by not mentioning things like that, they make me feel like

my knowledge of the industry actually means something - and it gives the

storylines so much more meaning.

 

Keep up the good work,

Kevin Witt

 

 

As a media analyst, I was shocked in the worst way possible by Vince McMahon's decision to display his lack of better judgment on national tv. Last night's Raw was beyond disgraceful.While I am sure Vince is looking for water cooler discussion, this was negative in every sense of the imagination. A seven minute skit on Vince McMahon "pulling items out of JR's ass"? Low brow humor was never this low on any mainstream show. This was just gross. How long before USA steps in and says "we don't want this stuff on our network"?

 

Allan St. John

 

RAW was an average show this week with one exception - the Vince McMahon

skit. I've read the reviews on the internet and a lot of people HATED

this segment with a passion. Many said that this was the most tasteless

thing they saw since Katie Vick. I might be in the vast minority here,

but I enjoyed the segment. If it was anybody in the role it probably

would have been horrible, but because it was Vince, I thought it was

hilarious. I think it's safe to say that JR is not really fired and that

he's coming back soon. I will probably get a lot of heat for this, but I

thought this segment was better than the entire Bound For Glory PPV.

Whether you found the segment funny or not, at least you have to give

Vince credit for trying. That's the way Vince has been for years - he

tries different things. He experiments. Not everything is going to be a

hit. My dad brought up a good point about TNA - their is NO humor in

their product, at least intentional humor. They take themselves WAY too

seriously and what they need to do is settle down and have some fun. TNA

is going to reach WWE's level overnight. I think that's one of the main

problems with TNA from day one - they've tried way too hard to reach

WWE's level in a ridiculously quick amount of time. It's realistically

going to take years for TNA to get as popular as WWE. If TNA keeps

hotshotting 10 Ultimate X matches a year and try to make every match a

"Wrestlemania main event" then they are never going to have any real

credibility. TNA is going to need more than just guys who can go out

there are do a million highspots per match. Most of the guys in TNA

right now are faceless - they have the same ring gear, the same moves,

the same style, and so forth. TNA desperately needs more character

development and more compelling storylines. And more imporantly, they

need to slow down a little bit and quit throwing things to the wall

constantly, hoping that something will stick. Why do you think WCW went

out of business? One reason is because, when things got desperate, they

hotshotted and try to do as many things as possible in a short amount of

time, hoping that they could turn things around. TNA is making the same

mistakes. Panda Energy has pumped millions of dollars into TNA and TNA

has not been making a profit. A lot of money could be saved if TNA just

slowed down. Do they really need to spend tons of money on somebody like

Kevin Nash, who didn't even wrestle at the PPV. And how many people

reading this actually spend money to see Kevin Nash at this point? On

the other side of the coin, why invest so much time and energy into a

guy like AJ Styles when he's probably going to seriously hurt himself

one of these days. Yes, AJ and Daniels slowed things down at the PPV

which was a good thing, but I'm talking about the X-Division in general.

Sure, it's cool to see these guys doing crazy stunts all the time. The

problem is that they get overdone and the spots don't mean anything when

the guys don't sell the moves. Another problem is that someone is going

to get seriously hurt one of these days. The thing with Vince McMahon is

that he takes smart, calculated risks. The segment he did on RAW didn't

risk anybody getting seriously hurt. He wanted to do a segment that

would draw some laughs and generate some heat. A lot of people say they

hated the segment and it was one of the worst things they ever saw. How

much do you want to bet that these people will be watching RAW next

week? Are they really smart fans, or are they just dumb marks that fell

right into Vince McMahon's hands?

 

Aaron Rift

 

The Vince/ JR hospital segment was one of the most tasteless segments I have ever seen. I don't understand what Vince is thinking. Segments like that will decrease the ratings and people will stop watching WWE. Fans want interesting and compelling storylines that involve around the wrestlers not the an announcer and McMahon's. I am also getting tired of Eric Bishoff trying to screw over Cena. I would like to see a new GM for Raw and wouldn't mind Cena dropping the belt to Angle. The last couple Smackdown's have been more entertaining then Raw.

 

Brent Hughes

 

Colorado Springs, Colorado

 

Ardent web site reader, subscriber. Never been compelled to email you before. I have just one question.How long has Steph allowed Vince Russo back ?

 

Horrible. Absolutely brutal.

Josh Schultz- Chicago

 

I know individual NFL and NBA players have and WCW did so probably unintentionally, but has a sports league or entertainment fed. ever so purposely given its fanbase "the FU"?

Nick Branscomb

 

Dave,

 

So let me get this straight, Stephanie McMahon knocks the fans for lack of creativity in their chants and then they air an angle(JR/doctor) which is practically a word for word rehash of the horrible Hurricane/HHH angle done two years prior. I really believe Mick was shooting when he told her she was killing the business. Lastly, putting the McMahons on Raw is one way of closing the quality gap with Smackdown, but not in the way I hoped.

Keep up the good work,

S.Walsh

 

Dave,

One of the worst Raws I have ever seen. Who ever

wrote the JR operation skit with Vince, should be

fired for being stupid and Vince should fire himself

for doing it !!!

I've about had it with the whole mess and I

absolutely will not buy another pay per view from WWE!

TNA is looking better every week!

Thanks, Mark Hudson

 

Dave,

After watching the segment with Dr. Vince, I just

wish TNA was head to head with Raw. That way the fans

could enjoy true wrestling on Monday nights.

 

Chris Wickwire

Bear, Delaware

 

Dave,

I have sat through many angles on Raw(Mark Henry and travesites, Mae Young giving birth to a hand, Katie Vick) however tonight was the first time that I was so annoyed and disgusted that I actually changed the channel. Vince McMahon making fun of JR's recent surgery doing a mock skit where he pulls JR"s head out of ass. It shouldn't have been JR's head in there it should have been The McMahon's and the creative team because they truly are the ones who have their headsd up their asses. I hjave decided not to watch the rest of tonight's Raw. I know it is only wrestling and most likely an angle now but there just is a point where you have to say enough is enough. I'm sure I will be back watching again next week but if they do another segment like that I will stop watching. Totally ridiculous, pointless and just outright wrong. Imagine my trying to explain to a non wrestling fan this segment. Anyhow just thought I would pass my thoughts along.

 

David Fournier

Watertown, MA

 

Dave,

 

I had to write after this evening's travesty on RAW (10/24). I lived

through Katie Vick. I watched Mae Young give birth to a hand. I stuck

through all the brutal, insulting, senseless gimmicks. But when I saw

Vince McMahon yank a bottle of BBQ sauce out of a (supposed) model of

JR's rear end, I decided, finally, that enough was enough. How can Vince

think that colon cancer is funny or something to be made fun of... or

something that could be the subject of a comedic angle. My family has

questioned my sanity long enough and now, WWE has finally crossed a line

and made me switch it off for good. Vinnie Mac and the crew have lost

all sense of what we the wrestling public want to see. Intelligent story

lines and awesome wrestling, that's it.... it really doesn't seem that

difficult. I cannot believe how far they have strayed and how they

believe that we still want to see McMahons on the screen week after

week, creating storylines that make us sick to our stomachs.

 

Goodbye WWE, it was nice knowing you.

 

Best regards,

Andy Walton

 

Count me in as one of the (I assume, many) people who channel flipped over to Monday Night Football about 1 minute into that JR sketch.

 

It's amazing how each week Raw gets more self-absorbed and boring, and always manages to somehow sink lower.

 

Joe Borzotta

 

Just when I thought wwe couldnt sink any lower they have this horrendous JR

skit, complete with vince showing once again how big his ego is. Makes me ask

why I watch wrestling.

Richard Armstrong

[Coffey]

I love when fans try to put themselves over. "I might get a lot of heat from this but I thought the Vince segment was better than the entire Bound for Glory PPV." Yeah, he's not trying to start shit at all. It kinda pisses me off that he uses to term "heat" to describe the backlash he's going to get from people for being an idiot.

[sek69]

Yeah, the people who troll Meltz don't even seem to be trying anymore.

 

I'm sure he really thinks the Dr. Vince skit was better than the entire TNA show. I would make the case that if he truly felt that way, perhaps he should be watching gross-out comedy instead of pro wrestling.

[Coffey]

...or at least not watching TNA.