Between the Sheets #58 (August 24-30, 2005)

[KrisZ]

 

Kris & David are guestless this week talking about the week that was August 24-30, 2005. We talk about the wackiness of Wrestle Reunion and how the WWE was treating the Dudleyz, PRIDE at their peak in Japan and the United States, Antonio Pena’s health going down, CIMA & Shingo Takagi debuting in ROH, the difference of OVW under Heyman compared to Cornette, TNA going to Spike and how WWE was caught in the crossfire. This is long but interesting show!

 

0:00:00 WrestleReunion
0:59:20 MMA: Pride & UFC
1:12:35 Japan: AJPW, NJPW, Noah, Zero-One, BJPW, DDT, Futen, Pancrase, & LLPW
1:53:39 Europe: IWA Switzerland & UK News
2:03:31 The Amazon Game
2:28:56 Latin America: AAA, CMLL, IWRG, Monterrey, IWA Puerto Rico, & WWC
2:53:11 U.S. Indies: ROH, IWC, OVW, TNA, & Potpourri
3:41:21 WWE

 

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http://placetobenation.com/between-the-sheets-58-august-24-30-2005/

[kbenn123]

Great show as usual. Haven't listened to the entire thing, but great start so far. Just a heads up...King of Prussia is outside of Philadelphia and not Pittsburgh. I remember this Wrestlereunion show in 2005 as I grew up in Hamburg, PA (where the old WWWF All Star Tapings occurred), and there were several old-times who were kind of excited with the appearance of Bruno in the area. My grandparents, in particular, loved Bruno, and always hated Zbyszko. I remember growing up and watching WCW, and whenever Zbyszko appeared as a commentator on the syndicated shows, they would comment on how he was a traitor and bad person because he betrayed Sammartino.

[KrisZ]

Yeah there are a lot of mishaps on my part on this show I'm sure

[The Chief]

Is OVW TV under Heyman any good or is that just urban legend? I've watched some random OVWs and for the most part I find it to be pretty bad. DSW and FCW too for that matter.

[KrisZ]

OVW was never the same after Cornette left......the Heyman years had it's moments but it was like watered down ECW

[El Boricua]

Heard the El Boricua signal, Bryan is this guy:

 

http://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=2751

 

You may have seen him teaming up with Eric Escobar in AAA a couple of years ago. He started out in IWA as part of the Lucha Libre 101 stable with Eric Alexander (aka Eric Escobar), Chicano and Abbad. His name back then was Bryan Madness. He would eventually bounce between both companies and other local feds as an upper midcarder from the mid-00's onwards. Better known as "La Amenaza" Bryan.

 

I'd say there is no one factor that allowed IWA to jump ahead of WWC, but two major factors where that it was not the tired same old stuff WWC was throwing out, and it definitely did not hurt initially to have some WWF involvement during the Attitude era period where it was hot. If I'm remembering correctly, the first eventual major jumps from WWC would be Glamour Boy Shane and then Chicky Starr and Victor the Bodyguard. Ray Gonzales' jump was definitely huge when it happened. It was the moment where you knew WWC was up crap creek. Heck, the legal fallout from the jump is what led him having to wrestle as the masked El Rey Fenix when he first arrived even though everyone knew who it was. I've said it before, but even now I'm still amazed it was IWA that folded and WWC is still around. If you went back to that time period and said it would be WWC surviving you would have been laughed out of the room.

[KrisZ]

YES Boricua always comes through in the clutch

[The Chief]

Bix, Tomko was on his own for a few months after Christian went to TNA. He formed a short lived team with Snitsky and was doing a gimmick where he knocked out jobbers with a big boot. AFAIK Tomko requested his release in early 2006, I don't believe it was a WWE decision.

[SomethingSavage]

OVW under Heyman looks rough around the edges, especially when viewed through a modern lens - but it was still pretty refreshing and stellar stuff at the time. There were elements of what made ECW unique in there, with a strong emphasis & focus on character development. Heyman highlighted several guys and helped to shape unique traits within most of them. Everyone played a part. The shows moved at a brisk pace. Things felt progressive and purposeful. Of course, underneath all that, a lot of these guys were still fairly green and learning on the job.

 

But yeah. The Albright/Punk feud was basic, fundamental stuff. And it worked. Making the leather strap the main staple and theme of their rivalry for a long time showed what kind of storyteller Punk could be - which (you'd think) would have painted him in a favorable light. WWE main event style is all about that sort of stuff.

 

A guy like Anderson was given the stage to showcase what he could do. It's easy to bash the guy these days, but for awhile there - he seemed to show real promise. The guy had an air of confidence and swagger around him REALLY early on. I don't think it's a reach to say that - at the very least - he could have faked it 'til he made it. Even if he was clearly lacking in certain areas, he knew enough to carry himself like a star. His bark was SO MUCH stronger than his bite, and it created an illusion of excitement that made you buy into the act. The guy legitimately looked like he could be a big star for awhile there.

 

Even if they were clearly playing for comedy, silly acts like the Spirit Squad were actually shown to be menacing when it mattered. They were never given the same edge or bite on the main stage.

 

There were still some stinkers. The idea of the Dick Bombers as a top-tier tag team and a heavy dose of poorly produced backstage skits - with too much Armando Estrada - spring to mind. But airhead Maria was in its infancy there, and at least that was fun.

 

Overall, I think it was a breath of fresh air to see the developmental league actually pushing boundaries a bit and exploring new ground. At least, that's what it felt like. Rather than just being a cheap copy of the characters and the work you'd see on the main shows, they seemed open to doing their own thing for a bit. It felt like the first wave of that, even if it didn't last long and ultimately ended with them shifting up the entire developmental landscape yet again.

[The Chief]

SomethingSavage, I'd like to hear more about this era. I do remember hearing people whose opinions I trust praising this stuff at the time, I just haven't seen it but I may not be looking in the right places. Are there any particular episodes/matches/angles I should check out from this time frame?

[SomethingSavage]

The stuff is fairly hard to find, unfortunately. I downloaded a batch of episodes a few years ago - around 2012, I believe - and haven't found much of anything new ever since. It's rough. But the episodes I have in full are tremendous. Like I said, there are some silly "entertainment" segments with Estrada, the Boogeyman popping up, and Maria doing her airhead shtick. It's the sort of stuff that feels like Heyman's following marching orders and aping what "they want" on television, but I don't know. It just feels out of place among the other stuff he's doing with OVW television at the time.

 

As mentioned, the Punk and Albright series is worth checking out in its entirety. The feud as a whole is truly a saga on its own. It starts over something as simple as a handshake, with Punk not wanting to give Albright any respect. It's an issue stemming out of a deep disrespect and dishonor. From there, the leather strap comes into play and Punk sort of works an extension of his ROH character - bringing up references to his childhood and indicating discipline from his inebriated father at times. It's compelling stuff.

 

There's a point in the program where fans basically just side with Punk, even though he's initially the least likable guy and clearly going for a heel slant. The people just don't buy in, and I'm fairly convinced THAT is where the flip switched in Heyman's mind & he started to see the real value in Punk as a performer. Maybe I'm totally off the mark about that, but I don't know. You can see the steam pick up in Punk afterwards - both in his work AND in the push behind him.

 

The whole story comes full circle by the end, which is what makes it so entirely satisfying. Both characters undergo changes and growing pains. There's a double-turn involved, wherein Punk becomes the babyface of the people & Albright becomes outraged by the constant disrespect from Punk. Appropriately enough, it all leads to a strap match - using Albright's "grandfather's old strap" - I mean, come on. How fucking cool is that little touch? Plus the tale all eventually rounds back out to the handshake. I won't give away the finish to their final encounter, but it's pretty brilliant and perfectly fitting for the story they were telling the WHOLE time.

 

Punk also has some fun moments and skits with the Spirit Squad, who aren't treated ENTIRELY like a joke. They're still aiming for laughs and humor, but Heyman uses the numbers advantage to book them like a threat in certain situations. For example, they'd swarm the ring from all four sides and trap their victims. It's booked as their signature - to the point where they eventually try it with Punk, but Brent Albright (of all people) comes to Punk's aid to fight the Squad off for a change. And it's treated like this MAJOR moment, all because of the groundwork they'd laid with the Squad successfully chewing up guys before. It feels like a genuine BIG freaking deal for the pairing of Punk and Albright. So there's neat stuff like that, too.

The tag team rivalry with Cody Rhodes & Shawn Spears versus Deuce & Domino is fucking aces also. Similar to the Punk and Albright program, it takes plenty of twists and turns to keep the rematches fresh and interesting. Cherry is involved in a way that keeps you guessing. I remember finding the whole story surprisingly enjoyable the first time I watched it.

 

Too often, the conclusion to rivalries like these in wrestling doesn't pack as much of a punch as you'd want - due to the nature of things needing to ALWAYS just... drag on. The story never stops, and so things just kind of fall off or dwindle down, rather than receive a proper payoff. But you really get the sense that Heyman tried to put a stamp of finality on the majority of his angles and programs. So there are actually a few satisfying conclusions to be found. That's what I mean when I say the TV feels purposeful and progressive. Rather than tireless matches on top of matches, you get a real sense that there's direction with a goal in mind for everything.

 

Ken Anderson, in this environment, simply stands out. The guy looked, walked, talked, and behaved like a superstar on the rise. It's absolutely easy to see why anybody would buy into him around this point. He was unique among the rest of that roster, for sure. He mixes it up with Punk briefly, but - mainly in the footage I have - he's being utilized as a mouthpiece in some attempt to help project Daniel fucking Puder get over.

 

Oh. And Damien Sandow is around as Aaron Stevens, doing what could now be compared to an Adam Rose gimmick. He's going for some sort of exotic, acid-dropping pimp deal. It's unreal. And he's flanked with half-naked chicks for a month or so. I can recall him coming to ringside for interviews and stuff, and he's got chicks - practically spilling out of their tops, naturally - on each arm every time. It's glorious, and I'm sad he never saw a bigger stage with that act - even if just for a fleeting moment.

 

I'm drawing a blank after that. I've got a few months of episodes on a hard drive SOMEWHERE around the house, and I really need to dig the thing out and revisit some of the stuff. It's been awhile since I saw any of it.

[BigBadMick]

Come on - don't leave a man wondering....

 

What's so objectionable about Johnny Weaver?

[KrisZ]

He wasn't that bad....just boring in ways...

[PeteF3]

I haven't gotten to this yet for context, but wasn't he allegedly a domestic abuser when married to Penny Banner?

[KrisZ]

In real life yes.....he was not a good man

[GSR]

 

 

Oh. And Damien Sandow is around as Aaron Stevens, doing what could now be compared to an Adam Rose gimmick. He's going for some sort of exotic, acid-dropping pimp deal. It's unreal. And he's flanked with half-naked chicks for a month or so. I can recall him coming to ringside for interviews and stuff, and he's got chicks - practically spilling out of their tops, naturally - on each arm every time. It's glorious, and I'm sad he never saw a bigger stage with that act - even if just for a fleeting moment.

 

Wasn't this Beth Phoenix and Shelly Martinez? It was strange seeing Phoenix especially playing this role when you consider it was a million miles from her WWE character on the main roster.

 

Heath Slater is another that goes back to the Deep South days. I used to get copies of their TV regularly and generally enjoyed it. Mike Knox was much better here than he ever was in the WWE and I also thought Derrick Neikirk deserved better. Shantelle Taylor and the tag team of Mike Taylor & Tony Santorelli are the standouts that I thought should've been bought up but never were. Shantelle Taylor very briefly played a masked male wrestler in dark matches and WWE house shows but the gimmick went no further than that.

[Bix]

I haven't gotten to this yet for context, but wasn't he allegedly a domestic abuser when married to Penny Banner?

 

Yes, that's what I was talking about.

[SomethingSavage]

 

Oh. And Damien Sandow is around as Aaron Stevens, doing what could now be compared to an Adam Rose gimmick. He's going for some sort of exotic, acid-dropping pimp deal. It's unreal. And he's flanked with half-naked chicks for a month or so. I can recall him coming to ringside for interviews and stuff, and he's got chicks - practically spilling out of their tops, naturally - on each arm every time. It's glorious, and I'm sad he never saw a bigger stage with that act - even if just for a fleeting moment.

 

Wasn't this Beth Phoenix and Shelly Martinez? It was strange seeing Phoenix especially playing this role when you consider it was a million miles from her WWE character on the main roster.

 

Bingo. Shelly was showing A LOT of skin and rocking miniskirts a'plenty for the part, too.

 

Found a little clip (and match) featuring part of their entrance and a quick promo.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIpoqYpw9h0

 

I completely forgot he was doing the whole "Sugar and Spice" deal with his two side-chicks, too. Seems like something they would have swiped and at least experimented with a bit on the main roster - especially when they went overboard with the sex and sleaze shit, before making the switch to PG, in the mid-2000s there.