Self-congratulatory charity work in WWE

[WingedEagle]

Do people anywhere really hate Cena? For quite a while its felt like booing him is just what you do at the live shows. But what kind of heat is there for him beyond an otherwise apparently pavlovian response?

[Jingus]

I think the "pavlovian" thing is way overstated. How many other examples can you name of the crowd loudly, passionately reacting to a certain wrestler yet somehow we're supposed to believe that the fans don't really believe the things they're screaming at the top of their lungs? Especially when it's being happening for a decade straight. "They boo John because it's cool to do so and it's part of the show" feels like the same kind of bullshit WWE office excuse as "they chant ECW because I taught them to", trying to take credit for deliberately causing something that just happened naturally.

[Loss]

You should hear the things they say about Cena at goc's preferred tear-your-hair-out message boards (no offense meant, goc, I just thought this was funny), which I sadly do believe captures the zeitgeist.

[WingedEagle]

I think the "pavlovian" thing is way overstated. How many other examples can you name of the crowd loudly, passionately reacting to a certain wrestler yet somehow we're supposed to believe that the fans don't really believe the things they're screaming at the top of their lungs? Especially when it's being happening for a decade straight. "They boo John because it's cool to do so and it's part of the show" feels like the same kind of bullshit WWE office excuse as "they chant ECW because I taught them to", trying to take credit for deliberately causing something that just happened naturally.

 

Because of the business he produces relative to everyone else on the roster. If they really, truly thought this guy was the shits and couldn't stand him I would think business would reflect that.

[Jingus]

It's entirely possible (I'd say, probable) that the people booing him and the people who buy his merchandise are, for the most part, different people. There's thousands of individuals in those crowds, after all. I just can't fathom the idea of hundreds and hundreds of people wearing Cena shirts/hats/armbands but still continuing to chant "YOU CAN'T WRESTLE" at him.

[Matt D]

We talked a little about this here back in April:

 

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/30781-wwe-the-two-fanbases-hot-crowds/

[Sean Liska]

I think the "pavlovian" thing is way overstated. How many other examples can you name of the crowd loudly, passionately reacting to a certain wrestler yet somehow we're supposed to believe that the fans don't really believe the things they're screaming at the top of their lungs? Especially when it's being happening for a decade straight. "They boo John because it's cool to do so and it's part of the show" feels like the same kind of bullshit WWE office excuse as "they chant ECW because I taught them to", trying to take credit for deliberately causing something that just happened naturally.

 

It's not as much that. But at this point, when you buy a ticket to a WWE show, you know John Cena is going to be a major part of it, and has been for 10 years. You know that booing him will in no way influence his place on the card and that it's just playing along at this point. So if you're paying money to boo John Cena now, it's no different than successful heels from other eras who got people to pay money to cheer against them.

[Slasher]

I don't think it is much different than the You Suck chants directed at Kurt Angle. Hell I remember that time when he returned from an injury and the crowd gave him a big hero's welcome only for him to ask them to do the You Suck chant. It actually, in a perverse way, has become a part of their identity and is part of the experience you WANT to have when watching them.

[Jingus]

You know that booing him will in no way influence his place on the card and that it's just playing along at this point. So if you're paying money to boo John Cena now, it's no different than successful heels from other eras who got people to pay money to cheer against them.

...no, I really don't see the sense in that, at all. Why would you want to pay money just to "play along", rather than express your genuine feelings? And all these theories ignore the fact that Cena gets VASTLY different reactions in different places and times. If "it's cool to boo Cena, it's just part of the show" were truly the root cause, then you'd get a much more consistent treatment of him, instead of the heavily polarized response he inspires from various crowds.

 

I don't think it is much different than the You Suck chants directed at Kurt Angle.

Yeah it is. Those chants generally only happened during Angle's music (and even then, I doubt the entire crowd was doing it; you guys keep acting like EVERYONE is booing during these situations). They didn't continue to boo him out of the building during his promos and matches (when he wasn't a heel, anyway).

[WingedEagle]

 

You know that booing him will in no way influence his place on the card and that it's just playing along at this point. So if you're paying money to boo John Cena now, it's no different than successful heels from other eras who got people to pay money to cheer against them.

...no, I really don't see the sense in that, at all. Why would you want to pay money just to "play along", rather than express your genuine feelings? And all these theories ignore the fact that Cena gets VASTLY different reactions in different places and times. If "it's cool to boo Cena, it's just part of the show" were truly the root cause, then you'd get a much more consistent treatment of him, instead of the heavily polarized response he inspires from various crowds.

 

If people's genuine feelings were contempt or even worse apathy of Cena then business should crater with him constantly featured. They'd presumably not pay for that.

[Jingus]

If EVERYONE FELT THE SAME WAY ABOUT HIM, then yes! But clearly they don't. And this is now the third post in a row I've brought this up. Why is it so impossible to believe that there could be one substantial percentage of WWE fans who like Cena, and another substantial percentage of WWE fans who dislike Cena, and these different heterogenous groups of individuals with unidentical opinions might all buy tickets to intermingle at the same shows?

[Ready_Willing_Gable]

I have seen people chanting "John Cena sucks" at the top of their lungs and then the moment John Cena opens his mouth and something entertaining comes out, they're laughing and applauding him with the rest.

 

A big portion of 'Cena sucks' fans don't really think he sucks, they just don't like his position I'm assuming. For reasons like given in the OP.

 

I feel sorry for wrestling fans who pay to go to a show and genuinely think Cena isn't talented enough to be where he is, those lads are generally on wrestlezone.com or something

[SteveJRogers]

I don't think it is much different than the You Suck chants directed at Kurt Angle. Hell I remember that time when he returned from an injury and the crowd gave him a big hero's welcome only for him to ask them to do the You Suck chant. It actually, in a perverse way, has become a part of their identity and is part of the experience you WANT to have when watching them.

Difference is, "YOU SUCK!" was ingrained from early on in his run, and 90 percent of the time Angle has been a heel, so it was appropriate to chant along.

 

Cena's hate comes from years of people saying he isn't worthy of his spot, going back to those Jericho and Angle feuds. Not to mention the idea that he is Triple H like in terms of burying up and coming talent.

[Jingus]

I feel sorry for wrestling fans who pay to go to a show and genuinely think Cena isn't talented enough to be where he is, those lads are generally on wrestlezone.com or something

There's lots of people who do exactly that. I see 'em all over places like Facebook, Youtube comments, and every other non-hardcore-fan website which attracts the general mainstream public. We're truly living in a bubble here if we believe that everyone is booing Cena ironically.

[Ready_Willing_Gable]

 

I feel sorry for wrestling fans who pay to go to a show and genuinely think Cena isn't talented enough to be where he is, those lads are generally on wrestlezone.com or something

There's lots of people who do exactly that. I see 'em all over places like Facebook, Youtube comments, and every other non-hardcore-fan website which attracts the general mainstream public. We're truly living in a bubble here if we believe that everyone is booing Cena ironically.

 

I never said that, I know he has a lot of genuine haters. Just nor is it a black & white love/hate situation, lots of people have very mixed feelings on him.

 

The genuine haters for a lot of the part are made up of net trolls, and adolescents who just discovered there's another wrestling company called Ring Of Honor. Not particularly the most outgoing types.

[Sean Liska]

 

I feel sorry for wrestling fans who pay to go to a show and genuinely think Cena isn't talented enough to be where he is, those lads are generally on wrestlezone.com or something

There's lots of people who do exactly that. I see 'em all over places like Facebook, Youtube comments, and every other non-hardcore-fan website which attracts the general mainstream public. We're truly living in a bubble here if we believe that everyone is booing Cena ironically.

 

I'm not saying it's ironic. But if they really hated Cena on top that much, they're still showing up in such large numbers after 10 years of Cena being the focus of TV every week? Ronnie Garvin was on top for like 3 months and immediately large amounts of people stopped coming to the arena. But these people really, truly hate Cena, yet have spent 10 years buying tickets to see shows he's going to headline just because they're that passionate about seeing him moved down the card? I think that if they hated him that much, they would have stopped watching WWE about 9 years ago. They may not even realize it themselves, but they have a lot of fun booing Cena and cheering his opponents. Rollins-Cena had so much more heat than anything else at SummerSlam.

[Jingus]

Why not? After all, Cena's usually only on for a few minutes of a four-hour show. There's plenty of other stuff on there that they probably like. Ever since Austin/Rock went away, the company has been pushing its entire brand as the top draw, not any particular guy on the roster. In modern WWE business, whoever's on top seems to have a minimal effect on ticket sales either way.

 

I just find it mystifying that "these people all genuinely like and respect John Cena, but they still boo the shit out of him anyway because it's PART OF THE SHOW to do so" is somehow easier to believe than "a large fraction of the audience really doesn't like John Cena". Occam's Razor, y'all.

[goc]

You should hear the things they say about Cena at goc's preferred tear-your-hair-out message boards (no offense meant, goc, I just thought this was funny), which I sadly do believe captures the zeitgeist.

I tried to tell you they were real. Yes there are definitely people who hate Cena the person and not just Cena the character. I would have posted that earlier but I didn't want to keep beating the same "WF sucks" dead horse.

 

As for why those people continue to give WWE their money for the Network and pay to go to shows? I have no idea. I also don't understand why people buy tickets to "hijack" shows. Nothing you chant is going to send a louder message than a half empty arena. But then there are a large amount of stupid people in the world.

[Ready_Willing_Gable]

Ever since Austin/Rock went away, the company has been pushing its entire brand as the top draw, not any particular guy on the roster. In modern WWE business

well no, it's evidently Cena in that role, and that's where a good portion, obviously not all, of the backlash comes from

[Fando]

 

[Lust Hogan]

For me I think part of the problem with the Make-A-Wish perception and John Cena is that they promote Cena as if he's the ONLY one doing these. I don't see WWE showing or talking too much about anyone outside of Cena with Make-A-Wish.

 

I guess the true problem is that WWE is SO heavy handed with everything it just rings false and makes you want to doubt it. Roman Reigns is cool? GREAT! We'll REALLY push him and show you HOW cool he is. John Cena helps kids? GREAT! We'll beat you over the head with it.

 

Now having said all that I think it's really cool that he takes the time to do that. It's got to be tough to do and not get emotionally attached.

[Loss]

That's one reason it always gets me when Dave criticizes Hogan or whoever for doing a media interview and not plugging the company they work for, the upcoming show, etc. Is someone really going to become a fan because they heard Hogan talking about it in an interview?

[Beast]

Not anymore.

[fakeplastictrees]

That's one reason it always gets me when Dave criticizes Hogan or whoever for doing a media interview and not plugging the company they work for, the upcoming show, etc. Is someone really going to become a fan because they heard Hogan talking about it in an interview?

 

Become a fan? Probably not. Have some interest- most likely. There have been tons of happenings in my life where I see something on TV, Youtube, whatever and I want to see/hear/know more. I am sure all of the guys on this forum at some point in time have seen a beautiful model on a billboard, in a magazine, on TV, etc. and wanted to know her name and see other photos of her, etc. I've always hated when Hogan didn't promote TNA while making all of these appearances on major new stations, radio shows, etc. and then Hogan/Bischoff would pretend that 100% of the time they were under some kind of contract that prevented them from talking about wrestling - more specifically TNA.

 

But let's get back to the topic at hand: WWE's charity work could come off a bit more genuine if they tone down the TV presence of the work. I guess (for lack of better wording at the moment), WWE just should run two 'best of' video packages a year detailing its charity work. One for the first 6 months and another for the final 6 months. So one in June and the other in Dec. Have it on the website, all WWE social media sites, and show the video (only once a night) during the dark periods before a show/during intermission. Also, WWE should really think about not bringing the cameras EVERYWHERE as it just comes off really cheap. The Bella Twins showing up in full makeup to hammer a few nails for a photo op and then leaving within an hour or arriving doesn't make anyone look good in the long term as people like myself can see right through it. John Cena doing the Make A Wish comes off as more genuine as he is tailoring his activity and it doesn't come off as 'I have to show up here, get some photos, shake a few hands, and then fucking go back to my mansion!'

 

SHOW Cena's Make-A-Wish stuff, but don't show The Bellas cosplaying Jimmy Carter and pretending to help construct a house/playground/whatever when in reality they hammered in 4 or 5 nails, took photos, posed with fans, looked at blueprints, and then left. Everything doesn't need to be documented. WWE likes to pretend its on the cutting edge of 21st century tech marketing without realizing that even still to this day there are things that became popular through viral means. I believe the charity work should be the same in some regards. Me randomly hearing about The Colons spending their off-schedule weekends helping out at the local soup kitchen means more than WWE setting up The Colons to work at a soup kitchen for an hour in order to get video footage for that night's episode of Raw.

 

Also, I hate to continue this, but I also hate the semi-deification of the wrestlers doing 'acts of charity'. Again, I get Cena spending time with a child and walking them backstage and stuff. I am fine with that. But Eva Marie showing up at a hospital to shake hands and take pictures with Vets is more of WWE being heavy on reducing the genuineness of the exposition and in some cases (in the video packages) go overboard using voice-overs to bring things to another level. So yeah, this goes hand-in-hand with cutting the fluff.

[MJH]

I'm not sure if there's a non-asshole way to put this but... isn't all charity work to some extent self-congratulatory? Or, rather, ego-boosting? I'm not saying it's the entire reason behind it (much like I'm sure Stephanie genuinely does care about helping children), but why else do people bring up volunteering at x, donating to y, if not to say, on a certain level, "look at me, I'm a good person!"? I'm hardly the most charitable guy in the world but I have a few monthly DDs to different charities (as with most people, for causes that have affected my family), but whilst I care for those causes, I'd be lying if I said I didn't take some satisfaction from going "well that's a pack of cigarettes gone to a better cause". Shit, that's how the door callers sell it to you.