Was the Invasion always destined to fail?

[Loss]

I would agree that Sting and Goldberg were the big picks, with Flair also being at that level as WCW's Babe Ruth. They had tons of angle options bringing in Bischoff but they never really used him to his full potential when he finally signed anyway. Of course, the same is true for Goldberg.

 

Also, I've always suspected that the massive buyrate was because people were expecting surprise WCW debuts on the pay-per-view.

[KrisZ]

 

 

I think the only way we'd ever get an interpromotional feud the way we want it is with third-party booking. Vince can have every honest intention in the world of presenting WCW as the WWF's equal, but he's so intrinsic to his own biases that he likely won't even notice when he's doing something like that. I think that's human nature, it's not even something I see as a huge flaw necessarily. He's just too in the trenches to be objective. Vince needed a week-to-week advisor outside his bubble. He supposedly called Dave at the very beginning to ask him how he would do it and Dave gave him his advice, but Vince went in pretty much the exact opposite direction of that.

 

All of this......you would have to have someone booking it with no preconceived notions coming in but of course that person would be working under Vince who would veto whatever the fuck he wanted to.

 

 

I'm not sure Vince was so much the problem, as the people around him who told him what he wanted to hear in order to earn brownie points from the boss. Apparently, Kevin Dunn was in Vince's ear constantly pushing that they needed to keep the WWE brand strong during this time period.

 

 

Well when I was talking about Vince....Kevin was in my mind.....You don't have one without the other.

[WingedEagle]

I would agree that Sting and Goldberg were the big picks, with Flair also being at that level as WCW's Babe Ruth. They had tons of angle options bringing in Bischoff but they never really used him to his full potential when he finally signed anyway. Of course, the same is true for Goldberg.

 

Also, I've always suspected that the massive buyrate was because people were expecting surprise WCW debuts on the pay-per-view.

 

Weren't they hyping it that someone from Team WWF would turn rather than any surprise new faces showing up?

[Stiva]

 

I would agree that Sting and Goldberg were the big picks, with Flair also being at that level as WCW's Babe Ruth. They had tons of angle options bringing in Bischoff but they never really used him to his full potential when he finally signed anyway. Of course, the same is true for Goldberg.

 

Also, I've always suspected that the massive buyrate was because people were expecting surprise WCW debuts on the pay-per-view.

 

Weren't they hyping it that someone from Team WWF would turn rather than any surprise new faces showing up?

 

 

That was Survivor Series later in the year when Angle defected to The Alliance.

[WingedEagle]

 

 

I would agree that Sting and Goldberg were the big picks, with Flair also being at that level as WCW's Babe Ruth. They had tons of angle options bringing in Bischoff but they never really used him to his full potential when he finally signed anyway. Of course, the same is true for Goldberg.

 

Also, I've always suspected that the massive buyrate was because people were expecting surprise WCW debuts on the pay-per-view.

 

Weren't they hyping it that someone from Team WWF would turn rather than any surprise new faces showing up?

 

 

That was Survivor Series later in the year when Angle defected to The Alliance.

 

 

Got it, thanks. Were they pushing potential debuts at the Invasion show?

[Loss]

No. But if you think back to what the norms of wrestling were in 2001, why wouldn't the average fan think more WCW stars were on the way to the WWF?

[kjh]

To answer some of the questions in the first post, the high-point for me is Austin driving into the arena and cleaning house ahead of Invasion. In fact, I really like that big 10 man at Invasion; it has a massive feel, even with The Dudleys and Rhyno and is front of a hot crowd. Amazingly, the moment it died for me was in the same match when Austin turned on Team WWF. That was it for me, even as an 11 year old and it absolutely started me down the path of not watching wrestling for a year or so when Smackdown pulled me back in with Rey and Eddie doing cool shit.

 

Given the hand WWE dealt themselves, they really should have had Angle turn on Austin for treating him like such a clown in the month prior. The Austin turn clearly wasn't working and they lucked into an angle where they could seamlessly transition him back into his old role.

[fakeplastictrees]

I don't think the Vince ego stuff is a spacegoat at all. For the past few years reports have been coming out about Raw re-writes mere hours before Raw goes on the air. Former WWE writers have all said Vince changes things on the fly. Paul Heyman had to remind Vince that Smackdown was still Vince's show because Vince was in a mindset to crush and ruin Smackdown! And of course there is a the famous 'There is only one titan in Titan Towers'! story. Vince is a control freak and regardless of the talent WWE had at the time, I still believe that it would have all revolved around the McMahons in some way.

 

In all honesty, I think The InVasion worked out for the best for WWE as WWE didn't have to deal with the politics of the guys who decided to sit out their contracts. How many things would have flat out NOT gotten off the ground with Hogan, Nash, and other big egos floating around. The Invasion could have been WWE's 2011 in 2001.

[clintthecrippler]

Wasnt the deal with the proposed WCW TV show that a taping had been scheduled but then Spike TV didnt want a WCW-branded show? And that the two hour Saturday night slot that went to the Excess recap/interview/call in show later that summer was where WWE were planning to put a WCW branded show?

 

If all of that was indeed correct, I do wonder if Vince would have given more credibility to the WCW crew if ratings for a separately branded TV show would have done well in early showings.

[Sidebottom]

 

Meh, at least it was different.

[iamthedoctor]

A dream dream scenario would be to play it where both sides are sort of tweeners, where you can see some of their arguments, and this way you get buy-in from old WCW fans too.

 

That would have been the angle to end them all. But they couldn't run it. They had to run shit involving DDP and Booker T, so what do you expect really?

 

 

How does the Sting argument hold out today in terms of looking back at this era?

 

He claimed in a interview the main reason he wouldn't sign with WWF back then is because of when Booker came in and did a promo with Rock and Rock looked at him and said "who in the blue hell are you?".

 

I guess Sting saw that as a lack of total disrespect but he was adamant about that one line being the reason he wouldnt sign back then.

 

[JaymeFuture]

I want to thank everybody for the answers and comments - the show is now online to listen to, as the panel discuss, from start to finish, the entire Invasion angle. Including inside notes from the Observer and Figure Four Weekly Newsletters from 2001, breaking down how the biggest potential angle of all time fell apart, week by week. And of course, your feedback on expectations, high points, and the moment it died for you. Check it out, and as always, let us know what you think...

 

http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/web/8bhesf/SCGRadio17-WasTheInvasionDoomedToFail.mp3

[TRMD]

Let's remember that the Invasion PPV did more buys than any non-Mania PPV in history, and that was with WCW's B-team. The idea of WWF vs. WCW was enough of a draw that it could've been the biggest money angle in history even with the guys they had.

 

I believe that was in part because of the most successful "Go Home Show" in company history.

 

Austin turning back face on Raw was not only the best moment of the InVasion (IMO, of course) but it gave the WWF a much needed shot of adrenaline.

 

Unfortunately, they turned him back Heel at the PPV itself.

[Petey]

The Austin turn was incredibly well done and well built throughout the episode.