Grimmas Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 In Marvel I really love What If? comics as it's fun to explore if things were different. I thought it would be fun to play that with wrestling. What if... Vince chose Bret over Shawn? In September 1997 Vince approaches Bret and tells him he can't afford his contract anymore, was going to breach it, and Bret can either take a huge pay cut or try to get the WCW deal before the WWE goes under. What if he approaches Shawn instead? Shawn just signed a huge contract as well and asking Shawn to go instead would accomplish the same thing. It wasn't all money, but Shawn/Bret obviously weren't going to work together going forward. What changes? Bret holds the title till Mania and drops it to Austin then jump starting Austin as the top star. Tyson can easily come in and still help draw a huge buy rate. Going forward Bret is around, while Shawn was injured. What would Bret be doing post Mania. It would probably be like 95 where he was in the middle of the card? Bret/Owen tag titles run? I think the chances of Austin/McMahon feud still going on is pretty good. They had already started with Austin being anti authority, stunnering Slaughter and JR. I think it's a natural evolution. Could the McMahon character be as over not screwing Bret? Attitude era. I think with Austin/Rock as top stars, it still would had been as big without being as dirty. Bret would be against a lot of the things attitude did, but I don't think it matters with Austin/Rock as the stars. Owen doesn't get Blue Blazer gimmick, does it save his life? Does the boom happen? Do the Radicalz still jump? With Bret/Owen around that only seems like positives. Shawn in WCW? It didn't work with Bret, Shawn being in nWo with Hogan there seems like it wouldn't had worked earlier. I guess you speed up the Wolfpac break up. Does Shawn still get injured? Does his drug problems get even worse? Does he work in WCW? Any other WCW affects? Overall if you do this switch does the WWF do better or worse? Does WCW do better or worse? What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 On the WCW side. Shawn works maybe a handful of matches before having to hang them up for good. I think in this scenario. WCW does the same overall and WWF does a lot worse. The Mr. McMahon character loses a little something without screwing Bret. I also think Rock and Austin suffer a little for not having as clean of a break from the previous generation of main eventer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted May 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 I also think Rock and Austin suffer a little for not having as clean of a break from the previous generation of main eventer. Bret putting both over huge and then moving down the card would not be enough? Austin beats Bret for the title at Mania. Then Rock gets a singles feud with Bret elevating him to the top? Bret still probably retires in 2000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye12 Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Without Mr. McMahon, Austin doesn't become all that important so WWF never booms like it did. He's a different type of top guy to try compared to Bret and Shawn but it's the dynamic with Vince that got him over so much. Plus he got to make a fool out of Vince at every turn and in ways he wouldn't be able to do to another wrestler as opposed to the boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 I would say Bret goes well into the 2000s if he doesn't suffer that concussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 I also don't know how quietly Bret moves down the card. I think he puts Austin over just fine but I think there would come a point where he would want the belt back. I think there's also a strong possibility that he steals Foley's title reigns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted May 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Without Mr. McMahon, Austin doesn't become all that important so WWF never booms like it did. He's a different type of top guy to try compared to Bret and Shawn but it's the dynamic with Vince that got him over so much. Plus he got to make a fool out of Vince at every turn and in ways he wouldn't be able to do to another wrestler as opposed to the boss. Vince was headed towards that anyways. The night Vince said he couldn't pay Bret was the night he was stunnered in MSG. Vince played a heel in Memphis, Austin was anti authority, I think a McMahon-Austin feud still happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted May 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 I also don't know how quietly Bret moves down the card. I think he puts Austin over just fine but I think there would come a point where he would want the belt back. I think there's also a strong possibility that he steals Foley's title reigns. He was pretty down the card in 95 no problem and his contract was for 3 years wrestling (so 99) then going to backstage role. He probably does steal Foley's 99 reigns, but I don't see that changing history too much. I think Rock may had been more over beating Bret than Foley in 99? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Bret wouldn't have had the same juice as Foley. People wanted to see Foley win, they wanted him to have his big moment. With Bret you wouldn't have had the same emotional payoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted May 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Bret wouldn't have had the same juice as Foley. People wanted to see Foley win, they wanted him to have his big moment. With Bret you wouldn't have had the same emotional payoff. So with Bret around, Foley never gets his moment? Quite possible. I don't think that made or would break the boom though. Rock/Austin and McMahon is all that matters really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Vince plays it safe until he loses his security blankets. Rock and Foley happened because he didn't have any other options. So if he still had Bret hanging around, he would have gone safe with Rock/Bret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted May 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Vince plays it safe until he loses his security blankets. Rock and Foley happened because he didn't have any other options. So if he still had Bret hanging around, he would have gone safe with Rock/Bret. He did have Taker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 What does Tyson's WM 14 involvement look like without HBK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Vince plays it safe until he loses his security blankets. Rock and Foley happened because he didn't have any other options. So if he still had Bret hanging around, he would have gone safe with Rock/Bret. He did have Taker.Taker wasn't Bret though. And that Rock/Foley stuff came about because Austin and Taker were off the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 What becomes of Paul Levesque? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Now that is interesting. Because he gets made by Foley. You take Foley's title reigns and feud with the Rock away and I don't see how he gets accepted as a main eventer by the fans. I'm guessing we get the same HHH without that 10 month run where he was attached to some hot feuds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 I think What Happens With Foley is the most interesting question. Really WWF lost Bret & Shawn. Presuming Bret is sticking around, I would imagine he would be Vince's corporate champ. We basically get the corporate ministry stuff in 1998 only its the Hart Foundation. You still do Austin vs McMahon. What happens with the McMahon character is interesting because Montreal was such a big moment. I actually kinda think Vince should screw Shawn to keep that shit alive. But Foley? If Bret sticks around, he kinda naturally becomes Vince's corporate champ going against Austin. So we probably don't get the awesome Foley vs Austin brawls. Or, they take the place of Foley vs Rock and Rock is working Bret to keep the Austin vs Rock Mania Main event Alive. Edit Loss just asked a great question, what happens with HHH. I'm not exactly sure, but I was going to say in this Bret over Shawn Universe, Steph marries Owen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 I think HHH depends on when he and Stephanie started hooking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 With no Hall, Nash or Shawn around, is HHH even considered a future headliner? Especially when Bret is the highest paid guy and the one with power, and the one that (a) refused to do a job for him on a European tour and ( refused to beat Rock on TV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Yes because he would still become the son and law and would have wormed his way up there. He just would have circumvented Austin and Bret and still gotten the runs on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 To become the son-in-law, he would have had to get that storyline. And would he have gotten that storyline with Bret still around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 At what point did HHH start getting "future headliner" talk? Serious question. Because I could definitely see him not being on the radar without Shawn, Hall, Nash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Towards the end of 1998 I think is when he started getting headliner talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Let's go a little further down the card. What does Bret staying do to Edge and Christian and maybe even Jericho when he comes in. Do they get pulled into the Hart Foundation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted May 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 A scenario where Bret is the one in charge of creative and Triple H fades into obscurity is a scenario I am ok with. Trips was getting pushed, he won KOTR and was feuding with Foley on the under card. DX had just started, without the name, but without HBK I don't know. Triple H maybe leaves for WCW as soon as he could? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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