Bix Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 No way, Todd Martin is pretty awful. He did go to Vassar, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 About what one would expect out of Dan on the subject. He does have valid points in it, and his overall theme (how the murders alter forever how one looks at Chris) is one that I would agree on. But... much like the WWE shouldn't have put people on camera on Monday night, I think Dave (or Marvez) shouldn't have other writers on WO.com offering up their opinion thoughts quite yet. It's a developing story... everyone is still trying to gather their thoughts... additional things are coming up that shed more light... it's probably not the best time for Dave to open a live mic on the site. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 About what one would expect out of Dan on the subject. Yeah, pretty much. I think he still doesn't fully understand the bigger picture like people who have been following what goes on behind the scenes for much longer than he has. I'm not surprised there wasn't much insight in the column to any drug or health problems Benoit had, because Dan is still too willing to give the benefit of the doubt before Meltzer confirms what everyone expects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 So apparently, Maven came out in the latest interview of Pro Wrestling Illustrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 So apparently, Maven came out in the latest interview of Pro Wrestling Illustrated.Is this another Kanyon thing for publicity, or does he really have a "partner" and everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 No clue. I just heard it second hand. I haven't seen the issue. Agreed that Kanyon was trying to work a gimmick to get employment from WWE or TNA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 To clarify, it was just a sidebar article, it was in the May issue, and he indicated that he has been happy and in a successful relationship for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 To clarify, it was just a sidebar article, it was in the May issue, and he indicated that he has been happy and in a successful relationship for a long time.Cool. If he's in a relationship and happy, that's his deal and good luck to him. If he was doing it as an angle to get a job, I'd be less than enthused about it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 Say, wasn't Maven supposed to be part of Evolution originally? I was reading the other gay thread and it's a real abortion. So to bring some positivity to the board I thought I'd start a thread on positive representations of gay people in pro wrestling. My favorite example is Triple H. WWE gets a lot of flack for not showing long-range thinking in booking and character development, but the way Helmsley has evolved over the years puts the lie to this. He debuts as a blue-blood snob, bringing a different stripper to the ring with him every week, clearly overcompensating for what went on at Groton. Soon enough he starts palling around with a leatherboy and a pre-op female-to-male tranny undergoing hormone therapy, and they have an ill-defined menage-a-trois, showing how The Cerebral Assassin has become more comfortable with his experiences and more open to exploring his sexuality. Not long after this, though, like so many conflicted gay men, The Game, in a fit of self-loathing and despair, marries a (rather mannish) woman and tries to fit into a heteronormative society. At first he is able to convince himself he is happy, especially as his new wife's father is able to help him with his career, but after a traumatic incident forces him to reevaluate his life, he ends things with her. Unfortunately there is violence involved, but that's frankly pretty common in this sort of relationship. At this point The King of Kings had really upped his steroid intake, which is very common among body-image obsessed gay men who aren't fully comfortable in their own skin, and he even began sporting a handlebar moustache, hinting that he felt real sadness in having missed out on the wild years of the 1970s. He went back to his old lover Shawn Michaels temporarily, but that very night he got violent with him. Soon enough he began hanging out with an aging old queen, a big Chelsea clone, and a rentboy; the four of them formed a sort of alternate nuclear family, an understandable reaction to a world that didn't understand them. As had been typical for him, though, The Connecticut Blueblood tried to exert too much control. His rentboy friend wanted to strike out on his own and establish his own ties to the world; his Chelsea clone friend chafed under Hunter's controlling influence; and eventually even his aging queen friend grew sick of his heavy-handed, domineering ways. As all these relationships fell apart, our man's professional life did as well. What's his response been? It appears that the next evolution for his character will be the long-awaited establishment of a mature, mutually fulfilling relationship with his one true love, the aged leatherboy Shawn Michaels, who's turned to God in an attempt to suppress his own doubts, but appears to have accepted the Episcopalian stance on love between men and God's feelings on the matter. I'd expect there to be some tension over past instances of domestic violence and whether or not HHH can reconcile his long-held doubts on the nature of faith and come to terms with the Anglican Communion (as a Connecticut blue blood, doubtless the family that rejects his sexuality is Episcopalian), but WWE's traditionally sensitive and subtle exploration of these compelling issues should make for fine drama. Looking at this dramatic arc that's taken place over nearly a decade, you have to admire Vince McMahon for showing a talent for long-term booking that even Giant Baba would admire. What other kinds of sensitive pro-wrestling depictions of the joys and sorrows of modern gay life can you think of? Any excuse to post that is a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 Heh. That reminds me of an old Mitchell article where he dissected Raven's Flock gimmick in a very similar manner. It's hilarious how much your average mark is in denial of the homo undertones of two guys in underwear grabbing each other. (I did a stint on the indies as an incompetent pipsqueak Cornette/Hart type manager, and would it surprise you that "FAGGOT" was by far the most common word yelled at me by the rednecks?) Note to indy promoters: someone should team up Kanyon and Maven, and call 'em Gayfabe. Make it so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 Heh. That reminds me of an old Mitchell article where he dissected Raven's Flock gimmick in a very similar manner. It's hilarious how much your average mark is in denial of the homo undertones of two guys in underwear grabbing each other. (I did a stint on the indies as an incompetent pipsqueak Cornette/Hart type manager, and would it surprise you that "FAGGOT" was by far the most common word yelled at me by the rednecks?) Note to indy promoters: someone should team up Kanyon and Maven, and call 'em Gayfabe. Make it so. Or call them the "Fun Athletic Guys", if they can claim that Feinslime doesn't have a claim to the name... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 I think it would be awesome to see someone like The Great Khali that the audience seems to be legit scared of getting a gay gimmick. No change to his presentation at all, just something else about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 I think it would be awesome to see someone like The Great Khali that the audience seems to be legit scared of getting a gay gimmick. No change to his presentation at all, just something else about him.It would be the old Turner Brown joke come to life. Explanation- A little white guy and a tall, thick black guy are in an elevator. The black guy says "7'5", 300 pounds, 6 pound left ball, 6 pound right ball, 15 inch cock, Turner Brown." The white guy faints. When the white guy comes to, he asks the black guy to repeat what he said. The black guy says "7'5", 300 pounds, 6 pound left ball, 6 pound right ball, 15 inch cock, my name is Turner Brown." The white guy then says "Thank God, I thought you said 'Turn around.'" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Those "Michelle McCool is a healthy, athletic woman" vignettes that started on Smackdown last week are really bizarre and hilarious for all of the wrong reasons, like someone finally found out that months ago, Meltzer & Alvarez explained what causes an enlarged kidney, so they had to run these videos to prove it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Poor Michelle McCool. Look what wrestling has done to someone who everyone said was way too nice and wholesome for wrestling not too long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Those "Michelle McCool is a healthy, athletic woman" vignettes that started on Smackdown last week are really bizarre and hilarious for all of the wrong reasons, like someone finally found out that months ago, Meltzer & Alvarez explained what causes an enlarged kidney, so they had to run these videos to prove it wrong.I missed that... What DOES cause enlarged kidneys? Most of what I've found on WebMD says that kidney problems are typically caused by certain drugs OR some types of trauma. (The fact that she went to the hospital in November with a cracked sternum, an electrolyte imbalance and an enlarged kidney at the same time suggest she got the shit knocked out of her and that her kidney was malfunctioning as a result.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Electrolyte imbalance and an enlarged kidney = anorexia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Electrolyte imbalance and an enlarged kidney = anorexia.Ah. Hadn't seen her body lately to be making any judgment calls about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 I picked up the current "Inside Wrestling/ The Wrestler" flip mag yesterday, and they have a REALLY awesome interview with Larry Z. It's not one of those awful fake "press conference" things, it's an actual interview. They do these every now and then. Anyway, there's one story that had me in stitches. Q: Tell me a good Verne Story. A: Verne was a typical old school promoter. In terms of modern technology, he didn't have a clue. When I started in the AWA in'85, all the spy movies were out and everybody was afraid of the Soviet Union. Verne was competing with Vince and every other territory at the time. And Verne became convinced that Vince had the office bugged. Q:If the KGB did it, why not Vince? A: That's right. When I went into his office one day, he had Jack Lanza standing on his desk. Jack's a tall guy, and he had pushed the tiles out of the way so he could look into the ceiling. He had a flashlight looking for bugs! He said, "I don't see any bugs up here, Verne." Verne was standing by his desk and said, "I know they're listening to us!" So Jack and I left Verne's office and then we heard Verne yell, "Jesus Christ!" Then the phone comes bouncing into the hallway. Verne came out and asked, "What the hell is that?" He pointed to the phone lying there, and one of those stick-on digital clocks had been put on the phone. He thought it was a bug! Q: He must have really been convinced that someone was a secret agent there. A: Well, listen to this. Shortly after that, who left Verne's company and winds up a longtime agent for the WWF? Q: Jack Lanza? A: Jack Lanza! Verne wasn't stupid. He knew information was getting out, but he thought it was bugs. The guy looking for the bugs was the stooge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 That's CLASSIC Verne, all right. The next-best story I can think of was him asking Gary Cappetta's opinion of the TV show they were producing (this was the combo AWA-NWA venture). Cappetta told him it sucked and gave examples of why. He asked Verne if he'd noticed the same things and Verne told him "I don't know... I haven't watched the shows." Cappetta was wondering WTF was going on until someone (Paul Ellering, IIRC) told him that Verne lived in a remote area of Minnesota without cable. After he heard that, he asked why Verne didn't just watch the tapes of the show at the office. Verne hadn't ever realized that he could do that. (That was part of why Cappetta didn't work much for Verne, besides the fact that the combo venture was doomed to failure because neither side wanted to put the other over and both sides were trying to steal the other's talent.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Upon reading the Maven story, I'm shocked any self respecting gay man would allow his eyebrows to get that out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Wrong thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Anyone else now really bored with the whole Benoit saga? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FlairPinnedMe Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Wrestling fans are so fickle (duh), they went from really hoping the Benoit tragedy means change in the business to wanting it to blow over so they can enjoy wrestling again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Anyone else now really bored with the whole Benoit saga? Not really, but that is why these things don't stay in the media spotlight for too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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