goodhelmet Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 The minute he met Kevin Sullivan's wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 When did Benoit start to become such an ass backstage? Seriously. This is like the third or fourth ribbing/hazing story we've heard of involving Benoit in the past year alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 I was thinking it was the 3rd of 4th incident with him in the last 5 months or so actually. I guess it's a bi-product of hanging around JBL and Undertaker. Though it's funny to see his actions getting glossed over while people bash JBL over it. I'm not surprised as people have been spinning him and Nancy Sullivan since it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 I really hate it when people try to spin it that their favorite wrestlers, or wrestlers that are good at putting together matches, are somehow noble figures. From all of the shoots and stories I have ever heard, the only two genuinely good people in the business were Bobby Eaton and Baron Von Raschke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 My favorite is how people constantly try to spin how huge a racist that Kawada is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Racist or nativist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 A little of both I think. I just didn't know the right word for that and xenophobe didn't seem to properly fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 You rarely hear anyone say a bad word about Bob Backlund either. And unless they're trying to suck up to Vince, you don't hear many people bashing Bret (although that's a big group admittedly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 I hear stories about Misawa not liking Americans too, and I wonder how much of that is a product of Japanese culture, which is one of the most homogenous industrialized cultures on the planet. I mean, someone pointed out at DVDVR (before their hypersensitive mod squad shut it down as usual) that Bob Sapp could never be as popular in the US as he is (was?) in Japan because his whole appeal is being a giant black guy. As far as Benoit goes, not to defend asshole behavoir but it would be REALLY hard not to rib guys who have to wrestle as "The Dicks" considering the typical wrestler mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 The Japanese are xenophobic in nature. So it's not a huge surprise. Though American culture is a giant fab there right now so I don't really know how that fits in with all of that. There tends to be a lot of racism towards Koreans there though from what I've heard. I'd say Misawa is probably more of a typical xenophobe. But it's hard to tell with him because he's big on kayfabe. Giant Baba supposedly was also in a similar camp with them as far as their attitudes towards foreigners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Japanese have always disliked Koreans, Rikidozan was Korean passing as Japanese and I don't think the truth was revealed till well after his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 I wonder if it's common knowledge that Riki Choshu is Korean in Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Is he Korean ethnically or was he just born in Korea, because his real name sounds more Japanese than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Choshu changed his name when he moved to Japan to hide his Korean heritage. I read his real name in "The Top 100 Wrestlers of all Time" but I forget what it is. I know that it has always bothered me that the rumors are that Misawa and Kawada both "hate" Americans. I even read that Kawada refuses to shake hands with Americans, and the only non-native Japanese he ever has been seen publically shaking hands with are Lord James Blears and Stan Hansen. I also read that Kawada can actually speak half decent English, but that he refused to speak with any American wrestlers when they were planning matches. He reportedly always used Yoshinari Ogawa to translate for him when communicating with Americans. Then again, the source for this information was from second hand recaps of shoot interviews from guys like Steve Willams, so who knows. (Dr. Death and Kawada reportedly hated each other for ages, but Kawada worked that tribute show for Williams in the IWA last year, so maybe they're okay now...or Kawada felt sorry for Williams being so sick and losing his voice box to cancer.) I do think that one of the issues Misawa had with Mrs. Baba was that she had no qualms pushing Americans into the Main Event spots in AJPW, or seeing them with the Triple Crown. I think Misawa didn't mind having Americans on the roster, or even holding minor titles, but not the big one...which is why we've never see a major American star in NOAH...but guys like Steve Williams and Vader did hold the Triple Crown in AJPW. I would be interested to hear Mike Modest interviewed about Misawa, since he was bringing some of his IRON guys over for a while. Now that IRON is closed, Misawa is using Harley's Race's school and league, WLW. Now Modest and Morgan aren't even being booked in NOAH and are begging TNA for work. The only other real negative thing I read about Misawa was in an interview with Steve Corino. Corino claimed that he had always looked forward to working with Misawa because he thought he was a legend, but when he did work with him, he found Misawa to be lazy, stand offish and indifferent. I dismissed this, because DUH. He's Misawa. Corino is Corino. Why the HELL would Misawa get amped about working with CORINO? They ain't exactly on the same level. So that just goes to show that what you hear can be tainted by somebody's own odd perspective. (That's like Foley complaining to Meltzer about Jumbo not giving him enough offence in their match in 1991. Why the hell would Jumbo Freaking Tsuruta want to have a 50/50 match with the 1991 version of Cactus Jack? At that point he was a total nobody...Jumbo was right to allow him to get a few spots in, and then squash him.) When I look at my favorite Puro stars not liking Americans, I have to say that although it disappoints me that I hear these things, there are other factors to consider. Firstly, it's all second hand information on the internet, so it could be bullshit. Secondly, it's a sad fact that most of our heroes are different off camera than on. I remember how disappointed I was when I found out what guys like Brody and Onita were like backstage. You want to think that when somebody is fun to watch and plays an inspiring character, that they are somebody you will like if you met them, but so often it's not true. Finally, let's be honest. Although the U.S. was quite justified in dropping bombs on Japan, you can see where the Japanese people would bear a grudge. And look how America treats Japanese wrestlers for the most part. Sneaky heels who throw salt, sumo wrestlers, or guys who spray mist. When was a Japanese wrestler ever given a real high profile spot in an American fed? Muta in 89, is the biggest I can think of. I don't think it's wrong that Misawa would want NOAH to feature native stars, and that he would want Japanese fans to cheer Japanese wrestlers. That makes sense. But I would still hate to think he "hates" Americans. The way Kobashi was recieved in ROH, that is how I would like to see Puro legends treated. That's why I was okay with the fans chanting "this is awesome" three minutes into the match. If I had the chance to see one of my all time favorites live, I'd be pretty pumped up as well. And there you go, Kobashi is one of those Puro stars that you never hear a bad word about. He apparently speaks half decent english and is very polite and kind to all of the other wrestlers, regardless of their cultural background. Hell, even Dynamite Kid puts the guy over huge in his book. When Tom Billington likes you, that must mean something, since I have heard both Diana Smith and Bret Hart say that DK was the meanest person they ever met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 According to obsessedwithwrestling.com, Choshu's real name is Mitsuo Yoshida, which sounds more Japanese than Korean to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bravesfan Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 The last name Yoshida is indeed Japanese, but that's the name change that TTK was referring to. A google search brought up Kwak Kwang-ung as his Korean birth name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 If my name was Kwak Kwang, I think I'd change it regardless of the circumstances. Then again, what sounds funny to us is common for them, and they might laugh at our names...who knows. That's the difference in culture. We eat Hot Dogs, which are full of who knows what kind of "meat." They eat actual dogs. Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 You rarely hear anyone say a bad word about Bob Backlund either. And unless they're trying to suck up to Vince, you don't hear many people bashing Bret (although that's a big group admittedly). I completely overlooked this post but two guys who have bad impressions of Bret who have no interest in pleasing McMahon are Bad News Brown in his shoot and DK in his book. I would have to go back and watch 20 shoots but I know there are also guys who think Bret has an inflated opinion of himself. when I have time, maybe I will go back and re-read some of teke's old shoot recaps to see what people say. I think HonkyTonk Man throws some jabs at Bret in his shoot for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dangerous A Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 Yeah, on F4Daily a few months ago, Honky Tonk called Bret an egomaniac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 I think Bret was just as bad as Michaels when it came to the political side of things in the 90s. People just overlook it because he ultimately lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 Not really. Bret lost every belt he won in the ring. Bret missed only one show. Bret faked no injuries to get out of jobs. Bret never showed up for work drunk or stoned. Much more professional than Michaels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 Yeah, I agree with Loss on this one. Saying that HBK and Bret acted the same is just inaccurate. As for Honky's claim that Bret was an ego-maniac, I don't doubt it. There's a name for guys who don't have a strong wrestling ego or play the political game... midcarder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 I never said he acted the same as Michaels. I said he was just as political as Michaels was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 OK, sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 I've never thought there was a problem with being political, so much as there is a problem with being unprofessional. I can't think of a time when Bret refused to do the right thing for business (let's not mention That One Thing since we all know where each other stands on it). I can think of many times Michaels has been in that position. It's like with HHH. I don't care that he's married to the head writer and that he wields a lot of influence. I care that he's using that influence to protect himself at the detriment of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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