Wrestlers that you have discovered or rediscoverd via 24/7

[Loss]

I think the major problem with developmental is that the view of wrestling that the people running developmental have rarely matches the view that people like Stephanie McMahon and Johnny Ace have. The ones who suffer for it more than anyone are the wrestlers who end up caught in the middle.

[Strummer]

I think House Show attendance has risen the last year or so because more women and children are buying tickets to see Cena and to a certain extent DX. I went to a RAW House Show last December and couldn't believe the amount of young 18-30 year old women and young kids.

 

The problem is that they are not buying the PPVs at a higher rate which of course is the reason the company is staying status quo/or slighly below financially

[Mad Dog]

It's funny how Stephanie is basically in charge of the company and she always has an excuse for not going to OVW to check out the future talent. And also hiring guys like Rodimer and wanting to push them as main eventers because she has a crush on them.

 

Raw ratings shouldn't even matter now. The WWE doesn't get a piece of that action so why bother trying to pop a rating when you won't see a dime. That should've been a clue to pull back on big free tv matches and sell the PPVs and paying events more. But whatever. Vince is still living in the Attitude Era.

[Loss]

Well, Stephanie does have her faults, but she appears to have picked up on a few things along the way. She's done a good job protecting John Cena and making him a star, and her team has done a much better job putting together storylines lately, mainly because they've simplified them so much.

[Strummer]

Well, Stephanie does have her faults, but she appears to have picked up on a few things along the way. She's done a good job protecting John Cena and making him a star, and her team has done a much better job putting together storylines lately, mainly because they've simplified them so much.

 

You can probably add Michael Hayes and Dusty Rhodes influence on the booking

[Mad Dog]

Putting Hayes in charge of Smackdown was probably the smartest thing she's ever done while having the book.

[sek69]

Speaking of Lanny Poffo, does it weird anyone else out that he looks like a completely different person without facial hair?

 

Exhibit A:

 

 

 

My brain can't wrap around that being the same guy who pranced around throwing frisbees and competing in battle royals in a suit of armor.

[Mad Dog]

This month needed a lot less Pedro Morales and a lot more Mil Mascaras. I know people like to slam on Mascaras but he was pretty good most of the time. That's another by product that I hate from Foley's book. You have Foley crying about a legend not selling for an undercard guy and suddenly you have a bunch of guys slamming on a guy who they've either never seen or only seen when he was way past his prime.

[kjh]

With regards to Stephanie, it is hard to know how much credit to give her for the recent improvement in booking, given that from all accounts Vince is as hands on as he's ever been creatively. She probably deserves credit for running the writing team competently and helping to execute Vince's vision in a committed fashion, but I don't know what we can credit to her beyond that. Are there any recent angles or feuds that were successful that were mainly her idea, because I can't think of any?

[JHawk]

This month needed a lot less Pedro Morales and a lot more Mil Mascaras. I know people like to slam on Mascaras but he was pretty good most of the time. That's another by product that I hate from Foley's book. You have Foley crying about a legend not selling for an undercard guy and suddenly you have a bunch of guys slamming on a guy who they've either never seen or only seen when he was way past his prime.

 

I'm not a Mascaras fan. Don't get me wrong. I love watching his offense, as even past his prime the man looked completely graceful in the ring. But even in his prime I never saw him take a bump worth a damn, and I don't remember seeing too many matches where he was on defense for any length of time.

[Loss]

With regards to Stephanie, it is hard to know how much credit to give her for the recent improvement in booking, given that from all accounts Vince is as hands on as he's ever been creatively. She probably deserves credit for running the writing team competently and helping to execute Vince's vision in a committed fashion, but I don't know what we can credit to her beyond that. Are there any recent angles or feuds that were successful that were mainly her idea, because I can't think of any?

 

Even if they aren't her ideas necessarily, if she's putting people who are equipped to make good decisions in those spots, then she's doing her job.

 

I believe I've read that she's been a big advocate of sticking with John Cena when others were against it. And she was obviously behind the DX reunion, which was nauseating at times but worked.

[Mad Dog]

Larry Zbyszko as a commentator is a lot better than I remembered. Namely his selling of the cruiserweights. He spends their matches just talking about how insane all of them are and I think he helped the division quite a bit with his commentary.

[Loss]

I remember the night that Juventud Guerrera debuted on Nitro, and Tony and Larry just did this incredible job getting him over. Schiavone had all this information about his background and knew the names of all his moves. Then, Gene Okerlund swoops in after the match and starts yelling at him to speak English and that was the end of that.

 

The worst WCW debut around that time was still Chris Jericho though. Alex Wright gets a groin injury off of a highspot and Jericho has the match stopped because he doesn't want to win that way. He then does an interview after the match saying that he and Alex Wright will defend WCW "with all their heart". There's a perception that babyfaces were wholesome once upon a time, and that's true, but even your classic babyfaces like Ricky Morton and Ricky Steamboat were more aggressive than that.

[Mad Dog]

This is an area where Scott Hall deserves credit and never gets it. He laid down for Jericho on Nitro and really made him look good in the process. Even though he won the rematch he still made Jericho look great.

[Loss]

I don't think slower matches are worse per say. I just think the WWF style per about 1987 was really bad. Very slow and basic and a lot of guys who were really over the hill populating the shows. Match length was also an issue they had. S.D. Jones doing 20 minute matches just doesn't thrill me. Like I said, you get a Barry Windham in there and he really stands out just because he's so much more agile than just about anyone else.

 

I just like the quicker moving, more varied and harder hitting style of JCP, Mid-South and a lot of the other areas.

 

I've also noticed what a complete dick the Undertaker was to Vader and just how out to bury the guy he was.

Just wanted to come back to this. I totally agree with it, but someone looking to troll would probably say something like, "That just proves that workrate doesn't draw because the WWF had the big crowds in spite of the bad matches" or some other oddball talking point. The NWA and Mid South having a faster, more physical wrestling style was a benefit to them. Part of their fanbase was fans who enjoyed that style. People did not tune into the WWF because they *weren't* working that style, or because they wanted to see bad matches. People did tune into the WWF because they had larger than life stars. I don't think anyone would deny that's the sort of thing that's going to draw in a way to lead to record gates, mainstream exposure, etc.

 

There seems to be an Internet movement at times with people who look to completely devalue the importance of being good in the ring, almost like they're arguing that fans would rather see a bad match than a good one.

 

It also doesn't mean that the peak of JCP when they were selling out baseball stadiums is any less impressive, even if they weren't the #1 company at the time. No one has ever argued Ric Flair as a bigger draw than Hulk Hogan. But the NWA, even as the #2 promotion, had a really hot 2+ year run until various things happened to screw it up.

 

Common sense, but you see this argument rearing its head at times in strange forms, and it never fails to annoy me.

 

Carry on.

 

[Strummer]

Hell I'll say it: the Samoans. They might not have been that great on offense but they sold like crazy and could bump very well for big men. You didn't see many heels in early 80s WWF do 360 sell jobs of punches or go flying out of the ring unprotected.

[Mad Dog]

Just wanted to come back to this. I totally agree with it, but someone looking to troll would probably say something like, "That just proves that workrate doesn't draw because the WWF had the big crowds in spite of the bad matches" or some other oddball talking point.

Yeah that argument pisses me off by how stupid it is. They tend to shut up quickly when you point out the biggest year ever for the WWF was also the year they had top to bottom great wrestling in 2000. But that argument seems to come from the myth and revisionist history that ECW featured great wrestling.

[Strummer]

IMO, workrate does not draw on it's own. Joe/Angle proved that.

 

In the history of wrestling there have tons of bad matches that have drawn. It's all about build.

[Loss]

No one has ever argued that workrate draws on its own or anything like that, at least that I've seen. I agree that it's all about build.

 

I just think some people take that point of view to mean that good wrestling will turn people away.

[Strummer]

Whenever this topic comes up I always think of Bobby Heenan's definition of good wrestling and if that is the general thought of people within the business.

[Al]

Poffo was too much of a comedy guy to ever really go higher than he did. He was super talented, but I think he reached his potential. I like him right where they kept him, and if you listen to him talk nowadays, he has no delusions about his role in wrestling at all.

 

The Hogan match from SNME will always be a favorite of mine, if only because Poffo's Valley girl selling of the Hulk Up -- covering his mouth and acting as if he's just heard that AC Slater and Jessie Spano were holding hands at The Max -- is pretty much the best thing ever. He was capable of doing so many things in the ring, but he built that match around the most flimsy and feminine offense possible to purposely make Hogan look like that much more of a monster. It was great!

This match actually airs on 24.7 as part of the Hulkamania Coliseum video. Poffo's such a unique heel in the match that it can't help but be interesting.