Negro Casas vs Jushin Liger

[Grimmas]

These two have had insanely long great careers. They keep turning out great matches, no matter how old they get.

 

There can be cases for these two as a number one guy.

 

Who will be higher on your list and why?

[Childs]

I'll have Liger a lot higher, but I'll likely be a low voter on Casas among those who rank luchadores at all. I'm still waiting for my Casas epiphany. I have Liger around 15 right now--one of the best offensive wrestlers ever, brilliant seller when he wanted to focus on that, quite emotive for a masked guy, long list of great matches, at least a good worker for most of the last 30 years. If anything, I might be underrating him a little. I do think there were stretches when he went on autopilot and had technically good but uninteresting matches. Still, that's a pretty minor complaint when you look at his big heap of strengths.

[WingedEagle]

Really enjoy Casas and never come away from a match thinking he delivered a bad performance, but usually feel that I'm watching someone excelling at playing the role of professional wrestler rather than excellent wrestler. Undoubtedly a hitch that holds back a lot of lucha for me, which in watching footage over this time is something I've come to accept. Sometimes it clicks but more often it doesn't, even if I can appreciate the level of skill. There'll be times where on the right night (Dandy, Santo, certain tags) it feels as though I'm watching one of the best wrestlers ever. But far too often it feels like a staged performance.

 

That said he'll be one of the few luchadores I rank and don't imagine it'll be any kind of token ranking, but he won't sniff Liger territory.

[Loss]

I'll probably have Liger higher, but I can't say for sure. They make almost too perfect a comparison. As soon as I say I'll have Liger higher, I think about their respective careers and Casas seemed to peak way higher. I can't see them more than 1-2 spots apart from each other either way.

[joeg]

I've got Casas at 10 and Lyger at 14 right now. I wouldn't fault anybody for having either of them #1. People talk about Casas still cranking out good matches, but Lyger's is still putting out good matches in the BSOJs every year.

[ohtani's jacket]

Really enjoy Casas and never come away from a match thinking he delivered a bad performance, but usually feel that I'm watching someone excelling at playing the role of professional wrestler rather than excellent wrestler. Undoubtedly a hitch that holds back a lot of lucha for me, which in watching footage over this time is something I've come to accept. Sometimes it clicks but more often it doesn't, even if I can appreciate the level of skill. There'll be times where on the right night (Dandy, Santo, certain tags) it feels as though I'm watching one of the best wrestlers ever. But far too often it feels like a staged performance.

 

That said he'll be one of the few luchadores I rank and don't imagine it'll be any kind of token ranking, but he won't sniff Liger territory.

 

Maybe a bit of a cheeky comment, but it's amusing to me that a guy in an anime costume strikes you as more of a wrestler than a guy in black trunks.

 

Anyway, I'm the complete opposite. I think Liger has a ton of annoying tendencies and gets the same free ride that Panther does. All of the flaws people point out in juniors wrestling are inherent flaws in Liger as well yet people act as though he was great in spite of those shackles. That's when they'e not giving him praise for orchestrating the whole damn mess and being the architect of a style they think is flawed. Wrestlers basically fall into two categories for me -- guys who I want to watch everything they've ever done and guys I only want to watch if it's against the right opponent -- and Liger falls squarely into the second category. I love watching his matches against Ohtani, for example, but I don't have any interest in watching Liger carry anybody. I think he's a good worker, and I'm not beyond enjoying him, but Casas at his best was otherworldly. Santo vs. Liger is probably fairer comparison, or Rey vs. Liger, because of the mask, but 90s Casas, which is the only Casas I'm really connected to, was actually a pretty tight worker. I wish it was still on YouTube because I never got a chance to write about it, but he made a green Eddy Guerrero look a million bucks in Juarez through grappling not bumping and stooging. To me that's an excellent wrestler. I do love Liger's palm strikes, though. They're fantastic. He's overrated on the mat and I don't think his selling is as wonderful as others do. Great execution but iffy match structure at times. I would consider him top 50 material at best whereas Casas would be top 20.