This might make a fun topic

[goodhelmet]

For starters I hate the KOTDM final and think it's actually a really bad match by virtually any standard. That's one of the few "bad" Terry Funk matches I can think of offhand. So the "throwing each other into bombs" thing isn't something I really dig either, as I assume you would have to be citing that match.

Might as well tack on the other IWA matches as well.

 

 

Setting that aside, I like alot of Funk's "garbage style" stuff.

Well, this is where the paths really start to diverge.

 

 

I don't think any of it is great really, but much of it is good.

What makes it good?

 

 

Even in matches that aren't good Funk is almost across the board the best worker as he always brings alot more than just the expected big bumps to the table.

What else does he bring?

 

I think Sabu/Funk is a good match. I think Funk was involved in several ECW tag matches in particular that ranged from solid to very good with the best of the bunch being Cactus/Douglas v. Funk/Sandman. I think he had at least one very good match with Foley in ECW and a great RAW match with Foley. I also enjoyed his work with Foley teaming up in WWF. He had a good match with Mark Henry also. I thought he had good matches with Candido, Smiley and others in WCW.

I also really enjoyed his match with Bob Armstrong.

Why do you think any of those matches were good? What made them good?

 

 

Funk was briefly around in 94 in WCW working primarily the Rhodes as I recall. IIRC he came back originally for the Slamboree show that year which I believe featured Dick Murdoch busting his ass in a bizaare atheletic display of flying headscissors.

OK, I remember him wrestling the Slamboree show.

 

So yeah. I just totally disagree. Honestly I don't agree with you on alot of things

Which is neither here nor there. I patiently await when you tell me why you think those matches are good.

 

and I'm probably in the minority with this view on Funk, but I don't think he ever got near the level of shittiness that Flair was at a couple of years ago. That's not to say he's better than Flair, because he had far fewer Classics and worked a much less imposing schedule, but decline v. decline boy I don't think it's even close as to who was worse and it wasn't Funk.

It depends. I think both of them should have retired years ago. Still, since Flair works a full-time schedule and has been shoved down our throats on TV week after week, it is easier to expose his weaknesses than it is Funk's. If Funk was employed regularly and seen every week, the shitty decline factor would be just as noticable.

 

 

The first sentence of option 2 is pretty much how I feel about how you feel about post-89 Funk

No, I don't have a dislike for Funk the way you do about Kerry. I love most of Funk's work for at least a good 15 year span. For post-89 Funk, you might be able to male an argument for a couple of matches being worthwhile but just saying you like a match doesn't mean it is good. I think the big difference is that you like his "garbage-style" body of work and I don't. Since Funk was working that style the majority of the time, it appeals to me less. Why he decided to go that route is beyond me since he was so good at so many other things.

[Loss]

GH makes a good point comparing Pat Patterson to Raven. That was seriously spot on. Patterson is officially up in the air and I've no clue what to do with him.

 

I want to discuss a few other guys mentioned here.

 

Dutch Mantel - Should be talked about before some of the guys on the lower rung of the list, but in the end, he's 99% likely NOT to make my final list, so I'm not sure how much time I should invest in thinking about Dutch when I know exactly how his career has gone for the most part, but I've only seen a handful of matches from guys like Jerry Estrada, El Dandy and Emilio Charles.

 

Tommy Rogers - Omission by accident who should be included, but will end up below Morton and Eaton a few notches. Timing is everything, and timing is the one thing that kept the Fans from being as over and remembered as the Rock & Rolls.

 

Butch Reed - As I mentioned, on the next tier of guys I'd consider, and may end up bumping some of the guys I have ranked higher off the list. One thing I forget sometimes with Reed is how much I loved his tag team with Ron Simmons in 1990. I just think about Mid South and somehow forget the rest of his career.

 

Mick Foley - Someone I should think more about that I keep ignoring for some reason, most likely because I think so many of the problems with today's wrestling climate are the result of Foley becoming a millionaire main eventer by falling off of a cage. I think he's a large, large part of the reason it's so hard to get traditional wrestling over anymore, because he raised the bar too high taking bumps at a level no one should ever take. He's responsible for the desensitizing of wrestling fans. Obviously, one of the best maniac brawlers ever as Cactus Jack, in an era where that thing seemed to be passe, and he kept it relevant and got over by being truly unique. A case for me where post-1999, the comebacks and Mr. Nice Guy persona have really hurt his legacy and made it easy to forget how wild he once was. I will say I would rank Foley over Jericho if only because Foley was a favorite of mine from 1989-1996 or so. Jericho is not someone I'm considering. His biggest strength is that he's good at everything and understood how to get himself over as a star. His biggest weakness is that he's not really great at anything (except for the occasional interview or match) and took his sweet time putting the whole package together.

 

Buddy Landell - I'd love to, but I can't. Landell doesn't have that defining singles match that everyone can point to. Landell is more of a guy I love to death and enjoy watching than he is a great, great wrestler who belongs on a list like this. Fun as hell, but almost all comedy, which is fine with me, but also limits him when competing with other guys with more versatility.

 

Bill Eadie - Another guy who was great in his time, but is not someone I'd call elite, if only because there's no one I listed, at least on the top half of the list, that he's miles better than.

 

Paul Orndorff - Good at times, most of the time in fact, but the fact that he wrestled Hogan a million times and they never had a match that clicked for me is what hurts him more than anything. That puts him way behind guys like Savage, Perfect, etc., and outside of that series, he has a fun run as a singles heel in '93 WCW that was killed when they paired him with Paul Roma, and some good matches with Ted DiBiase that don't really paint the full picture of the feud unfortunately.

 

Marty Jannetty - I like him more than Michaels in some ways, but voting for him seems ... contrarian for some reason, if only because if I vote Jannetty, I have to vote Michaels quite a bit higher, and Jannetty's presence on this would necessitate a higher place for Michaels than he deserved.

 

Nick Bockwinkel - In the end, he'll end up much higher. I watched a cage match with him carrying an aging Crusher from '79 AWA and I'll be damned if he didn't have the match Michaels should have had with Hogan at Summerslam and didn't. Bumping all over the place like a madman and creating movement, but not at all in a way where he was going into business for himself. Bock has many shining moments, and will end up higher. For whatever reason, though, every time I think about him, I wonder about Ray Stevens, who I've seen almost nothing of, and wonder how they compare to each other and if I should bother seeking out Stevens. He won't be in my top 15 because of all the competition for the top spots, but I'm curious -- if you're ranking him in your top 15 and Barry Windham #20, does that mean you're planning on putting Bockwinkel ahead of Windham?

 

Now THAT'S a discussion I want to have.

 

[Guest DylanWaco]

Bock is currently five spots ahead of Windham.

 

If I wanted to I could most certainly make a case that Windham was better, but I would have to ignore Windham's huge periods of laziness which I'm just not comfortable with. Bockwinkle is a guy who I don't think ever took a night off and who was working in a situation where he easily could have gotten away with it as many of his AWA counterparts weren't known for a tremendously high work ethic (Dick The Bruiser and Crusher come to mind). I really think the Hennig stuff stacks up very comparably with Flair's matches with Windham and this was well after Nick's prime and arguably before Curt's. The most interesting Hogan matches I have seen have involved Nick (not neccesarily the best, although perhaps they are). He did alot of carrying it seems, but was less formula oriented than guys like Flair and Michaels who are more well known for their skills in that department. He's got lesser known good matches with guys like Manny Fernandez and Magnum T.A. that once again are well past Bock's prime. Maybe I'm grading on a curve with him, though I'm trying to avoid it, but I've been really impressed with his work for some time now.

 

Stevens is someone like Paterson who's best matches don't exist on tape because Shire tossed everything. It's a shame, because I suspect Stevens is one of the best wrestlers who ever lived, but there is no evidence. IF I were going to rate anyone on rep it would be Stevens..but I'm not, so he won't make my list at all.

 

Re: Funk's garbage work

 

I won't ask you to go back and watch any of his matches because you don't appear to like them and I'm fine with that. Still if you watch matches like the tag with Pogo v. Busa/Tanaka where Funk sells strongly throughout and builds to the bigger spots throughout or the Sabu BTW match where he takes the crowd turning toward Sabu and starts heeling it up or the various ECW tags where he was working a quasi-Brody style when heel and a broken down old man FIP with a twist when face and I think it's obvious that he wasn't just diving into sharp shit and eating chairshots. I think there is a far cry from John Zandig and Terry Funk and if you don't that's fine but if anything watching alot of this shit very recently has made me more impressed by alot of his post-89 work.

[Guest DylanWaco]

Why's Lawler currently so high? What matches am I missing?

WP, I'll be releasing a 4-5 disc Lawler best of set at the end of the month. I am only waiting for his AWA matches and it will be ready. If you look at Lawler's run from late 70s to early 90s, the man was phenomenal.

 

Lawler had great runs/matches with...

Bill Dundee

Dutch Mantell

Austin Idol

Harley Race

Ric Flair (best ten minute time limit draw I have seen w/ a great angle)

Kimala (Yeah, friggin Kimala!)

Randy Savage

Kerry Von Erich

Koko Ware (which I am having a hard time finding a good copy of)

Bob Sweetan

Nick Bockwinkle

Curt Hennig

 

That doesn't even include the feuds that he got over. That is strictly on in-ring work.

Interesting, I think I might have seen the Flair match but I remember just thinking it was okay. Where did it take place at?

I manage to see a Lawler match here and there yet they never appeal to me but of course my mind is open. There've been a couple of wrestlers from the past that I unfortunately somehow managed to see all their worse stuff first only to see their better stuff afterwards. It could be the same with Lawler.

 

Goodhelmet, I might just have to get a bunch of stuff off you some day because you

have some nice comps made up.

 

 

Here's my extreamly temporary list which is actually over 100. I've gotten lazy on doing my research however. I should be rewatching a lot of matches

 

 

 

 

Dynamite Kid

 

 

 

Chris Benoit

 

 

 

 

Kenta Kobashi

 

Bret Hart

 

Mayumi Ozaki

 

Jumbo Tsuruta

 

Manami Toyota

 

Jushin Lyger

 

Akira Hokuto

 

Ricky Steamboat

 

Aja Kong

 

Jaguar Yokota

 

Nakio Sano

 

Johnny Smith

 

Stan Hanson

 

Dynamite Kansai

 

Takada

 

Kawada

 

Toshiyo Yamada

 

The Destroyer

 

Misawa

 

Hiroshi Hase

 

Chigusa Nagayo

 

Koboyashi

 

Eddie Guerrero

 

Ric Flair

 

Tatsumi Fujinami

 

Masami

 

Kyoko Inoue

 

Shinya Hashimoto

 

Steve Williams

 

Owen Hart

 

Vader

 

Shinjori Ohtani

 

Mima Shimoda

 

Etsuko Mita

 

Dan Kroffat (2nd)

 

Rey Mysterio Jr.

 

Mariko Yoshida

 

Terry Gordy

 

The Cobra

 

Bull Nakano

 

Sakie Hasegawa

 

Brian Pillman

 

Steven Regal

 

Steve Austin

 

Shawn Michaels

 

Mr. Perfect Curt Henning

 

Ben Basserb

 

Barry Whindam

 

Macho Man Randy Savage

 

Momoe Nakanishi

 

 

Tiger Mask

 

Marc Rocco

 

Mimi Hagiwara

 

El Samurai

 

Ultimo Dragon

 

Chris Jericho

 

Gran Hamada

 

Sgt. Slaughter

 

Dean Malenko

 

Jun Akiyima

 

Scott Norton

 

The British Bulldog Davey Boy Smith

 

Villano III

 

Terry Funk

 

Megumi Kudo

 

Meiko Satomura

 

Akira Taue

 

KENTA

 

Sting

 

Kurt Angle

 

Adrion Adonis

 

Lioness Asuka

 

The Great Sasuke

 

Brock Lesnar

 

Andre the Giant

 

Booker T

 

Debbie Malenko

 

Hulk Hogan

 

Hikari Fukuoka

 

Lightning Kid

 

2 Cold Scorpio

 

Biff Wellington

 

Kikuchi

 

Pat Tanaka

 

Masa Chono

 

Bob Backland

 

Rip Rogers

 

Dump Matsumoto

 

Nikita Koloff

 

Raven

 

Mikey Whipwreck

 

Masato Tanaka

 

Rick Martel

 

Dustin Rhodes

 

Scott Steiner

 

The Rock

 

Keiji Mutoh

 

Ron Simmons

 

Bad News Allen

 

Fit Finlay

 

Harley Race

 

Brad Armstrong

 

Ricky Morton

 

American Dragon

 

Bigelow

 

Arn Anderson

 

Gary Albright

 

Yumiko Hotta

 

Ted Dibiase

 

Gama Singh

 

Sabu

 

Taka Michinoku

 

Rhonda Singh

 

Lo Ki

 

Reggie Bennett

 

Cactus Jack

 

People I'm not sure where to rank at right now

 

*El Hijo Del Santo

Jumping Bomb Angels

 

Koboyashi

Atlantis

Yuki Ishikawa Battlearts

Kazou Yamazaki

Koshinaka

Fuerza Guerrera

JIm Breaks

Blue Panther

Volk Han

Fantastics

Midnight Express

Wait, is this in order?

 

I know you are a big fan of DK and Benoit so I'm not surprised to see them at the top, but some of this is really surprising to me if in fact this is in order (Steamboat and Sano in particular seem way high).

 

I am struggiling with Han and Kobayashi also.

 

I have done four drafts.

 

Kobayashi has been on two and off of two. I really don't know where he belongs in relation to alot of other workers.

 

Han is really fucking hard. Less than one hundred career matches and he only worked one style, but several great matches and the master of the style in question which is a style that I happen to think is really dificult to exectue smoothly and in a way that doesn't look either mastubatory or sloppy.

[Resident Evil]

It's a temporary order. I was looking through it myself and was questioning my own picks just the other day. It was like "Why do I have wrestler A over Wrestler B?

 

I noticed that I don't have Rick Rude on there. I'm not sure how that happened at all. The one guy I am going to put on the list now is Jamie Knoble. I've been very impressed by his ROH work and in combination with his WWE work I feel he deserves a spot.

 

Terry Funk I feel really bad about -- I like him a LOT more than what my placing dictates. He's probably going up higher especially if I manage to see the right stuff.

 

Sano's placing is a result of me loving the Sano vs Lyger series that much.

 

Steamboat's a hard, consistant worker who has tremendous selling. He brings a lot of stuff to wrestling that I personally like.

[Guest Kevin Cook]

Thought I'd toss in my Americans/Canadians as I probably have way less than most people here would. A couple of notes: I was basically unconcerned with exact placement, and instead broke up my list into five tiers and concentrated on getting people into the right tiers. Looking over my list I made a few screwups (Brazo de Oro is ridiculously high because I was watching some great stuff of his the day I made out my list, for instance), and I blanked on Dick Murdoch, but this is about right. Race and Funk I don't think are in the absolute first rank of workers; they could rate higher, but they could also rate a bit lower, too.

 

A few questionable picks: Sid made the list because you can't take this sort of thing too seriously, Joe because I like him and as the markazine-type token indy pick, and Angle because I mark for him. Undertaker made it for working so many great matches; there's been a LOT of shit, but I'd take him over Foley, HHH, Jericho, Michaels, et al without thinking about it.

 

6 Ric Flair

7 Eddy Guerrero

11 Chris Benoit

12 Rey Mysterio Jr.

13 Vader

16 Jack Brisco

20 Stan Hansen

22 Terry Funk

24 Bret Hart

26 Harley Race

28 Jerry Lawler

29 Ricky Steamboat

31 Barry Windham

33 The Destroyer

34 Steve Austin

45 Arn Anderson

50 Bobby Eaton

52 Terry Gordy

53 Dory Funk Jr.

62 Tully Blanchard

65 Tommy Rogers

69 Ted DiBiase

74 Jake Roberts

78 Doug Furnas

79 Dan Kroffat

82 Ricky Morton

87 Eddie Gilbert

88 Chavo Guerrero

95 Undertaker

98 Sycho Sid

99 Samoa Joe

100 Kurt Angle

[Guest Kevin Cook]

Oops.

[Guest DylanWaco]

Thought I'd toss in my Americans/Canadians as I probably have way less than most people here would. A couple of notes: I was basically unconcerned with exact placement, and instead broke up my list into five tiers and concentrated on getting people into the right tiers. Looking over my list I made a few screwups (Brazo de Oro is ridiculously high because I was watching some great stuff of his the day I made out my list, for instance), and I blanked on Dick Murdoch, but this is about right. Race and Funk I don't think are in the absolute first rank of workers; they could rate higher, but they could also rate a bit lower, too.

 

A few questionable picks: Sid made the list because you can't take this sort of thing too seriously, Joe because I like him and as the markazine-type token indy pick, and Angle because I mark for him. Undertaker made it for working so many great matches; there's been a LOT of shit, but I'd take him over Foley, HHH, Jericho, Michaels, et al without thinking about it.

 

6 Ric Flair

7 Eddy Guerrero

11 Chris Benoit

12 Rey Mysterio Jr.

13 Vader

16 Jack Brisco

20 Stan Hansen

22 Terry Funk

24 Bret Hart

26 Harley Race

28 Jerry Lawler

29 Ricky Steamboat

31 Barry Windham

33 The Destroyer

34 Steve Austin

45 Arn Anderson

50 Bobby Eaton

52 Terry Gordy

53 Dory Funk Jr.

62 Tully Blanchard

65 Tommy Rogers

69 Ted DiBiase

74 Jake Roberts

78 Doug Furnas

79 Dan Kroffat

82 Ricky Morton

87 Eddie Gilbert

88 Chavo Guerrero

95 Undertaker

98 Sycho Sid

99 Samoa Joe

100 Kurt Angle

Taker isn't a bad pick at all. He won't be on my list but he's a guy that a case can easily be made for. I wouldn't take him over Michaels or Foley, but I like The Rockers an awful lot and Foley may more than virtually anyone else I know. How he rates in relation to Jericho and HHH is tough, but I can see rating Taker above both of them.

 

Interesting to see Furnas over Kroffat.

[Loss]

Thought I'd give a very early draft of the Japanese men. I'm not sure how I'm going to rank them compared to their American peers yet, as I'm still working that out. But I know they will be in this order.

 

Still need to see the shoot-style guys like Volk Han, Tamura, etc. Also, strangely, I've never seen a Naoki Sano match, and will try to see his best stuff before the deadline. I also want to make a point to see some more of the stuff from guys like Ishikawa, Ikeda, Otsuka, etc.

 

I'm coming up with so few guys. I feel like I'm missing a ton of people for some reason, but can't figure out who I'm missing exactly.

 

1. Jumbo Tsuruta

2. Toshiaki Kawada

3. Jushin Liger

4. Mitsuharu Misawa

5. Kenta Kobashi

6. Shinya Hashimoto

7. Nobuhiko Takada

8. Genichiro Tenryu

9. Masa Fuchi

10. Akira Taue

11. Kazuo Yamazaki

12. Akira Maeda

13. Tiger Mask

14. Tatsumi Fujinami

15. Hiroshi Hase

16. Shinjiro Otani

17. Giant Baba

18. Antonio Inoki

19. Yoshiaki Fujiwara

20. Tsuyoshi Kikuchi

21. Riki Choshu

22. El Samurai

23. Taka Michinoku

24. Kuniaki Kobayashi

25. Ultimo Dragon

26. Gran Hamada

27. Dick Togo

28. Shiro Koshinaka

29. SUWA

[Coffey]

Where does the Great Muta fit into all of this? He wrestled in the States and in Japan, so does he have his own category or something?

[Loss]

Undecided on Muta. Brief periods of being good-great and far longer periods of being lazy and uninspired.

[Loss]

Ugh, Hase needs to be higher there than he is.

[World's Worst Man]

I give Otani more credit for his 3 years of greatness I guess. I'd probably say he was the 2nd best I've ever seen from about 96 to 98. He'd probably be top 10 for me. Kawada is #1 for me over Jumbo, because again, I think Kawada's peak was better than anyone else I've seen. He had about 5 years in that perch. But it's just a matter of going for Kawada's superior peak vs. Jumbo's longevity. My top 5 would probably be the same as yours, just Jumbo moving down to 3, and Kawada/Liger's position moving up accordingly.

 

Also, going back to the US list, I'd also have Hansen way higher, like top 3 probably. He might be the best I've ever seen at making a brawl look good. And his ability to put over a story is well documented. But it's really his ability to carry the physical workload of a match that puts him over some other guys, who while being good at storytelling, really can't touch him in the "physical" department.

[Loss]

What are some good post-1996 Otani matches I should see? I can't stand his heavyweight stuff for the most part, but maybe there's some latter day stuff he had before bulking up that was good. The reason I didn't rank him higher was because I couldn't think of an overwhelming amount of good stuff before or after 1996.

[Mad Dog]

I think if I did a top 100 list that I'd probably put Jushin Liger as my No.1 for all time. I've never seen a wrestler as well rounded as he is. He's consistently been good to great for around 16 years now. He even completely changed his moveset to a more brawling/power based one and still kept the same quality in his matches.

[World's Worst Man]

Otani was involved in a bunch of good tag stuff in '94, before he was really ready for the singles push. Nothing great really, but a lot of really good stuff that showed his potential. Anyway.

 

Koji Kanemoto vs. Shinjiro Otani (7/13/95) Kind of a low-key, yet excellent match from that year's BOSJ.

Ultimo Dragon vs. Shinjiro Otani (J-Cup 95) I thought this was still excellent, despite the silliness. A pre-cursor to ther J-Crown match the following year.

Jushin Liger vs. Shinjiro Otani (2/9/97) Incredible followup to their '96 classic. I like this enough to call it Otani's third best.

Yoshihiro Tajiri vs. Shinjiro Otani (5/20/97) Only "very good", but it was quite a carry job I thought. Otani was in the opposite role here, as instead Tajiri was the young underdog, while Otani was the dominant side.

Shinjiro Otani vs. Ultimo Dragon (1/4/98) Not as good at their J-Cup match or their J-Crown classic, but still a really good match in a rapidly declining junior division.

 

In 98/99, Otani was usually the guy propping up those tag matches with him and Takaiwa. The matches were usually only good, but it was usually all Otani. After 98, the body of work really falls off, but you could tell Otani still knew how to work, and do it well. The junior division was just falling apart at that point, and even someone like Liger wasn't producing any great matches. I don't think it was the wrestlers as much as it was the booking and attention given to the division at that point. Also, certain less-skilled wrestlers were at a point where they were allowed to determine the direction of the matches (Kanemoto for instance). So then you had a bunch of time wasting leading to heatless near falls, which is the direction that the matches seemed to go in. Just a theory. Certainly, Otani was never physically as good as he was from 95-98, but his mind was still there.

[Mad Dog]

I blame Chosu for how shitty the junior division had been until last year. That stupid, have Liger squash every junior on the roster and then let Sasaki destroy him in a non-title match was straight out of Vince McMahon's head.

[Loss]

Was the plan ever for Liger to win the heavyweight belt? I recall reading that he was going to win it at some point, but plans changed. That may be incorrect.

[Mad Dog]

I think he was supposed to just challenge for it. I don't believe that with Chosu as booker that he'd actually have a junior take the belt off of his golden boy.

[Guest DylanWaco]

1. Jumbo Tsuruta

2. Toshiaki Kawada

3. Jushin Liger

4. Mitsuharu Misawa

5. Kenta Kobashi

 

Can't argue much with any of this other than the order. Misawa will not be a top five Japanese on my male list. He will be sixth. But I can absolutely see why someone would rate him top five, or even number one overall.

 

6. Shinya Hashimoto

 

I love Hash, but I think this is too high.

 

7. Nobuhiko Takada

 

He's the other guy in my Japanese top five taking the place of Misawa in yours.

 

8. Genichiro Tenryu

9. Masa Fuchi

 

Mixed feelings on both guys. I haven't seen a whole lot of post 00 Puro, so Tenryu is on my list but far down it. Fuchi is not on my list right now, though he probably should be.

 

10. Akira Taue

11. Kazuo Yamazaki

12. Akira Maeda

 

Tough block of workers here. I have Taue higher than the other two, but depending on what you look for in a worker and what style you prefer you can easily make a case for any of these guys being above the other.

 

13. Tiger Mask

 

Won't make my list. Kobayashi is better and he's barely on my list and will probably get knocked off since I have to make room for guys like Fuchi, Dennis Condrey and Brad Armstrong. If I was I was giving huge points for influence, I could see puting Sayama this high. Otherwise I can't see any reason for him to even make a list. Honestly Angle is a better worker pretty easily.

 

14. Tatsumi Fujinami

15. Hiroshi Hase

16. Shinjiro Otani

17. Giant Baba

18. Antonio Inoki

 

Shit this is tough. I had a real hard time placing Otani. I was and am a huge Otani mark and his being the best wrestler in the world in the absolute best year for pro wrestling from top to bottom is reason to rate him highly..but then his pre-peak and post-peak work is far from mind blowing. LOTS of good stuff, but not alot of great stuff. Best springboards ever though

 

Fuji is a tough one. I have him 51st right now overall, but it seems low. I really like his junior work though and feel he was a very high quality worker for years.

 

Hase should be higher. I rate him easily better than Hash for example. He combined great emotion, with a great moveset, snugness, and excellent selling. The closest thing to the total package of any NJPW heavy.

 

Baba and Inoki are total wildcards. I can see puting them in a top thirty and I can see leaving them off the list all together. They are both on my list but without looking I honestly don't know who is ahead of the other. Baba has almost certainly been a part of more really good-great matches, but Inoki is certainly the better natural athlete and wrestler. Lots of wierd shit, goofy shit and bad shit from late in both guys careers, but I don't think it's enough to knock either guy off the list.

 

19. Yoshiaki Fujiwara

 

Not on my list. Maybe should be. I'd have to go back and watch alot of stuff to form a more solid opinion.

 

20. Tsuyoshi Kikuchi

 

I have Kikuchi pretty highly, but I have Dan Kroffat pretty high also.

 

21. Riki Choshu

 

Very charismatic, engaging wrestler who was good at hiding his weaknesses, but I don't know if he had enough strengths to place. Sorta the Japanese Nikita Kollof but with a much longer run.

 

22. El Samurai

23. Taka Michinoku

24. Kuniaki Kobayashi

 

Taka isn't on my list, but likely will end up right near the tale end. Too much impressive stuff in hindsight to discount. Kobayashi is likely to slide off of my list much to my dismay. I love the guy, but he's pretty far down on the depth chart of great juniors. El Samurai is an easy pick for me, but he's one of those guys who is an easy pick in the (oh yeah he definately makes my list, but he won't finish higher than sixty" way. I'm interested to see where he places overall.

 

25. Ultimo Dragon

26. Gran Hamada

27. Dick Togo

 

Hamada is not on my list, mainly because he lacks a defining match and just sorta blends into the scene. I wouldn't rate him behind Kanemoto, but it's worth noting that Kanemoto has a standout quality that always leads me to think of him before Hamada and guys of his ilk.

 

Ultimo I will rate higher than most I suspect, because I really thought he was outstanding in 96-97. Loved his work both in the States and in Japan as he had a really unique style for the time. I actually enjoyed his WCW TV title run as much as anything on TV during that period also.

 

Togo is so fucking cool he's almost impossible not to rate. He's like the anti-Hamada as he stands out even at times when he isn't the best worker in a match. Very enjoyable to watch and very good also.

 

Super Delphin is a guy who should probably sneak into a consideration list of juniors from this period. He won't place for me, but he was involved in some very good stuff and his 2000 Osaka Pro match with Togo is one of my favorite matches of this decade, having rewatched it very recently.

 

28. Shiro Koshinaka

29. SUWA

 

Koshinaka is way too low IMO. Lots of good stuff as both a heavy and junior. Not as dynamic as Takada obviously, but I actually have him rated ahead of Fujinami right now.

 

SUWA is someone I have considered from the jump, but he's likely to be one of the last ten or so people I end up striking off permanantly. It's really hard for me to rate someone with that much of a career ahead of them, espcially if they don't have a really big volume of excellent matches.

 

I have Sasuke very low on my list right now. Same with Sano. Sasuke may drop off, Sano won't. I can't take off a guy who had a series as good as his with Liger's, as it was the best juniors series ever. Sasuke is a guy who seemed to stumble into good matches and though he was a breathtaking flyer when on mark, he was sloppy very often.

 

Onita is an interesting guy to think about. He's not on my list and won't be, but if you are rating people like Dump and Jake Roberts I'd think you'd have to at least consider him.

 

Masato Tanaka is on my list as a guilty pleasure of mine and my favorite FMW worker. Honestly Oya and others ought to at least be viewed, because some people are really into that stuff, and it's better than many critics claim it is.

 

Chono ought to be thought about, same with Nagata. Neither guy is on my list, but they both have a good amount of high end matches. Chono suffers from irritating boughts of laziness and Nagata suffers from the fact that he is sorta like a Japanese Kurt Angle, but I would still encourage people to try and find what they can from both guys.

 

Yatsu is another name who had some really great work, with a pretty rough down period.

[Loss]

Okay, I've made my first draft. I'm sure I'll look at this and see things I want to change. I need to look at this again when it's not so fresh on my mind to make sure I'm not doing anything really obviously boneheaded, but at this point, the following people are looming outside the top 100 and I really want to place them.

 

Mick Foley

Dustin Rhodes

Lioness Asuka

Shiro Koshinaka

 

And here's the list right now:

 

1. Ric Flair

2. Jumbo Tsuruta

3. Toshiaki Kawada

4. Nobuhiko Takada

5. Jushin Liger

6. Negro Casas

7. Jerry Lawler

8. El Hijo del Santo

9. Harley Race

10. Kenta Kobashi

11. Akira Hokuto

12. Eddy Guerrero

13. Mitsuharu Misawa

14. Chris Benoit

15. El Dandy

16. Aja Kong

17. Genichiro Tenryu

18. Blue Panther

19. Mayumi Ozaki

20. Stan Hansen

21. Terry Funk

22. Chigusa Nagayo

23. Arn Anderson

24. Akira Taue

25. Hiroshi Hase

26. Masa Fuchi

27. Ricky Morton

28. Fuerza Guerrera

29. Billy Robinson

30. Jaguar Yokota

31. The Destroyer

32. Vader

33. Bull Nakano

34. Dick Murdoch

35. Dynamite Kid

36. Devil Masami

37. Rey Misterio Jr

38. Kiyoshi Tamura

39. Villano III

40. Nick Bockwinkel

41. Dump Matsumoto

42. Kazuo Yamazaki

43. Bret Hart

44. Shinya Hashimoto

45. Pirata Morgan

46. Barry Windham

47. Marc Rocco

48. Atlantis

49. Ricky Steamboat

50. Jack Brisco

51. Bobby Eaton

52. Juventud Guerrera

53. Dynamite Kansai

54. Ted DiBiase

55. Volk Han

56. Satoru Sayama

57. Rick Martel

58. Akira Maeda

59. Randy Savage

60. El Samurai

61. Steve Austin

62. Mariko Yoshida

63. Javier Cruz

64. Sgt. Slaughter

65. Dan Kroffat

66. Owen Hart

67. Brazo de Oro

68. Adrian Adonis

69. Shinjiro Otani

70. Tully Blanchard

71. Bill Dundee

72. Manami Toyota

73. Tatsumi Fujinami

74. William Regal

75. Bob Backlund

76. Dennis Condrey

77. Kuniaki Kobayashi

78. Dory Funk Jr.

79. El Texano

80. Buddy Rose

81. Giant Baba

82. Jake Roberts

83. Antonio Inoki

84. Steve Williams

85. Taka Michinoku

86. Brian Pillman

87. Don Muraco

88. Shawn Michaels

89. El Satanico

90. Fit Finlay

91. The Rock

92. Jerry Estrada

93. Ron Garvin

94. Roddy Piper

95. Angel Azteca

96. Curt Hennig

97. Americo Rocca

98. Naoki Sano

99. Rick Rude

100. Kyoko Inoue

[Loss]

Okay, I've made my first draft. I'm sure I'll look at this and see things I want to change. I need to look at this again when it's not so fresh on my mind to make sure I'm not doing anything really obviously boneheaded, but at this point, the following people are looming outside the top 100 and I really want to place them.

 

Mick Foley

Dustin Rhodes

Lioness Asuka

Shiro Koshinaka

 

And here's the list right now:

 

1. Ric Flair

2. Jumbo Tsuruta

3. Toshiaki Kawada

4. Nobuhiko Takada

5. Jushin Liger

6. Negro Casas

7. Jerry Lawler

8. El Hijo del Santo

9. Harley Race

10. Kenta Kobashi

11. Akira Hokuto

12. Eddy Guerrero

13. Mitsuharu Misawa

14. Chris Benoit

15. El Dandy

16. Aja Kong

17. Genichiro Tenryu

18. Blue Panther

19. Mayumi Ozaki

20. Stan Hansen

21. Terry Funk

22. Chigusa Nagayo

23. Arn Anderson

24. Akira Taue

25. Hiroshi Hase

26. Masa Fuchi

27. Ricky Morton

28. Fuerza Guerrera

29. Billy Robinson

30. Jaguar Yokota

31. The Destroyer

32. Vader

33. Bull Nakano

34. Dick Murdoch

35. Dynamite Kid

36. Devil Masami

37. Rey Misterio Jr

38. Kiyoshi Tamura

39. Villano III

40. Nick Bockwinkel

41. Dump Matsumoto

42. Kazuo Yamazaki

43. Bret Hart

44. Shinya Hashimoto

45. Pirata Morgan

46. Barry Windham

47. Marc Rocco

48. Atlantis

49. Ricky Steamboat

50. Jack Brisco

51. Bobby Eaton

52. Juventud Guerrera

53. Dynamite Kansai

54. Ted DiBiase

55. Volk Han

56. Satoru Sayama

57. Rick Martel

58. Akira Maeda

59. Randy Savage

60. El Samurai

61. Steve Austin

62. Mariko Yoshida

63. Javier Cruz

64. Sgt. Slaughter

65. Dan Kroffat

66. Owen Hart

67. Brazo de Oro

68. Adrian Adonis

69. Shinjiro Otani

70. Tully Blanchard

71. Bill Dundee

72. Manami Toyota

73. Tatsumi Fujinami

74. William Regal

75. Bob Backlund

76. Dennis Condrey

77. Kuniaki Kobayashi

78. Dory Funk Jr.

79. El Texano

80. Buddy Rose

81. Giant Baba

82. Jake Roberts

83. Antonio Inoki

84. Steve Williams

85. Taka Michinoku

86. Brian Pillman

87. Don Muraco

88. Shawn Michaels

89. El Satanico

90. Fit Finlay

91. The Rock

92. Jerry Estrada

93. Ron Garvin

94. Roddy Piper

95. Angel Azteca

96. Curt Hennig

97. Americo Rocca

98. Naoki Sano

99. Rick Rude

100. Kyoko Inoue

[Resident Evil]

19. Mayumi Ozaki

 

Last I heard you hadn't watched too much joshi puroresu so this is a really impressive rating. Ozaki will be extremely high on my list.

 

26. Masa Fuchi

 

Interesting

 

35. Dynamite Kid

 

I didn't know you liked DK that much

 

47. Marc Rocco

 

Awesome. Rocco's actually better at some aspects of the game than wrestlers "better" than him. Just a natural wrestler.

 

84. Steve Williams

 

I think Williams is underrated. He has such a strong presence in the ring and his work ethic is seemingly looked over. I do have a bias towards big guys who can produce a great wrestling match however.

[Guest DylanWaco]

Mick Foley

Dustin Rhodes

Lioness Asuka

Shiro Koshinaka

 

Dustin seems like a hipster pick, given the DVDVR Dustin of The Day thing. I'm not saying that's what you would be doing, but I don't think he's the kind of guy who's ommision from such a list would be glaring or even of much concern. I don't see him as being significantly better than Marty Jannetty or Bam Bam Bigelow for example, and both of those guys got bumped off my list months ago.

 

Foley is a controversial pick, but to me he's an easy one none the less. Way too many good and memorable matches, and more often than not he was the best worker in those bouts. I think he's a good bit better than alot of people that made your final ballot, but more on that later

 

You don't like Koshinaka as much as some do, so I'm not surprised to see him off your list. I'm actually happy that you seem to feel a bit guilty about that, as it strikes me as a step forward for you on Kosh, whom I think is a gimme pick.

 

Very surprised Asuka didn't appear on your list. I understand their are a couple of obvious knocks against her and I can see why she might be lower on your list, but there are some names on your list that have almost identical knocks and weren't nearly as good in the ring IMO. Once again more on that later

 

And here's the list right now:

 

1. Ric Flair

2. Jumbo Tsuruta

3. Toshiaki Kawada

4. Nobuhiko Takada

5. Jushin Liger

6. Negro Casas

7. Jerry Lawler

8. El Hijo del Santo

9. Harley Race

10. Kenta Kobashi

 

Your top ten is pretty agreeable.

 

As it stands I will have no lucha on my list. There are only four or five guys I would feel comfortable rating at all, and I'm not sure I could rate them fairly. If I could afford to purchase a lucha set I would, but I can't. If I were going to rate any luchadores Casas and Santo would be two of the four (Blue Panther and Atlantis would be the other two definates) so I can definaely see them as top ten guys.

 

Though the order will be different, our top five will have four of the same people. Only Takada will not be in my top five, and he is going to be either sixth or seventh on my list (it's between him and Kobashi).

 

Race fluctuates on my list between 10-12. Right now I have him at number 10, but there is a chance he could slide down a slot are two. Lawler in the top ten is something I can't do, but I understand it and don't consider it all that odd.

 

11. Akira Hokuto

12. Eddy Guerrero

13. Mitsuharu Misawa

14. Chris Benoit

15. El Dandy

16. Aja Kong

 

Boy, El Dandy must have some really awesome stuff out there.

 

I have Aja and Hokuto in my top ten, but I love Joshi and think when it is done best no other style of wrestling is as good. I have Aja one slot above Hokuto and that won't change, as I think Aja had a slightly better career, with Hokuto having a better peak.

 

Interesting to note that we have almost identical placement of Eddy, Misawa and Benoit right now. Glad I won't be the only person to keep Misawa out of the top ten AND behind Eddie.

 

17. Genichiro Tenryu

18. Blue Panther

19. Mayumi Ozaki

20. Stan Hansen

21. Terry Funk

 

Tenryu is the first person on your list I feel is really overrated and Funk is the first one I think is really underrated..but I have to say I don't really find other placement objectionable. I have a minority opinion on Funk, but right now I'm leaning heavily toward making him my number one overall. I don't think he has quite the resume that a couple of other guys have on the surface, but his versaility and consistent ability to be entertaining and stand out decades past is prime is something that is hard to overlook. Couple that with the fact that I think I will be one of the few people to even consider him for the top ten and I feel almost obligated to vote him number one overall. Tenryu is someone that I think has benefitted dramatically by the fact that he is one of the only Japanese heavys to excede expectations in the post-Baba period. I never heard anyone touting him as a top of the line guy until after the AJPW split and now I see alot of people talk about him as one of the elite. I don't see it myself, but it's a fairly consistent opinion. He'll be in the lower quadrant of my list.

 

I think you have Ozaki a little bit higher than I do and Hansen a little bit lower, but I got no real gripes.

 

22. Chigusa Nagayo

23. Arn Anderson

24. Akira Taue

25. Hiroshi Hase

26. Masa Fuchi

27. Ricky Morton

 

I thought I was the only person that would end up rating Chiggy top twenty-five. Actually she MIGHT drop out of my top twenty-five but I'm just happy I'm not the only one who will have her up there.

 

Arn has come full circle and is now officially and overrated wrestler. I love Arn Anderson. He's one of my five favorite wrestlers ever, he was a great tag wrestler and no one ever had a better move than his spinebuster, but I don't see him as even being a serious contender for top twenty-five of all time. I know he's been "rediscovered" in recent years, but I can't in good conscience vote him higher than someone like say Jack Brisco who is on the cusp of my top twenty-five right now. Wouldn't even dream of rating him higher than Windham.

 

Taue and Hase both seem a wee bit high to me, but I can understand their placements. Odd that I was thinking I might end up rating Taue higher than anyone at 28 or 29 and both you and Oles have him higher than me.

 

Actually I thought for sure I would end up rating Morton higher than nearly everyone after my most recent draft where I had Ricky at 32. Now it looks like I won't

 

Fuchi strikes me as the first really out of place pick. I disagree on Tenryu, Arn and some others but I can understand where you are coming from. Fuchi I don't even really understand. Fuchi wasn't even on my list until my most recent draft, not because I didnt think he belonged, but because he fails to stand out in my mind and I nearly forgot him. I'd need to be sold on his placement in a top thirty.

 

28. Fuerza Guerrera

29. Billy Robinson

30. Jaguar Yokota

31. The Destroyer

32. Vader

 

I have Yokota MUCH higher.

 

Glad to see another person with Billy over Beyer, but I take Billy over Beyer by a landslide myself.

 

Early 30's seems like a perfect slot for Vader.

 

33. Bull Nakano

34. Dick Murdoch

35. Dynamite Kid

36. Devil Masami

37. Rey Misterio Jr

38. Kiyoshi Tamura

39. Villano III

40. Nick Bockwinkel

 

While I am glad Bock made your top fifty, he's still way too low for my liking. He was a complete wrestler, who suffers from the fact that alot of his best stuff will never be seen and what is available is mostly clipped or JIP. Of course the same could be said for Lawler and I think Bock is a bit better. Just a really versatile wrestler who was a more creative and interesting carrier and lead worker than anyone I've ever seen.

 

I think Rey is low also. I think I'm going to end up rating him higher than most people. I have watched alot of him in recent months and it's incredible how far ahead of the curve he was in the mid-90's both in terms of high flying, speed and energy. Hitting a second peak on tv during this era only raises his stock.

 

I don't have Tamura or Han in the top fifty, though I rate both of them.

 

Masami, Nakano seem to be i reasonable places as does Murdoch.

 

I'll have DK lower than most. First draft I had him at 44 and he has gone down since. Not way down but down. He's a guy who I really want to like more than I do, but I just don't get wrapped up into many of his matches, even though I can acknowledge that technically he's excellent.

 

41. Dump Matsumoto

42. Kazuo Yamazaki

43. Bret Hart

44. Shinya Hashimoto

45. Pirata Morgan

46. Barry Windham

47. Marc Rocco

48. Atlantis

49. Ricky Steamboat

50. Jack Brisco

 

Alot of interesting stuff in here.

 

I didn't rate Dump and won't. She's an interesting figure in general. A few years back no one would have really dreamed of rating Dump at all in a top 100 on the IWC. Honestly before I went to Smarkschoice I never really read anyone present her in a positive light as a worker. I was probably the only person I knew on the net who thought she was good in the ring and I don't recall ever really thinking she was better than that. She's one of those wierd wrestlers that seems to have a corner of supporters that REALLY support her and a corner of folks on the otherside that have no interest at all. I'm not really in either camp, but I won't rate her.

 

Yamazaki is going to end up overrated because Oles and others went nuts talking about how underrated he was in the pimping lists. I don't think he's bad and I don't think your placement is bad at all, but I have a feeling he's going to end up in a few peoples top twenty-fives and that's insane to me.

 

Another interestig similarity between our list...Bret and Hash are right on top of each other. I'm not sure if I have them neck and neck anymore, but I did for the first three drafts, though they were a couple of notches down from where you have them. The comparison between these guys seems kinda of wierd at first, but I honestly can't decide whom I think was better (Hash seems to me to have naturally been better, while Bret has probably been in more matches I have liked..oddly I get the feeling this is the EXACT opposite opinion most people would have).

 

Windham is WAY too low and I"m very surprised to see you rate him where you did. You seemed a bit surprised earlier that I was rating him below Bockwinkel, and while I still am they are both top twenty-five picks and as of now top twenty picks on my ballot. Windham in my view had an astronomical peak, in which he was as good or better than any North American ever. He was better early in his career than most wrestlers ever get after years of experience. Even in 93 he was maybe the second best wrestler in WCW after Vader who himself was on a tear that year. Sure his decline was bad, but he partially redeemed himself in my eyes, by having a good run in his last big time shot with West Texas Rednecks. Way more good than bad, and alot of the good was great. Should have been higher on your list and certainly should be above someone like Arn whom I love to death, but who never in my view had a peak near Barry's level.

 

Rocco is someone I'm iffy on. I want to include him and want to have him relatively high, but in order to do so, I'd have to dredge up a bit more of his work. Not sure I'll have the time.

 

Steamboat is low to me, but I understand why and I don't think it's an abyssmal rating. Brisco is way too low, but he's going to suffer because alot of people haven't seen a big body of his work. Neither is a big complaint.

 

51. Bobby Eaton

52. Juventud Guerrera

53. Dynamite Kansai

54. Ted DiBiase

55. Volk Han

56. Satoru Sayama

 

I think we have Eaton in the exact same spot. It's strange because I really don't think the gap between Eaton and Ricky Morton is all that significant, but Morton's run of singles work being so much better than Bobby's limited streak ends up with him being twenty slots higher on my list.

 

Juventud made his first appearance on a draft of mine, last go around. Believe I had him at 90. When he was on he was sensational, but he was off alot and I'm already doubting if he's going to make the final cut, espcially if I end up trying to get guys like Rocco on. Very surprised he's so high on your list.

 

Kansai seems low to me, but I love Kansai.

 

Dibase seems really low to me actually, given your love for Mid-South. I really expected him to be an easy top fifty pick for you. I'm surprised you would have him behind Bret, Steamboat, or Fuchi for example.

 

I basically agree on Han. He may actually be slightly lower on my final ballot which will not endear me to some folks.

 

Sayama is someone I really don't think should be on anyones list and I'm disappointed that he placed so highly on yours. I suppose if you are grading on influence he has to make the list, but influence is a very small part of what I was thinking about when compiling my ballot. Sayama really was never a very good wrestler and he had a very short career. Asuka didn't make your list and I think she just about slaughters Sayama across the board. I'd pretty comfortable rate Kobayashi over Sayama, and Kobayashi is a low end pick to me. Fujanami was way better both as a juinor, against DK, and overall career v. career. Hell Kurt Angle, whom I know you aren't high on as a serious contender for this list, absolutely obliterates Sayama in terms of number of good matches and fluidity at minimum. I actually think Angle is a way better candidate, and I think Cobra might actually be as good a junior from the period. A bad pick IMO, and probably the only one on your list that I really can't see myself finding any common ground with you on.

 

57. Rick Martel

58. Akira Maeda

59. Randy Savage

60. El Samurai

61. Steve Austin

62. Mariko Yoshida

63. Javier Cruz

64. Sgt. Slaughter

65. Dan Kroffat

 

Wow, Martel seems high in a way and I like Martel. I love his AWA work and he tended to have really good big time matches when given the chance, but he didn't get very many chances at all during his physical prime. He's a guy that I don't think we will ever know for sure how good he could have been. Very strange to see him so tight with Dibase on your list.

 

All of the rest of that is pretty non-objectionable to me and I have alot of the same names bunched in together in roughly the same range. Slaughter over Kroffat is an interesting issue to me as it is an exact comparison I was contemplating the other night. I'd be interested to see why you ended up taking Sarge over Dan.

 

I'd also be interested to see why Austin was so far behind Bret.

 

66. Owen Hart

67. Brazo de Oro

68. Adrian Adonis

69. Shinjiro Otani

70. Tully Blanchard

71. Bill Dundee

 

It's kinda funny that I think at the end of the day I'm gonna end up rating Dundee higher than you are Ohtani is low to me, but I get why some won't rate him in the top fifty. He's definately a disputably name. Tully being that far below Arn is puzziling to me. I may end up rating Adonis higher than anyone else as I love workers of that ilk and he may have been the best of the bunch. Owen is low for my liking, but I'm glad that he'll be on your list as I fear he will be left off of many lists.

 

72. Manami Toyota

73. Tatsumi Fujinami

74. William Regal

75. Bob Backlund

76. Dennis Condrey

77. Kuniaki Kobayashi

78. Dory Funk Jr.

79. El Texano

80. Buddy Rose

 

Toyota is WAYYY low and I'm a huge critic of Toyota. I'm really amazed to see her so low. Way too many great matches to be placed below someone like Rick Martel for example.

 

Fujanami and Regal are guys I'm having big time trouble with. Regal comes in a couplet with Finlay to me. I think Regal has had the better career, but Finlay the better peak. Either way I can't seperate the two but I have immense trouble relating them in relationship to anything else. Fujanami is hard for me to rate because his potential was so much greater than his output.

 

Backlund isn't on my list and won't be. I think he's a half assed wrestler in his best bouts, that puts alot out there for parts of matches and very little for other parts. Very unengaging also. I just can't vote for him.

 

I want to find room for Condrey but haven't yet. He may end up number 100, if I end up bumping Danielson and Joe off the list (I'm leaning toward doing that now).

 

Kobayashi is a bit high..I think I had Dory right in the same range..stunned to see Buddy Rose on the list at all and I really wonder what you based that on...his best stuff was Portland allegedly and there isn't an awful lot available. I loved him in the AWA, but I couldn't find a place for him based on that.

 

81. Giant Baba

82. Jake Roberts

83. Antonio Inoki

84. Steve Williams

85. Taka Michinoku

86. Brian Pillman

87. Don Muraco

88. Shawn Michaels

89. El Satanico

90. Fit Finlay

 

I LOVE Jake being the bridge from Baba to Inoki. Baba and Inoki are maybe the two most dificult wrestlers to place on this list and puting Jake inbetween them is rich. Of course I don't think Jake belongs on the list, but that's a minority opinioin it appears.

 

I think Williams is too low, but I see why Steve may not be high on some peoples list. Unmotivated Steve can be down right embarrasing.

 

Pillman will be higher on my list, but not by much. Taka just made an appearance on my most recnet balloting and he's right near the bottom. I have Michaels in almost exactly the same place. Muraco I had and fell off my list. There are alot of really good Don matches and alot of really disappointing ones. Finlay I think is low.

 

91. The Rock

92. Jerry Estrada

93. Ron Garvin

94. Roddy Piper

95. Angel Azteca

96. Curt Hennig

97. Americo Rocca

98. Naoki Sano

99. Rick Rude

100. Kyoko Inoue

 

Ron Garvin? Wow. I know you like him more than most, but I never would have guessed he would crack anyones top hundred. Not a bad pick for the end part of a list, but I wasn't expecting it.

 

Piper I think is going to get an assload of votes in the 90's and end up being one of those guys who does better overall than he did on any list. I just get the feeling that he appeals enough to the more "work oriented" fans because of a few high profile matches and the fact that he was so energetic, plus I know he's going to do well with the Insane Clown style voters.

 

The Rock won't be on my list, but I can't fault anyone for rating him.

 

Hennig and Rude seem low to me, but I"m just glad to see them appearing. Same with Kyoko, whom I expect to get shunned.

 

Maybe the best result on your whole list is Sano getting yet another voter. He may make the overall list yet.

 

No Terry Gordy? That stands out to me more than some of the other names you listed above. It's an interesting list and I've highlighted alot of disagreements, but I agree with alot of it also. Only the inclusion of Sayama really bothers me.

[Guest Luds]

11. Akira Hokuto

12. Eddy Guerrero

13. Mitsuharu Misawa

14. Chris Benoit

15. El Dandy

16. Aja Kong

 

Boy, El Dandy must have some really awesome stuff out there.

Dandy was da bomb in Los Fabulosos!