Billy Goelz and other 50s finds

[shodate]

The best match I've seen the 50s has been Thesz/Gagne. The Thesz/Schmidt and Thesz/Rogers matches are MOTYC level. Maybe Gagne vs. Carpentier too.

this i agree with

[ohtani's jacket]

I've been watching some footage of Dick Shikat. What a wrestling specimen he was. I've said it before but he really was like a 1920s Horst Hoffman. There are outtakes of a grappling exhibition he did for some newsreel that showcase his beautiful technique. His matches seemed heated as well so it appears that he had a good sense of how to work the crowd. A fine wrestler if ever I saw one.

[fxnj]

I was really impressed by Dick Shikat when I was going through the 20's and 30's footage. Always struck me as weird that he wasn't in the WON HOF.

[ohtani's jacket]

It's hard to judge from short clips, but judging by the footage we have, Gus Sonnenberg doesn't strike me as anything special.

[ohtani's jacket]

Watched a couple of matches of the amazing hypnotist and wrestler, Dr. Lee Grable.

The first match was a short match against JTTB and journeyman, Ivan the Terrible, which didn't tell us a heck of a lot about Grable.

The second was a long main event tag match with Grable and Sandor Szabo vs. John Tolos and Hans Schnabel. On paper, it looked like it might be a bit vanilla but it ended up being fairly solid. Grable was the smallest man in the match but worked with a ton of fire and had some great forearm smash spots and energetic work off the ropes. The bout was a good chance to check out a young and handsome John Tolos years before the Blassie feud and a pretty decent look at Szabo too, whose suplex hold was heavily featured. I appreciated the steady commentary of Bill Welsh, who took the time to explain between falls the mechanics of the suplex, Szabo's background in wrestling and how the Szabo/Grable team came to be. There were some neat post-match interviews too where Schnabel (who sounded more like a longshoreman than a German heel) slyly explained that the suplex is, in fact, a chokehold or stranglehold, and another from the babyface team where Szabo expounded on some wrestling philosophy explaining the differences between tag wrestling and singles matches. I can't remember being overly sold on Szabo before but listening to him speak I began to like the idea of a Hungarian Greco-Roman wrestler coming to the States to work the catch-as-can style and his suplex was nice, especially the one on the larger Schnabel. Tolos was good in his role as a young heel and Schnabel was solid as the wise old head in the corner giving him instructions. Pretty decent look at everybody and a good match to boot.

[ohtani's jacket]

Worked my way through the available footage from 1930. Most of it is newsreel clips of the finish. The standard finish to a bout in 1930 was guys throwing each other, and knocking each other off their feet as many times as they could, to ear their man down for the body press. Some of the finishes were wilder and rougher than others but that was the general gist. The finish could come after an hour or more of wrestling, though, so the real gems from the 1930 footage are the longer clips of Gus Sonnenberg vs. Count Zarynoff and Shikat vs. Londos which show you what the body of the bout looked like. There wasn't a lot of matwork shown presumably because the men filming the bouts wanted to save their film for the standup portions which promised to be more exciting. There was a strong emphasis on the tie-up in 1930. We're used to seeing a tie-up or a lock-up to stand a bout but they constantly returned to it in the early 30s as a means of throwing their opponent and further weakening him. There were a lot of cool escapes to avoid being thrown and a lot of cool work leading to the tie-up especially in Londos/Shikat where they kept giving each other shots to the face and head before the tie-up. I also noticed quite a lot of European flair from workers like Count Zarynoff which was cool to see.

Also, I must add that Paul Boesch commentating over home videos of himself wrestling in the 30s is one of the treats in the 1930 collection.

[ohtani's jacket]

A few bits and bobs...

Black Guzman vs. Mike Sharpe was a match from the Los Angeles territory's Wrestling Stars of the 60s show. Guzman was the brother of El Santo and one of the pioneers of the fast-paced aerial style that most people associate lucha with. He was also a successful headliner in the Texas territory in the 40s and 50s. He was well past his prime in this footage but looked like a feisty customer. Sharpe was one half of the Sharpe Brothers tag team whom most people are familiar with from their work in Japan against Rikidozan. The match was a short affair built around the size difference between Sharpe and Guzman. You can pretty much imagine how the bout went. I usually like Jules Strongbow but he kept annoying me with the bullshit he span about Guzman being a former matador. He even made up some bullshit story about how a bull gorged Guzman's leg and forced him to retire. Creative liberties I guess but it added to a certain staleness about the TV product from the 60s. When you watch this stuff it really does feel like there was a downturn in wrestling after the popularity it enjoyed in the 50s.

Sonny Myers vs. Rudy Kay is a short bout from Chicago. The only notable thing about it is how much Russ Davis loves Rudy Kay. It seems like Kay was one of his favorite performers for some reason or another. He always gets excited when he commentates a Kay bout. 

Bobo Brazil vs. Duke Keomuka was the first time I've been able to get a handle on Keomuka. He was your typical stereotypical Japanese heel. Bobo Brazil is Bobo Brazil. Pretty much writes itself. Buffalo continues to be an uninteresting territory and 60s wrestling continues to be a massive step down from the peak 50s stuff. I wonder what the best US territory was in the 60s. 

[gordi]

1 hour ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I wonder what the best US territory was in the 60s. 

 

Is there much (any?) footage from St. Louis in the 1960s? Sam Muchnick had a great rep as early as the 1960 for being a guy who treated wrestlers fairly and paid well. Fridays at the Kiel Auditorium generally meant 7000 to 9000 paying fans. So you had some big matches taking place there, like January 7, 1966  when Gene Kiniski defeated Lou Thesz to end Thesz’s last NWA title reign and take the belt.

[ohtani's jacket]

A new Lord James Blears match has surfaced pitting Dave Levin Blears against Tony Morelli and Angelo Cistoldi. It's a tag match so there's not much in the way of technical wrestling. Blears does a decent job as a fired up babyface brawler but that's not really a role that you want to see Blears in any more than you'd want to see Steve Regal do the same thing in 1993, to make an obvious comparison.

Also uploaded recently is an interesting Antonio Rocca showcase against Brother Frank Jares. This is filmed and edited to be pretty much all Rocca but they certainly made Rocca's offense seem cool. Jares bumps for Rocca well and they ramp up the sound effects to make the hits sound nastier. Better than most Rocca bouts even if it does come across as staged.

Little Beaver vs. irish Jackie is your typical midgets match. Some stooging, a bit of comedy, the occasional flurry of activity. It's tailormade for the audience and gets a good reaction. Beaver looked good when he went on the offensive.

Dick the Bruiser vs. Bil Melby is a solid affair. I'm pretty convinced that early Afflis is the best possible version of Dick the Bruiser. The only thing that would convince me otherwise is if he had a really hot feud somewhere. The bout doesn't really go anywhere since the ref has to constantly break things up, but you shouldn't expect anything different from a Dick the Bruiser bout.

I enjoyed Johnny Kace vs. George Kramer. Kace was a Mid-West star who reminded me of Dick Murdoch. Kramer was your average blue-eyed technician. Together they put on an enjoyable bout trying to outfox each other. From the sounds of things, Kace gave Kramer a bit more than he usually did on his television appearances. The reason I plow through this stuff is to find good workers like Kace so I enjoyed this gem.

Lastly, a few clips of Ricki Starr doing his act, a worker from the 30s named Joe Savoldi, and some footage of Londos. I'm not sure if I've seen the Londos footage before (it's hard to remember which clips you've seen when it's bits and pieces of a bout), but he's one of the all-time greats as far as I'm concerned. 

[ohtani's jacket]

I found a few more Kace matches online.

The first was a title defense against Jim Hady. Kace worked from underneath and showed a lot of ass, so I guess the information that the commentator gave me in the Kramer bout wasn't very reliable. Even though he worked from below, he was extremely active and left a big imprint on the bout. It was a nice minor league touring champ performance. This match was also notable for Fred Kohler appearing on camera. Finally, we got to see what the old boy looked like. 

Next up was a TV bout from the WWA territory. This was from the late 60s and Kace was a journeyman at this stage. He took on Blackjack Lanza in a bout that was really only notable for a young Bobby Heenan being in Lanza's corner, and boy did Bobby have amazing hair, but Kace had a firm grasp of his role and delivered a solid performance against a guy who wasn't all that sharp in the ring.

The last match was a mauling from Bobo Brazil. It's not that uncommon to see Bobo dominate and give little or nothing to his opponent but I was impressed with the way Kace sold. He had a ton of cool tricks and was constantly moving and trying something. Even though Bobo wiped the canvas with him, this cemented his position as a quality performer as he managed to make Bobo's holds interesting. I knew there was a little Dick Murdoch to this guy and he proved it here.  

[ohtani's jacket]

From the Chicago Archives:

Ned Taylor vs. Rafael Alvarez is short but full of niggle. I liked it a lot. Taylor was an older wrestler who looked like the lovechild of Verne Gagne and Dory Funk, Jr. Alvarez was a young Puerto Rican wrestler. Really good filler match.

Tiger Jack Moore vs. Don Leo Jonathan was Jonathan's TV debut in the Chicago territory. He was obviously a huge physical specimen and had surprisingly long hair for the 50s. He was a bit loose in the ring but enjoyed his television debut immensely with plenty of showboating.

Following those two bouts were some long ass tag team bouts: El Hombre Montana & Ramone Cernades vs Al Williams and Rudy Kay and El Hombre Montana & Ramone Cernades vs The Schnabel Brothers (Hans & Fritz). I can only speak for myself, but 50s tag wrestling isn't very interesting. It's quite possibly the most generic pro-wrestling I can think of. Others may disagree. If you like journeymen wrestlers loafing their way through a 30-minute bout you may like these. I know I'm in trouble when the bout needs to be carried by Russ Davis and he's pretending he's way up in the bleachers instead of sitting at ringside. The dub overs of silent footage make these even more painful to watch. 

Onwards and upwards.

[ohtani's jacket]

Continuing with Chicago:

Angelo Poffo vs. Bobby Managoff was a decent watch. It was full of generic 50s holds, niggle from Poffo, and the crowd taking delight in Managoff retaliating, but it was well done and Poffo & Managoff were a good match-up for each other. Poffo was clearly a good worker and drew heat but he lacked that extra something to catapult him to the heights of professional wrestling. 

Dick the Bruiser vs. Chest Bernard was a decent strength vs. strength bout. Bruiser's early stuff where he's trying to overpower opponents with brute strength is better than his brawling shtick. From the same card was Rudy Kay vs. Jack Bauer. Regardless of what you might think of older journeymen like Kay, the crowd loved him and kept cracking jokes at his expense. He isn't the charismatic journeyman type that you see in lucha or WoS, but he had the same effect on the crowd, and the commentator considering he's one of Pappy Davis' favourites.

Lastly, Bozo Brown vs. Johnny Balbo was a showcase for fat boy wrestler Brown. Entertaining bout in the grand tradition of fat boy wrestling. 

[ohtani's jacket]

On paper, Chief Lone Eagle vs. Great Jojo looked like it would be bad. I mean you had a Native American gimmick against a fat Mexican worker with Russ Davis doing his stupid voices. But I'll be damned if these guys didn't mean business. It's just a shame that Russ Davis is such a despicable commentator. This match ended with probably the worst thing I've heard him say -- "Chief Long Eagle is going home with his drum and his squaw, and he'll probably beat them both." WTF, Russ Davis?

Gypsy Joe vs. Leon Kirilenko wasn't the famous Gypsy Joe. This guy had a wild Ron Jeremy look that seemed out of keeping with the 1950s. It reminded me of Baron Michele Leone. These guys tumbled about for a bit but didn't have a license to really get going. 

Tiny York vs. Johnny Gilbert was two fresh-faced preliminary workers trying to make some sort of name for themselves in the territory. For some reason, Davis shat all over them. It didn't seem like a bad match to me, not compared to some of the shit Davis had commentated over previously (with glee, I might add), but cranky old Pappy went as far as to say it was a match he wasn't proud of. Way to put over the new talent, Paps. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Baron Arena vs. Sonny Myers... Baron Arena was an interesting guy. He claimed to be the original Gorgeous George but had to stop using the name after Wagner filed a lawsuit against him. That didn't stop him from claiming to be Gorgeous George, though. The tales only got taller as he aged. They must have worked as well as some of the papers got him confused with Wagner when he died. It looked like he was pinching Baron Michele Leone's gimmick here, but I guess I say that about every guy with terrific hair. Myers was a young guy they were trying to get over. His finisher was an atomic drop. For some reason, I find that charming. I saw him against a fella named Kostas Davelis as well. Now with a name like Kostas Davelis, you'd think I made my latest and greatest find, but it wasn't meant to be. It was the same formula as the Arena match. Real half-hearted veteran vs. youngster shtick.

Bob Geigel vs. Buck Weaver, on the other hand, how had I not seen this earlier!? Everyone knows Geigel as a promoter but he looked like a hell of a worker as well. This was one of the best 50s matches I've seen in a while. They were light weights so they only got about 10 minutes. I could have watched them trade holds for another 30 minutes, but they packed so much great shit into their bout that I couldn't help but come away impressed. I loved the finish. I think it was botched but it was botched in a way that felt violent and organic. It was a real "holy shit!" moment for me. This is on of my short list of 50s matches worth watching. 

[ohtani's jacket]

So, I watched a Bob Geigel studio match from the 60s where Geigel was torturing a guy named Johnny Ramirez with digit manipulation, and busting open his nose. The wrestling world needs more Bob Geigel matches.

When I saw the listing for Yulie Brynner vs. Rose Roman, I thought Brynner was a cute ring name. Then she took the towel off her head and was completely bald. As you can imagine, much of the bout was about Roman not being able to get a handful of hair. I don't think Brynner was around for long. There don't seem to be too many match records anywhere. Who would have thought her work would live again one day on YouTube?

The Mighty Atlas vs. Red Bastien was better than the average Mighty Atlas bout, I suppose, but still a Mighty Atlas bout. 

After watching a couple of Bob Orton matches -- against Harry Lewis and Billy Hickson -- I have come to the conclusion that Orton was decent at dishing out a beating, and sold well when the other guy retaliated, but was completely unremarkable otherwise. Now I know that will come as a surprise to you that an Orton could be unremarkable, but it's true. The Hickson match was a catch weight bout and had some interesting parts, but Orton is not one of the stars of the 50s for my mind. 

[ohtani's jacket]

The Sheik of Araby vs. Harry Lewis... Everyone was young once, but they doesn't mean they were good. That's a bit harsh maybe, but watching the Sheik grapple isn't exactly thrilling. 

I got bored of Chicago and decided to watch a couple of Rikidozan fights. I watched the Rikidozan/Kimura shoot. I'd actually never seen it before. Like most shoots, it wasn't that interesting until the ending where Rikidozan unleashed on Kimura and knocked him out. Quite a surreal finish to a wrestling bout. Rikidozan vs. Don Leo Jonathan. This surprised me a lot. Jonathan was an incredible physical specimen, but I wasn't expecting him to be such a good match-up for Rikidozan. Basically, the only interesting parts of a Rikidozan fight are when he's striking his opponent. Jonathan not only brought great looking strikes to the bout, he sold extremely well for Rikidozan's blows. We've all heard the stories about what a good big man Don Leo Jonathan was, but this was the first time that I saw the proof. 

Cowboy Carlson vs. Vincent Lopez -- this was a total surprise. Carlson wore jean shorts and cowboy boots (if you can believe it) while Lopez was a middle-aged, irritable version of a worker whom I had previously seen in his prime during the 1930s. Together, they put on one of my favorite matches in the entire Chicago Film Archive collection. Just a really great, stiff brawl that was chock full of action and didn't outstay its welcome. So many matches tried to be like this in the 50s but few succeeded as well as this one did.  

[gordi]

I've got nothing to contribute, discussion-wise, but I wanted to say how much I'm enjoying this, the French catch thread, and the 70s NJPW thread. It's fascinating to read and learn about so much stuff that I have never seen. I appreciate you taking the time to write all this up. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Fritz von Schacht vs. Farmer Don Marlin was another pleasant surprise. Marlin is a barefoot yokel who gets hoppin' mad a lot and has an interesting grappling stance he calls his "mole style of wrestling." Schacht is a German. As you can imagine, there's a lot of hillbilly talk from Davis and a bad German accent, but ignoring Davis' wit, the bout is an exciting brawl. Much better than I was expecting from yokel and a poor man's Fritz von Erich. 

Also entertaining was Legs Langevin vs. Bobby Managoff. I've seen Legs before in matches against stars like Pat O'Connor and Edouard Carpentier but this was the first time to see him in a match that showcased his comedy heel act. It was a lot of fun and something I wouldn't mind seeing again.

Not so fun was Cora Combs vs. Lorraine Johnson. I've seen a lot of good women's wrestling from the 50s but this was dull as dishwater.

I also found a few clips of Hans Schmidt in the Buffalo territory, but Buffalo matches are always boring. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Ivan Rasputin, Chest Bernard & Fritz Von Schacht vs. Don Beitelman, Farmer Don Marlin & Pat O'Connor... I'm pretty sure I've seen this before but there were enough characters in it to entice me to watch it again. As you can imagine, a 6 man tag was quite the spectacle in 50s. This didn't have the rhythm of a great three-act trios match, but it did have a pretty great rudo lineup. Fritz Von Schacht is starting to grow on me as one of the better German heels of the era (although he doesn't really work a Nazi heel gimmick as such), and Rasputin is always good. Marlin and Von Schacht showed the same chemistry from their singles match, but the bulk of the match seemed to feature Pat O'Connor, or as Davies kept calling him, "Bud" O'Connor. I'm always kind of secretly proud to see a Kiwi on the big stage. Davies clearly knew nothing about New Zealand. At first he confused it with Australia and then it kept drawing comparisons to European wrestling. He seemed to naturally assume that New Zealanders were hot blooded and would lose their temper easily. O'Connor is the splitting imagine of some of the 50s New Zealand rugby greats, many of whom were farmers. They were more than happy to dish it out on the field and have a beer afterward and that was the vibe I got from O'Connor here. The match itself was messy, but there were enough high points to satisfy. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Hans Schmidt vs. Ray Gunkel... Apparently, you can sponsor the Chicago Film Archives to release any of the footage they haven't uploaded. I don't know how much it costs, but some dude wanted to see more Ray Gunkel after watching the Thesz match that aired on The Network. Gunkel vs. Schmidt seems like a great find, but unfortunately it's a film clip with no sound that only covers the first fall. Disappointing in the extreme.

Ray Stevens vs. Al Fredericks from Australia, 1969... I don't know how rare or important this is, but at least it was a chance to see Ray Stevens look a little closer to the Ric Flair inspiration that he was always touted as. To be honest, he kind of looks like the love child between Dick Murdoch and Ric Flair, but he's entertaining. Fredericks is apparently Paul Jones. He's pretty good in the fiesty babyface role. Stevens cuts a nice promo afterward. 

[Matt D]

3 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Hans Schmidt vs. Ray Gunkel... Apparently, you can sponsor the Chicago Film Archives to release any of the footage they haven't uploaded. I don't know how much it costs, but some dude wanted to see more Ray Gunkel after watching the Thesz match that aired on The Network. Gunkel vs. Schmidt seems like a great find, but unfortunately it's a film clip with no sound that only covers the first fall. Disappointing in the extreme.

Where did this end up? And how do we learn more.

[Ricky Jackson]

Yeah, count me interested 

[peachchaos]

Is there a list somewhere of the footage they haven't uploaded yet?

[ohtani's jacket]

This is the only info I could find -- http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=004666

[Matt D]

So the 27 minute Thesz vs Ruffy Silverstein match they posted an hour after the Gunkel match doesn't have any thanks/name attributed to it. I wonder if once they digitized one, they just kept going?