Question for Observer readers

[Loss]

From Meltzer's latest feedback:

 

Your tirade on Big Dave's comment about "AJ Styles doing his stunts" was

tremendous.

 

You can hate it, but you can't argue with what is over.

Anyone fill in the blanks on what Dave actually said? Thanks.

[goodhelmet]

I can type it up later.

 

The gist was that just because it is spot-fu or whatever does not mean it isn't wrestling. Wrestling is what the public says it is. Dave says just because he hates flaming table shit it is still a form of wrestling.

[Mad Dog]

Batista on Styles " I've also seen clips of their car wreck matches with AJ Styles doing his stunts. That's not wrestling. Wrestling is storytelling."

 

Meltzer's response "A note to Dave and all those living with blinders on. Pro wrestling is whatever works to the public under the umbrella of pro wrestling. Everything promoted as pro wrestling becomes pro wrestling. From a style standpoint, there is stuff that doesn't work, and may absolutely be stupid, and you can call it stupid pro wrestling, but it's still pro wrestling.

 

The mentality that only one kind of wrestling "is wrestling" and everything else, even if it draws, or is popular, "is not wrestling", is almost a complete lack of understanding of the business.

 

You may not like another type of wrestling. I hate "Slash em up for no reason and bleed and go through barbed wire, fire and glass crap" but if there is an audience willing to see it and it's profitable to run, thenpeople are going to do it. Even with few people going to see it, at this point if you just have people willing to do it for little or no money, it can exist. But whatever style garners audience support, that is pro wrestling of it's time

 

The Sheik did 3:00 main events that consisted of little but blood, brawling that would look terrible by today's standards and bad finishes. Obviously, for years, he was a fantastic draw. Sam Mushnick didn't want him and it didn't work when he did it in St. Louis, but it worked in a lot of places. Later, after time, nobody bought it, and Sheik killed cities. Times changed. What was a great style for drawing money and main event business, ended up killing it due to it's repetitiveness. I think that's the whole point of learning business is to understand these lessons, and not be so blinded as to say Austin and Hogan never came off the top rope, therefore nobody draws money coming off the top rope and when you're on top you can't do that stuff.

 

The attitude that only one way is right, and everything else is wrong, creates a repetitive style and a lack of individuality, which, quite frankly, is a major problem in the WWE these days. It's like when brainwashed wrestlers who don't know history that no high-flier ever drew money, and don't realize that for the standards of their time, Ray Stevens, Mil Mascaras, Dynamite Kid, and Argentina Rocca were great high fliers and not just draws, but people who turned company business around, and those are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to names like that.

 

In Mexico today, high fliers help bring people back week in and week out in the same buildings far better than anywhere in the world because they are great high fliers, and if pushed and protected, and protected is the key. There is a reason Mistico almost never does jobs and draws money on top being 150lbs, or why the original Tiger Mask, who never did jobs, had so much more impact than those who foloowed him that did.

 

Styles is, by leaps and bounds, the biggest merchandise and DVD seller in TNA. He's not in a place where he can be a great draw, but within his place, he, by all measurable standards, has been the biggest money producer in the company. Now keep this in mind this is a guy whose interviews are below average, his look is average at best, his size is below average and his push is good, but no better than a half-dozen other guys in the company. Yet by far he's the biggest revenue producer.

 

I'd say that that would seem to indicate his in-ring must be a pretty major positive to the audience. So what he does isn't wrestling. Times and tastes change, and they are changing faster than ever now. If Styles' stuff isn't marketable and people don't buy it, you can say he's not being smart because he's doing a style that isn't working. If it is working, you can say he's not being smart because of the injury risk. You can't say it's not wrestling.

 

And if the people buy it, and based on watching crowds react to his matches this year, they do, far more than Bastista's actual in-ring matches (obviously not more than his actual character which is a different issue but also has a lot to do with where each man works), then it's not only wrestling, it's successful wrestling.

 

There is a big difference between wrestling well within your own style. The funny thing is, most fans recognize it by watching without even understanding wrestling or being told, because it's pretty obvious. In a surprising amount of cases, people who think they are the only ones who know the secret of the one and only way to work and draw money, and that everyone else is stupid, have an ironic view. besides, most of the time when people talk about working in the ring to draw money, it's comical how little they know, because in most cases, the things that make the biggest difference whenm it comes to drawing money on the big stage is not one's work, but one's promo ability and charisma, usually not what they do from bell to bell."

 

[The Thread Killer]

Like Dave Fucking Batista knows what is and isn't wrestling. He's a juiced up dope who's about one or two more injuries away from being a historical footnote.

 

I'm no huge fan of spot-fu, but the idea that Batista of all damn people is in any position to judge what wrestling is, that's what pisses me off. Who the hell does he think he is, Lou Freaking Thesz?

 

Try having a match that doesn't suck, roidboy...then tell me about wrestling.

[Coffey]

Well, to be fair, he is the current Heavyweight champion of the largest wrestling promotion on the planet. I mean, that doesn't mean that he has the best workrate ever or anything but I think it gives him a right to speak his mind, esepcially as it pertains to wrestling.

[Mad Dog]

When has being the champion of a company shown that a person has any clue on how the wrestling business works? He can speak his mind but it doesn't mean people are going to call him out when he makes stupid statements. Meltz completely schooled him and reading that makes me feel embrassed on the part of Batista.

[Coffey]

I'm just saying, he has just as much right to critisize TNA as we have to support it. Maybe even moreso since he has a better grasp of the business, since he's involved in it.

 

I mean, people would listen to World Heavyweight Champion Batista of WWE before they listen to Joshua Coffey from the internet. That's all I'm saying.

[Mad Dog]

Being involved in the business doesn't mean you have any better grasp of it. Just tune into Sunday Night Football and listen to Joe Theismann. He's played football his entire life and doesn't know the first thing about it outside of the QB position.

 

Look at Vern Gagne who owned the third largest promotion in the U.S. He was in the business for years and could've had a roster of Hulk Hogan, the Freebirds, the Road Warriors, Sgt. Slaughter, Curt Hennig, the Rockers, etc. for the 80s had he had a clue of the actual landscape of the business.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

Batista has a repertoire of a dozen moves and wrestles at Nash speed 90% of the time. He only ventured into wrestling because there is fuck all money in bodybuilding however he didn't realise that until he was already in his 30s. He may be the champion of the WWE, but as Shawn Michaels once said "that piece of tin is worthless" and is bestowed upon the superstar that meets two standards 1) being over 2) being a relative of a friend of Vince or being physically imposing to the point Vince believes he wouldn't be able to beat you up.

 

It's not like Batista is a serious sports personality with tons of talent who legitimately fought to get where he is, he's more or less acknowledged without HHH favouring him he wouldn't have fuck all more than once. Hell, the show he is on has a woman with a squished pretzel for a facial disfigurement and a guy that looks like Papa Shango with polka dot make up on, how serious are you meant to take any of what they say or do anymore?

[Guest Mike Campbell]

Not to mention that Batista's opinion came from watching a press conferance and clips.

[Guest SweetMama Scaat]

Damn, I Thought everybody liked Batista.

 

Two things:

ALOT of people say that Styles matches are spotfest. I like the guy, but its not the first time Ive those statements against him.

 

Batista seems to be saying alot of shit lately that seems out of character for him. I thinking hes doing politicking more than sharing his own oppionons...

[Guest Crucifixio Jones]

Well, to be fair, he is the current Heavyweight champion of the largest wrestling promotion on the planet. I mean, that doesn't mean that he has the best workrate ever or anything but I think it gives him a right to speak his mind, esepcially as it pertains to wrestling.

The Ultimate Warrior was once the WWF Heavyweight Champion, too.

 

Damn, I Thought everybody liked Batista.

You also thought everyone here had a massive hard-on for Jesse Jane. Guess it just turns out you're not very smart or observant. Your own opinions and biases blind you, apparently.

 

Two things:

ALOT of people say that Styles matches are spotfest. I like the guy, but its not the first time Ive those statements against him.

No one's denying that allegation. Unless you've just decided to IGNORE the previous posts, what everyone is saying is 'Who is Batista to say that spotfests aren't "wrestling"?'

 

Batista seems to be saying alot of shit lately that seems out of character for him. I thinking hes doing politicking more than sharing his own oppionons...

Yet another point we've already discussed in this folder when he first made those comments. Do you even know HOW to read?

[sek69]

To me, it seems like Batista has bought into the "WWE Style is your Lord and Master, there are no other styles before it" mantra that Vince drills into everyone's heads. Anyone who doesn't work kicky-punchy style is told they can't work and will never get over so it's no surprise a WWE guy thinks what AJ does isn't wrestling.

[Guest SweetMama Scaat]

undefinedYou also thought everyone here had a massive hard-on for Jesse Jane. Guess it just turns out you're not very smart or observant. Your own opinions and biases blind you, apparently.

 

Yeah, I did the same jesse jane whom you use as a desktop screensaver on your personal computer.

 

I think its cute how sometimes CJ waits and sits quielty then he sees a thread and gets all antsy cause he had to play nice for so long. Then he comes out and acts tough and semi-manly. Hawt~!

 

If I know my CJ tales, any minute some other people will come in tell him they agree with everything he says and they casually mention how cool he is.

 

 

 

 

 

What if Dave Batisita is fucking around, maybe he really has no problem with Styles or his work. But he as Smackdowns top guy wants to take a stab at TNAs top guy. Just to get people talking, Just to start some shit. Like some people on the internet, maybe he has a thing for drama.