Grimmas Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Discuss here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Pretty much every worker who got their start in the 70s seems to name Ray Stevens as the GOAT. Flair does. Kevin Sullivan does. I've heard numerous guys on shoots name Stevens too. Just noticed he wasn't nominated. Even though there is a footage issue, I think Stevens is just an interesting case in general since from the footage we have -- and we have hours of Stevens post-prime on tape -- it's very hard to see where they are coming from. What is interesting though is that a lot of guys in the business also think Shawn Michaels is a contender for GOAT and superficially at least, he had similar skills to Stevens, i.e. he was a huge bumper who made other people look good. I wonder if there's anything to a Stevens vs. HBK comparison in terms of how they are perceived by the workers and how they are perceived by people who post on PWO. Reviews here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/30606-ray-stevens-nick-bockwinkel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Wrestlers' praise for Michaels and Stevens: "Could do anything in the ring" "Could go all night" At least part of this community tends to care more about a wrestler doing the right thing in the ring at the right time for the right reason. The difference between Michaels and Stevens is that we have the footage to at least understand the argument with Michaels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I haven't watched much Stevens, but I am suspicious. I feel like he is treated the same way Angle and Michaels are by wrestlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 The guy is basically hero worshipped by an entire generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 The guy is basically hero worshipped by an entire generation. So is Michaels and Angle. They both stink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 The bizarre thing is though that his tag partners and contemporaries, Bockwinkel and Patterson could still go in their 40s. In the footage I've been watching, Stevens seems done by 73. Like there's not even the shadow of a guy who could go like we're led to believe. I watched that match from the 1960s vs. Al Fredericks and .... really Stevens didn't look that much different from what he did in the early-mid70s tagging with Bock. He remains the biggest mystery to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 The bizarre thing is though that his tag partners and contemporaries, Bockwinkel and Patterson could still go in their 40s. In the footage I've been watching, Stevens seems done by 73. Like there's not even the shadow of a guy who could go like we're led to believe. I watched that match from the 1960s vs. Al Fredericks and .... really Stevens didn't look that much different from what he did in the early-mid70s tagging with Bock. He remains the biggest mystery to me. Michaels before his comeback was pretty good and then when he returned (got older) he stunk. I think Stevens probably had that. While he was athletic I am sure he was pretty awesome, once he started to lose his athleticism he stunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Well, Ric Flair doesn't talk about Stevens' in ring skills, really. He talks about how he was the most insane drinker and mayhem-causer in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Elsewhere he does talk about Stevens as GOAT. On the Funk-Flair joint shoot, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Pretty sure Bob Orton Jr, Dick Slater and Black Jack Mulligan all name Ray Stevens when asked about best opponents or GOAT workers too, in their various shoots. Bockwinkel also names him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Elsewhere he does talk about Stevens as GOAT. On the Funk-Flair joint shoot, for example. The point is that Stevens probably nuked his body with the partying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Partying, hard bumping as well. There's good reason to think/believe he didn't age well. His prime work is barely even documented by San Francisco title histories, let alone videotape. Generally I think there's just not enough evidence to discount the opinions of his peers. Though I'll note that a lot of praise isn't just Stevens. It's Patterson and Stevens. So it's possible that Stevens was this great spot man ala Antonino Rocca (granted a better version) while Pat Patterson played Miguel Perez and kept the match together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachchaos Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Flair called him "the greatest worker" on his podcast with Bret and said something similar when he was on Austin's podcast last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Knowing what we do about wrestling culture, especially from that time period, is it particularly surprising that Stevens is lauded? I mean, the ability to maintain your athleticism while still drunk/hungover is probably enviable as most who try wrestling can barely figure things out sober. I'm not saying he wasn't a great wrestler, but every generation of workers have traits that are valued highly amongst peers and less so with fans. Flair and others looking at Stevens and seeing a guy who could rock and roll and still make it through the next day six times a week was probably more impressive than another guy with better in ring stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 I liked his promo after the Fredericks match. His work seemed pretty standard for a guy cut from the Buddy Rogers cloth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwaukegan Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 A couple of things that stand out about Ray is that he was one of the few non wwf guys whose name would be mentioned in the 1980s. So if monsoon thought enough him and wasnt edited out in post production it says a lot. He was still thought high enough by the AWA that they thought by tossing him on misc shows he could pop a gate. That all being said, the fact he never worked out and let his body deteriorated to where he resembled a middle aged appliance repairman is really hard to ignore and separate even in light of all the greats vouching for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeIsAWork Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 Bumping a very old post to report that I just snagged a bunch of Stevens on Ebay (in transit). Here's the rundown on the matches, no idea whether they'd help PWO bridge some footage issues (noting that I see some matches here discussed above):BEST OF RAY STEVENS VOL. 1Ray Stevens vs Al FredricksRay Stevens vs Red BastienRay Stevens vs Dr. X (HiLites)Ray Stevens vs Dick the BrusierRay Stevens/Pat Patterson vs Billy Robinson/Frank Hill (aka Jules Strongbow)Ray Stevens/Ivan Koloff vs Paul Jones/Masked SuperstarRay Stevens/Jimmy Snuka vs Paul Jones/Masked Superstar (Cage Match)Ray Stevens/Tor Kamata vs Steve O/Brian BlairRay Stevens/Jimmy Snuka vs Ricky Steamboat/Jay Youngblood (HiLites of Stevens & Snuka Winning World Tag Titles)Ray Stevens/Jimmy Snuka vs Ricky Steamboat/Jay Youngblood (Rematch for World Tag Titles)BEST OF RAY STEVENS VOL. 2Ray Stevens vs "Wild" Bill IrwinRay Stevens/Eddie Graham vs Stan Lane/Bryan St.John (Florida Tag Titles)Ray Stevens/Mike Graham vs The Gestapo/Thor the Viking (aka Super Destroyer/.Scott Irwin)Ray Stevens/Jimmy Snuka vs Masked Superstar/Blackjack Mulligan (World Tag Titles)Ray Stevens/Ole Anderson vs Paul Jones/Buddy Landell (Ray & Ole Argue)Ray Stevens vs Gerald FinleyRay Stevens/Ole Anderson vs Rick Thor/El Gran ApolloRay Stevens/Tor Kamata vs Bob & Brad ArmstrongRay Stevens vs Billy RobinsonRay StevensMr. Fuji/ Don Muraco/Buddy Rose/Superstar Graham vs Andre/Rocky Johnson/Salvatore Bellomo/Jimmy Snuka/Pedro Morales in a Best 3 out of 5 falls match BEST OF RAY STEVENS VOL. 3Ray Stevens vs Ron HavenRay Stevens/Tor Kamata vs Jerry Grey/Charlie Fulton (Dick Slater Attacks Stevens & Kamata)Ray Stevens/Jimmy Snuka vs Frank Monte/Tony TusiRay Stevens/Jimmy Snuka/Ivan Koloff vs Ron Ritchie/George Wells/Dewey Robertson (aka Missing Link)Ray Stevens vs Tony GareaRay Stevens/Jimmy Snuka vs Ricky Steamboat/Jay Youngblood (World Tag Titles)Ray Stevens vs Tony RussoRay Stevens vs Rick BennefieldRay Stevens vs Ken Hall/Eddie Dean (Handicap Match)Ray Stevens/Tor Kamata vs Mike Fever/Bobby Ga...(cut off in message) BEST OF RAY STEVENS VOL. 4 Ray Stevens/Tor Kamata vs Don Gilbert/Denny BrownRay Stevens/Tor Kamata vs Rick Thor/Abe JacobsRay Stevens vs Mike JacksonRay Stevens vs Curt HennigRay Stevens vs Tom ZenkRay Stevens/Jimmy Snuka vs Ricky Steamboat/Jay Youngblood (HiLites)Ray Stevens vs Jimmy SnukaRay Stevens vs Jay StrongbowRay Stevens vs Jay Strongbow (Rematch)BEST OF RAY STEVENS VOL. 5Ray Stevens vs Mighty Inoue (Rare Match from Japan)Ray Stevens vs Jules StrongbowRay Stevens vs Sal BellomoRay Stevens vs Crusher BlackwellRay Stevens/Spike Huber vs Sheik Adnan ElKasiey/Crusher BlackwellRay Stevens vs Larry ZbyszkoRay Stevens/Blackjack Mulligan/Baron Von Raschke vs Bruiser/Crusher/Sailor Art ThomasRay Stevens vs Johnny Kharisma (aka Hans Schroeder)Ray Stevens/Midnight Rockers vs Buddy Wolfe/Kevin Kelly/Doug SommersAnd yes, I bought these because I too am wondering about his reputation vs. what we can review. The seller also has a Bockwinkel/Stevens set if anyone wants me to provide the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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