People's perception of wrestler's sizes.

[Grimmas]

If people could stop body shaming in this thread, that would be greatly appreciated.

[sek69]

Could it be that Bubba was brought in to help with some of the backstage stuff Kevin Kelly used to do? Like others said, I don't really see him being used as a top level guy, but as an office guy/part timer/maybe mouthpiece for some of the youngsters might not be the worst use of him.

[Grimmas]

Could it be that Bubba was brought in to help with some of the backstage stuff Kevin Kelly used to do? Like others said, I don't really see him being used as a top level guy, but as an office guy/part timer/maybe mouthpiece for some of the youngsters might not be the worst use of him.

Very possible. He did help with business and booking in ECW. He did run some kind of training business, didn't he? I think I heard he helped with TNA creative as well, but not sure about that.

[stro]

If people could stop body shaming in this thread, that would be greatly appreciated.

You seem to think even acknowledging the appearance of another person is automatically body shaming, though. Saying someone is skinny or overweight is not inherently shaming. So what you're really asking is to not discuss the physical appearance of any wrestler in this thread.

[rzombie1988]

If people could stop body shaming in this thread, that would be greatly appreciated.

How you look is a big part of being a wrestler. One of the more important things along with in-ring work, charisma, mic skills and character/gimmick.

[WingedEagle]

Aesthetics are unquestionably a part of professional wrestling. There are many other factors that drive opportunity and success, but it seems odd to discount or ignore any one factor -- whether it be appearance, various qualities in the ring, charisma, mic work and other intangibles. Perhaps it'd be preferable if we could say that only certain factors were relevant, but its just not that simple.

[Grimmas]

 

If people could stop body shaming in this thread, that would be greatly appreciated.

You seem to think even acknowledging the appearance of another person is automatically body shaming, though. Saying someone is skinny or overweight is not inherently shaming. So what you're really asking is to not discuss the physical appearance of any wrestler in this thread.

 

It's the context. Also, like I stated a thousand times, what does overweight even mean? You have no idea what an individual's ideal weight is, so how do you know they are over or under weight.

 

Yeah, actually it would be great if you could stop talking about wrestler's physical appearance. There is context that it's fine, like how it works towards their character or whatever. However that majority of the time it's just pointless stuff that adds to the major issue in society about weight, bodies, body shaming, eating disorders, etc..

[Grimmas]

Aesthetics are unquestionably a part of professional wrestling. There are many other factors that drive opportunity and success, but it seems odd to discount or ignore any one factor -- whether it be appearance, various qualities in the ring, charisma, mic work and other intangibles. Perhaps it'd be preferable if we could say that only certain factors were relevant, but its just not that simple.

 

 

If people could stop body shaming in this thread, that would be greatly appreciated.

How you look is a big part of being a wrestler. One of the more important things along with in-ring work, charisma, mic skills and character/gimmick.

 

Is it? If so why?

 

Is it important in UFC?

 

Somebodies body doesn't matter to me when it comes to them as a wrestler, why would it?

[goc]

Size isn't important in the UFC because they have weight classes that will keep ridiculous size disparities from happening unlike wrestling where every time I see people say Finn Balor needs to wrestle The Undertaker at Mania I just roll my eyes because he's 100 lbs lighter and a foot shorter and it would look ridiculous.

[Grimmas]

Size isn't important in the UFC because they have weight classes that will keep ridiculous size disparities from happening unlike wrestling where every time I see people say Finn Balor needs to wrestle The Undertaker at Mania I just roll my eyes because he's 100 lbs lighter and a foot shorter and it would look ridiculous.

Here you are talking about height. I have no issues with that, nor does anybody else. Talk about height all you want. See how you can have a discussion without any body shaming there. It's not that hard.

[sek69]

 

Could it be that Bubba was brought in to help with some of the backstage stuff Kevin Kelly used to do? Like others said, I don't really see him being used as a top level guy, but as an office guy/part timer/maybe mouthpiece for some of the youngsters might not be the worst use of him.

Very possible. He did help with business and booking in ECW. He did run some kind of training business, didn't he? I think I heard he helped with TNA creative as well, but not sure about that.

 

 

Him and D-Von ran (are still running?) a wrestling school, and I'm pretty sure he was doing a lot of the creative during his TNA run everyone loved. If ROH's office is as much of a mess as it seems, he could be a good asset to fix things as long as he can avoid having a Twitter meltdown.

[stro]

OF COURSE looks are important in UFC. You think Page Van Zant and Sage Northcutt got the promotion they got because of their skills? Do you really think UFC cards are based on talent and win/loss records as opposed to marketability? There's a reason why Ronda Rousey got the super media push she got as opposed to a fighter like Cyborg or Amanda Nunes. There's a reason why Mighty Mouse might be the P4P best fighter in UFC for years, yet people aren't interested at all in buying his fights.

 

Go to any MMA board and look at how guys that get off steroids or TRT are savaged for how they look afterwards. It's very important to MMA companies and MMA fans as well. Just because someone's body doesn't matter to YOU doesn't mean it doesn't matter to OTHER PEOPLE, and constantly nagging them to think like you isn't going to change dick.

[goc]

 

Size isn't important in the UFC because they have weight classes that will keep ridiculous size disparities from happening unlike wrestling where every time I see people say Finn Balor needs to wrestle The Undertaker at Mania I just roll my eyes because he's 100 lbs lighter and a foot shorter and it would look ridiculous.

Here you are talking about height. I have no issues with that, nor does anybody else. Talk about height all you want. See how you can have a discussion without any body shaming there. It's not that hard.

 

I also said he's 100 pounds lighter and that's just as important as the height difference. It DOES matter. Zack Sabre Jr's deal of dominating people with technical wrestling doesn't work if the guy he's wrestling is a lot heavier and looks strong enough to just force his way out of holds.

[rzombie1988]

 

Aesthetics are unquestionably a part of professional wrestling. There are many other factors that drive opportunity and success, but it seems odd to discount or ignore any one factor -- whether it be appearance, various qualities in the ring, charisma, mic work and other intangibles. Perhaps it'd be preferable if we could say that only certain factors were relevant, but its just not that simple.

 

 

If people could stop body shaming in this thread, that would be greatly appreciated.

How you look is a big part of being a wrestler. One of the more important things along with in-ring work, charisma, mic skills and character/gimmick.

 

Is it? If so why?

 

Is it important in UFC?

 

Somebodies body doesn't matter to me when it comes to them as a wrestler, why would it?

 

You've never liked a wrestler because of their look? You never thought ____ is cool, _____ is really pretty and I wanna hit that or I wish I looked like ____?

 

>Is it important in UFC?

 

Definitely. Your size determines which division you compete in first off. You get too out of shape and you might not make weight. I hear every event about how ____ looks like they are in _____ shape. People like Paige VanZant got a huge advantage because of their looks in sponsors, opportunities and interest.

 

PRIDE and K1 were masters of using this. Bob Sapp became a superstar off of his looks and charisma and people like Giant Silva got booked solely for being tall.

 

>Somebodies body doesn't matter to me when it comes to them as a wrestler, why would it?

 

Might not be important to you. Vince has given some people the rocket ship based on little more than looks and given great wrestlers the shaft because of their looks. I've seen bigger threads on some places about which wrestler is going bald than matches I thought were MOTYC's.

[Grimmas]

OF COURSE looks are important in UFC. You think Page Van Zant and Sage Northcutt got the promotion they got because of their skills? Do you really think UFC cards are based on talent and win/loss records as opposed to marketability? There's a reason why Ronda Rousey got the super media push she got as opposed to a fighter like Cyborg or Amanda Nunes. There's a reason why Mighty Mouse might be the P4P best fighter in UFC for years, yet people aren't interested at all in buying his fights.

 

Go to any MMA board and look at how guys that get off steroids or TRT are savaged for how they look afterwards. It's very important to MMA companies and MMA fans as well. Just because someone's body doesn't matter to YOU doesn't mean it doesn't matter to OTHER PEOPLE, and constantly nagging them to think like you isn't going to change dick.

 

Sorry I don't follow UFC enough. If people with society perfect bodies get advantages over others, that's pretty messed up. UFC is a sport.

 

As for your last sentence, I'm sorry I completely disagree with you. Yes, others feel it's important to them. That's not the issue. The issue is criticizing the bodies of great athletes calling them too fat or too skinny is a disaster for society. It adds to so many problems and is a practice that needs to be stopped. If you want to think to yourself whatever you want, go for it. However, I will call out body shaming every time. Not because it's my personal preference, it's because it's actually harmful.

 

 

 

 

Size isn't important in the UFC because they have weight classes that will keep ridiculous size disparities from happening unlike wrestling where every time I see people say Finn Balor needs to wrestle The Undertaker at Mania I just roll my eyes because he's 100 lbs lighter and a foot shorter and it would look ridiculous.

Here you are talking about height. I have no issues with that, nor does anybody else. Talk about height all you want. See how you can have a discussion without any body shaming there. It's not that hard.

 

I also said he's 100 pounds lighter and that's just as important as the height difference. It DOES matter. Zack Sabre Jr's deal of dominating people with technical wrestling doesn't work if the guy he's wrestling is a lot heavier and looks strong enough to just force his way out of holds.

 

Taker is 100 pounds heavier, because he is a bigger man. That's not body shaming in any way. There is nothing wrong with that. Again with the ZSJ comment, that isn't shaming anyone.

 

 

 

You've never liked a wrestler because of their look? You never thought ____ is cool, _____ is really pretty and I wanna hit that or I wish I looked like ____?

In the past sure, before I realized how fucked up the whole society and medical industry is when it comes to heath and weight.

Also, my personal opinion and my public opinion don't have to align. If I think something hurtful, why would I share it?

 

>Is it important in UFC?

Definitely. Your size determines which division you compete in first off. You get too out of shape and you might not make weight. I hear every event about how ____ looks like they are in _____ shape. People like Paige VanZant got a huge advantage because of their looks in sponsors, opportunities and interest.

PRIDE and K1 were masters of using this. Bob Sapp became a superstar off of his looks and charisma and people like Giant Silva got booked solely for being tall.

Again, I don't watch enough UFC to know. Last time I watched Tank Abbott was a big star.

>Somebodies body doesn't matter to me when it comes to them as a wrestler, why would it?

Might not be important to you. Vince has given some people the rocket ship based on little more than looks and given great wrestlers the shaft because of their looks.

Yeah, Vince is not my standard on what right and wrong is.

To clarify, body shaming is harmful to society. I will call out anyone who body shames.

[WingedEagle]

To follow on rzombie's coment, Grimmas, you're a big lucha fan. Do you watch lucha blind to a given performer's mask?

 

Certain fighters in UFC have undoubtedly gotten opportunities based upon their look and personality/charisma. But I don't think anyone there would lose an opportunity because of their look. Regardless of the promotional machinations that may drive shows, at the end of the day it is a sport and thus very different professional wrestling. If a given fighter goes on a run of wins like Jon Jones did en route to his first title challenge, that fighter is getting a title shot regardless of their look. Many fighters are pretty cut and fit because of their training, dieting and other measures they take to make a certain weight. This is less so the case at heavyweight, where not everyone exactly looks the part of a Brock Lesnar or Overeem. That's what happens when contests are not predetermined -- you do not get to choose which package or presentation comes out on top.

[Grimmas]

To follow on rzombie's coment, Grimmas, you're a big lucha fan. Do you watch lucha blind to a given performer's mask?

 

Certain fighters in UFC have undoubtedly gotten opportunities based upon their look and personality/charisma. But I don't think anyone there would lose an opportunity because of their look. Regardless of the promotional machinations that may drive shows, at the end of the day it is a sport and thus very different professional wrestling. If a given fighter goes on a run of wins like Jon Jones did en route to his first title challenge, that fighter is getting a title shot regardless of their look. Many fighters are pretty cut and fit because of their training, dieting and other measures they take to make a certain weight. This is less so the case at heavyweight, where not everyone exactly looks the part of a Brock Lesnar or Overeem. That's what happens when contests are not predetermined -- you do not get to choose which package or presentation comes out on top.

What does a wrestler's mask have to do with body shaming someone?

 

I concede my UFC point, I haven't watched it in a decade or so.

[WingedEagle]

 

To follow on rzombie's coment, Grimmas, you're a big lucha fan. Do you watch lucha blind to a given performer's mask?

 

Certain fighters in UFC have undoubtedly gotten opportunities based upon their look and personality/charisma. But I don't think anyone there would lose an opportunity because of their look. Regardless of the promotional machinations that may drive shows, at the end of the day it is a sport and thus very different professional wrestling. If a given fighter goes on a run of wins like Jon Jones did en route to his first title challenge, that fighter is getting a title shot regardless of their look. Many fighters are pretty cut and fit because of their training, dieting and other measures they take to make a certain weight. This is less so the case at heavyweight, where not everyone exactly looks the part of a Brock Lesnar or Overeem. That's what happens when contests are not predetermined -- you do not get to choose which package or presentation comes out on top.

What does a wrestler's mask have to do with body shaming someone?

 

I concede my UFC point, I haven't watched it in a decade or so.

 

 

The point of a wrestler's mask is that it is pure aesthetics rather than their performance in the ring. Much like ring gear and boots, haircut, facial hair, music, and much as it seems to offend you, all other aspects of a wrestler's appearance. Each wrestler will undoubtedly have more, less or zero control over some of these elements -- perhaps some can't grow their hair long. Others at all. Some can support a given weight, or perhaps 30 pounds heavier or lighter. It doesn't strike me as unreasonable to consider that all of these characteristics can contribute to an overall act, and even less unreasonable to think that's possible without simultaneously passing judgment on a wrestler. Strip away enough components and at some point you're no longer watching.

[rzombie1988]

>If people with society perfect bodies get advantages over others, that's pretty messed up. UFC is a sport.

 

That's life. See here about attractive looking people being more successful: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martha-ts-laham-/sitting-pretty-good-looking-people-make-more-money-but-its-not-all-roses_b_8203894.html .

 

Seeing people who look larger than life is part of the experience sometimes.

 

>Again, I don't watch enough UFC to know. Last time I watched Tank Abbott was a big star.

 

And why did Tank Abbott work? Because he looked like an average guy you'd find in your local bar. Even at his peak, he never had a great record. It certainly wasn't his skills that got him fame. Why was Royce Gracie chosen over Rickson to represent the Gracie's? Because they thought they could sell more lessons if they had a small guy beating bigger guys than if they had Rickson, who was a decent size and by all accounts much much better, doing it.

 

>Yeah, Vince is not my standard on what right and wrong is. To clarify, body shaming is harmful to society. I will call out anyone who body shames.

You're gonna be calling out a ton of people. Most of 4chan(Asuka's looks are one of the most consistently talked about subjects), F4W and just about every site I can think of.

[Infinit]

I wonder what Scott Steiner's take on this subject would be?? Lol

[The Thread Killer]

If people could stop body shaming in this thread, that would be greatly appreciated.

 

If it's tiresome to you, just ignore the topic and move on. Obviously you don't want to discuss it, so don't post about it and everybody will move on.

[Grimmas]

 

 

The point of a wrestler's mask is that it is pure aesthetics rather than their performance in the ring. Much like ring gear and boots, haircut, facial hair, music, and much as it seems to offend you, all other aspects of a wrestler's appearance. Each wrestler will undoubtedly have more, less or zero control over some of these elements -- perhaps some can't grow their hair long. Others at all. Some can support a given weight, or perhaps 30 pounds heavier or lighter. It doesn't strike me as unreasonable to consider that all of these characteristics can contribute to an overall act, and even less unreasonable to think that's possible without simultaneously passing judgment on a wrestler. Strip away enough components and at some point you're no longer watching.

 

I don't care if it's talked about in how it portrays a character. That's completely fine. The issue comes with actually body shaming.

 

"Braun Strowman" looks like a complete bad ass, his size plays into that". Awesome, fine!

 

"Chris Hero is fat." Is not helpful in anyway. If what you mean is "Chris Hero does not look like an athlete, so I don't buy him kicking ass". Sure, that's fine.

[Grimmas]

 

>Yeah, Vince is not my standard on what right and wrong is. To clarify, body shaming is harmful to society. I will call out anyone who body shames.

You're gonna be calling out a ton of people. Most of 4chan(Asuka's looks are one of the most consistently talked about subjects), F4W and just about every site I can think of.

Don't want to talk UFC, don't watch it. Don't care about it.

 

As for your comment here, I don't go to those places. The places I do, I do call them out.

[Grimmas]

 

If people could stop body shaming in this thread, that would be greatly appreciated.

 

If it's tiresome to you, just ignore the topic and move on. Obviously you don't want to discuss it, so don't post about it and everybody will move on.

 

I would love to talk about it. I haven't seen any argument that states body shaming is good for society yet, though.From all the reading, and talking to people and evidence I can see, body shaming is a serious issue in North America at least.

[rzombie1988]

 

 

If people could stop body shaming in this thread, that would be greatly appreciated.

 

If it's tiresome to you, just ignore the topic and move on. Obviously you don't want to discuss it, so don't post about it and everybody will move on.

 

I would love to talk about it. I haven't seen any argument that states body shaming is good for society yet, though.From all the reading, and talking to people and evidence I can see, body shaming is a serious issue in North America at least.

 

You should see what it's like in a place like China if you think its bad here. Even at America's worst, we got nothing on that.