kevinmcfl Posted July 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 Rain is correct! Any suggestions on how to proceed with this as it is a bug name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainmakerrtv Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 Traditionally, it is finders keepers. I naturally would be inclined towards this because I am the finder. But given that this is a big name (albeit in his rookie year) , I will defer to whatever you guys agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneJackson95 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 17 minutes ago, rainmakerrtv said: Traditionally, it is finders keepers. I naturally would be inclined towards this because I am the finder. But given that this is a big name (albeit in his rookie year) , I will defer to whatever you guys agree with. I would agree with the 'finders keepers" rule.....obviously no one was missing him so I'd say it's only fair. Plus if we officially make a "finders keepers" rule....everyone will be more motivated to do research and make sure we have everyone possible at our disposal. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahoos Leg Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, GeneJackson95 said: I would agree with the 'finders keepers" rule.....obviously no one was missing him so I'd say it's only fair. Plus if we officially make a "finders keepers" rule....everyone will be more motivated to do research and make sure we have everyone possible at our disposal. Just my 2 cents. fine with me as long as that's the standing rule going forward am I correct though that we do a "rookie draft" at the start of 1986 for the new crop, so to speak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainmakerrtv Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 Correct, the draft usually takes place at the beginning of December, the rookies are then available on the first of January. Speaking of which, one guy I was looking up was Mick Foley. Cagematch and Wrestlingdata both only show him having a handful of WWF squash matches in 1986, not enough on their own to qualify. But we know from his book that he had a bunch of indie matches before he did those squash matches, even if they didn't get recorded on the websites later. Any chance we can make an exception and slide him onto the draft? I had a lot of fun in the previous project using him in his rookie year and think, I think he could be a good part of the mix, if someone wants to give him a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmcfl Posted July 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 I am torn on both issues here. The reason Rick Steiner was not in the game is that he actually was listed as debuting in 1983 when he used his real name. When Spaldoni and I first came up with this idea for the game, we started with the year 1984 and we each put in two promotions and then held a draft. I believe it was the AWA, Memphis, Stampede and Southwest. Each new writer who joined added two new promotions until all of the major ones were in. The reason for this is that we had both been involved in other games where we joined late and had some weak rosters and we did not want this to happen to our new writers so they would not get turned off. This also turned out to be the main reason so many wrestlers have been missed. Wrestlers often did not wrestle 10 matches in any one promotion in their first year or they were simply in a promotion that we did not use in the game. Steiner wrestled early on but not much in anyone territory. Of late, we have used the "finders keeper rule" but before that, we used supplemental drafts and picked newly found wrestlers from there. In September, I worked on finding names to add to our game as free agency was low. I found 15 wrestlers including some big names like J.J. Dillion and Carlos Colon. We held a draft for these wrestlers. We held 4 such supplemental drafts in the first 9 months of this project as new promotions joined and each time we did this, the rule was whoever dropped out first had the first pick in the next supplemental draft if we found any names. Following this rule, Spaldoni, who had the second pick but dropped out before he picked anyone would be first in line for Steiner. Rain, who had the 8th pick in that draft also dropped out before he chose anyone would be second in line if Spaldoni did not want him. I believe this system to be better then a "finders keepers rule." Steiner is also a good example of why I think we should keep the 10 match rule. Even though he did wrestle in 1983, he did not win a match in a major promotion until 1985 and he didn't win a title until 1987. I think the rule protects us from rushing people as I would find it hard to keep Rick Steiner on my roster and have him lose every match for two years. The same goes for Mick Foley and Scott Steiner who do not win matches in major territories until 1988. Since we are already allowed to make up jobbers names why ruin future top stars by jobbing them for two years which is what we should do. I am in fact having trouble keeping Leon White down. I so want to bring in Vader but I know it is just wrong as he barely won half of his 15 decisions in 1985. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneJackson95 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 I'm fine with whatever everybody wants to do, this isn't a battle I'm going to choose but as far as the argument of pushing people too soon that happens with 90% of the rookie draft wrestlers in the game...guys like Rick Rude have been used like he was 1989 Rick Rude right of the gate when he was still Rick Rood the jobber in real life. Kokina was being used as "Yokozuna" in his first six months when in real life he would have still been smaller than Samu ever was and there's literally a hundred more examples of that. Not using that as an argument of any sort but just saying if that's going to be a big consideration in decision making then we all need to keep that in mind on how we use people in the time period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainmakerrtv Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 It is an interesting discussion. It is a fine line to walk, we are looking at the wrestlers through modern eyes and knowing what they would become, but dealing with them in their rookie years. For me, that has always been part of the fun of the project, finding things for the young guys to do that will let them show their potential, but bring them along gradually in a semi-realistic fashion. Some guy tried to roast me on the previous project for giving guys pushes too soon, but I replied that I took time to build them up and the pushes I was giving them were in the early to mid card positions I have been lucky to have some guys who had the goods early on (Bigelow, Muto, Yamada), and always make sure to have a core of veterans on the roster who I know could credibly shown as pairing with the rookies , either as partners or opponents, and could be said to be helping their development (Bob Orton, Leo Burke, the Guerreros, Ron Starr). I admit sometimes I have brought some guys along quicker than I should have, notably Tracy Smothers (one of my favorites). I tend to rationalize it by thinking that I am running a large Indy, like Mid-South/UWF, and am in a position where I can take some chances with some younger guys. That is part of the reason I resisted the urge to call my promotion a national, so I didn't have the pressure of having a World Champion and keeping the contenders at a certain level. I think my biggest success has been Texas Red. Mark Callaway is 5 years from being the Undertaker, but I brought him in, had him pull off some cool moves in his first match but still move, partnered him with the Spoiler for a while, let him get over on his own then had him win my #2 belt. My point is, it can be done if you are creative, but need to be careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahoos Leg Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 while we're at it, Billy Two Eagles still is listed as a free agent. I picked him up on the 13th and dropped Tim Patterson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainmakerrtv Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 I dropped Steve Strong / Steve Disalvo some time ago, he should be listed as a free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahoos Leg Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 MACW adds Mick Foley and drops Keith Hart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahoos Leg Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 MACW drops Anthony Falk, signs Steve Blackman, then trades Blackman to WWF for Magic Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneJackson95 Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 Twin States drops Ron Shaw to make room for Frankie Lancaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Scorpio Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 WWF drops Bob Bradley, Brady Boone, and Pete Dougherty to make room for draftees Al Snow, Dan Severn, and Virgil. Also Rip Morgan and Kevin Kelley are still showing on the WWF roster. They were traded to USWA for Big John Studd and Paul Orndorff on July 12th/13th. Just a heads-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Scorpio Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 WWF drops Mike Miller and Joe Savoldi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Scorpio Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 WWF drops The Mongol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmcfl Posted July 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 NWA adds Joe Savoldi and mike Miller and releases The Snowman and Scott Doring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Scorpio Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 The WWF adds free agent Mr. Ito. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Scorpio Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 The WWF adds Salvatore Bellomo and releases Plowboy Frazier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Scorpio Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 The WWF releases Johnny Mantell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneJackson95 Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 Twin States drops Buck Robley and picks up Johnny Mantell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 So, I know I don't have a bit of say in this thing anymore, but I am still reading shows and paying attention when time permits, and I have to ask..... What the hell are you doing? William Regal didn't step foot into the United States until 1993. Robbie Brookside several years after that. Both of them were just getting started in the business, and certainly wouldn't have been touring the U.S. in 1985 Dan Severn was still competing in the Olympic trials during this time frame, and certainly wasn't jeopardizing that by competing in pro wrestling. Damian 666 just began his career in 1985, but didn't become Damian until 1992, and again likely wasn't leaving Mexico unless maybe it was something just across the border in Texas or California. Foley, Douglas, Sabu, Snow, Ottman, Virgil, and Steiner would be working on the lowest level shows imaginable at this point in their careers and would at best be doing jobs on Television. Maybe Houston, Twin States, or St. Louis would use them as more than enhancement talent. I thought the purpose of this exercise was to try and keep things realistic. It's one thing to look the other way when the guy has at least been in the business a couple years and starts getting over pushed like a few have in this game, or when someone gets a variation of a gimmick a few years early..... but Shit, the fact that you like someone doesn't change reality. William Regal is in my Top 3 favorite wrestlers of all time, but he is at least 5 years away from any kind of real push anywhere, and in reality wouldn't have enough of a name to leave the U.K. for at least 10. (I am not singling out the person that picked Regal, just using him as an example) None of these guys should even be on the radar, let alone taking up space on the roster of a fed with the level of talent that anyone but Houston, St. Louis or Twin States has in 1985. Again, I know that I have no dog in this fight anymore, so you can kindly tell me to Fuck Off. But I feel like a lot of good work has been done in this game, and for the most part it has stuck to being fairly realistic. I'd hate to see it go off the rails now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainmakerrtv Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Not wanting to open up a whole big debate here, I certainly respect you and your viewpoint. Believe me, there was a lot of discussion and debate before the decision was made to bring a lot of these wrestlers into the game. If I could just ask one thing : with all due respect, could you please wait until we use these characters before you critique how we are using them? We are all learning as we go here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaldoni Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 USWA releases Ted Allen and would like to pick up Dick the Bruiser as a manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneJackson95 Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 On 7/23/2020 at 5:04 PM, GeneJackson95 said: Twin States drops Ron Shaw to make room for Frankie Lancaster The move above will bring my roster to 55 Then I would like to drop Alexis Smirnoff and Chris Markoff and pick up Ted Allen and Plowboy Frazier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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