Bix Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 http://www.davidbix.com/ I’m joined by Dave Walsh, Steven Louis Lerner, and Andrew J. Wallace as we discuss the wrestling business driving people insane/insane people going into the wrestling business, why you should all watch AAA, Marvin the Baby, Japanese wrestling in 2007 and its western fans, the how the WON awards are shaping up, Edge being awesome, Batista’s turtleneck, and more. An hour and forty-four minutes(!) of exciting wrestling chat. Much better than last time as there’s a format and good discussion and everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spunk Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 I am funny, charming and intelligent. I believe this show is worth listening to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest STAN Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Nice change of pace from having to read all this stuff. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FlairPinnedMe Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Hope you do these regularly Bix. Was that Spunk that did the rant about fighting spirit and Japanese wrestling in 2007 around the beginning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I will listen later on tonight hopefully Bix. When the Don West show is on the docket I expect a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted July 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Hope you do these regularly Bix. Was that Spunk that did the rant about fighting spirit and Japanese wrestling in 2007 around the beginning?Yes, calling dudes "Spunk" and "Ess El El" would be awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I definitely enjoyed this, and hope it becomes a regular thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FlairPinnedMe Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Okay, listening to the rants about Japanese wrestling was pretty interesting. I can't say I agree that anyone currently watching it is watching it just out of obligation, or because they feel they 'have to'. I first started watching Japanese wrestling sometime around 2003 when I was getting bored of WWE. That seems to be the general exposure – people getting bored of one style so they seek out another. Does that mean I’m saying that style is better? No, it’s not. The whole psychology/fighting spirit bullshit has been beaten into the ground at this point. The chop battles can get pretty tedious at times, and the blatant no selling, but like Meltzer said not too long ago, you can’t watch a Japanese wrestling match with the same eyes as an American one. Same goes for lucha. I’ve seen all the stuff from the 90’s, where great matches were being had all the time. Obviously, that’s no longer the case in Japan. That doesn’t mean that it’s dead or that it sucks, as it seems you guys are implying. NOAH has been absolutely horrible for a while now, I wont even try and defend it. New Japan has been on a pretty good upswing since Choshu started booking though, and they’ve got a lot of really good matches, like Nagata vs Tanahashi, Nagata vs Suzuki (I’m guessing I’ll get blasted for that one…). All Japan has been alright with what they’ve got. Dragon Gate is fine, but I don’t really keep up with it much. I’ve I was watching this stuff simply for the obligation, I’d still be watching NOAH as that was my first exposure to this stuff. But it’s awful, so why would I bother? Same guys for current joshi. I watch this stuff because I personally find it more entertaining than the WWE (I’m pretty much talking about New Japan). There’s a bunch of guys in New Japan I really care about seeing. In WWE, there’s hardly anyone left that I care about so I don’t feel too compelled to see it unless there’s a good match or good angle going on, and I’ll check it out. Does this make me a delusional ‘smark’ who’s watching Japanese wrestling so I can be counter culture and elitist? Please… That said, I thought this was a real good show, hopefully there’s more to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spunk Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Okay, listening to the rants about Japanese wrestling was pretty interesting. I can't say I agree that anyone currently watching it is watching it just out of obligation, or because they feel they 'have to'. I first started watching Japanese wrestling sometime around 2003 when I was getting bored of WWE. That seems to be the general exposure – people getting bored of one style so they seek out another. Does that mean I’m saying that style is better? No, it’s not. The whole psychology/fighting spirit bullshit has been beaten into the ground at this point. The chop battles can get pretty tedious at times, and the blatant no selling, but like Meltzer said not too long ago, you can’t watch a Japanese wrestling match with the same eyes as an American one. Same goes for lucha. I’ve seen all the stuff from the 90’s, where great matches were being had all the time. Obviously, that’s no longer the case in Japan. That doesn’t mean that it’s dead or that it sucks, as it seems you guys are implying. NOAH has been absolutely horrible for a while now, I wont even try and defend it. New Japan has been on a pretty good upswing since Choshu started booking though, and they’ve got a lot of really good matches, like Nagata vs Tanahashi, Nagata vs Suzuki (I’m guessing I’ll get blasted for that one…). All Japan has been alright with what they’ve got. Dragon Gate is fine, but I don’t really keep up with it much. I’ve I was watching this stuff simply for the obligation, I’d still be watching NOAH as that was my first exposure to this stuff. But it’s awful, so why would I bother? Same guys for current joshi. I watch this stuff because I personally find it more entertaining than the WWE (I’m pretty much talking about New Japan). There’s a bunch of guys in New Japan I really care about seeing. In WWE, there’s hardly anyone left that I care about so I don’t feel too compelled to see it unless there’s a good match or good angle going on, and I’ll check it out. Does this make me a delusional ‘smark’ who’s watching Japanese wrestling so I can be counter culture and elitist? Please… That said, I thought this was a real good show, hopefully there’s more to come. Well, how much WWE have you watched lately? I can't blame you if you've tried and just don't enjoy it, but I know that for me, personally, I was so anti-WWE and everything it stood for that I rarely gave it a shot. My viewing habits and what I expect from pro-wrestling is so much different now than it was 3 or 4 years ago. I really enjoy watching WWE and AAA at this point, and I seriously thought this point would be when hell froze over; AAA was no CMLL, and WWE was no NOAH. But now, shit, NOAH has so little to offer me, Dragon Gate is just boring, I don't care who they are bringing in to fake fight CIMA, there is just nothing left there for me. I can understand liking something different, I just think for a lot of people, right now, it is stuff that was ignored/slept on for a while for stuff that was just thoroughly disappointing for so long. I've wasted lots of time and money on Japanese wrestling since 2002 when it started to really get crummy, and it was just so hard to watch it and really, really try to find something good and redeeming in it. It was really hard to be all 'YEAH! GO SHIOZAKI!!' when he is pretty bland and his great matches were just kind of alright by most standards. I just grew tired of trying to actively sit there and find something to make wrestling fun when there is so much wrestling on TV that is actually... fun. It is refreshing to sit back and watch MVP tear shit up compared to trying to watch Jun Akiyama find his motivation, or Misawa going through the motions of getting dumped on his head. But, alas, to each their own. I'm just tired and want to have fun with wrestling again. New Japan has been pretty good from the stuff I've caught bits and pieces of. I think Yuji Nagata just didn't get wrestling when he was first champion, and now has such a better understanding of how to pace himself in the ring so much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Thank you for saying "Japanese wrestling" during the podcast instead of trying to pronounce "Puroresu" or calling it "Puro" ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FlairPinnedMe Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Well from that, I can understand your perspective a bit more, and can sympathise with it. As far as recent WWE goes, I've watched the main Cena matches - the one with Umaga from the Rumble, the two Michaels ones, the main event tag for No Way Out I enjoyed. It's pretty hard to like wrestling and not like this stuff, but ever since the last Michaels match on Raw, Cena hasn't been doing anything that interests me too much. Maybe when he gets into a proper feud again, as opposed to doing 4 ways, I'll be interested again. Aside from Cena, no one on Raw really interests me at all. It's hard to care about any matches when I don't care about the guys. Smackdown is a little different in the sense that it's got a lot of guys I care about and want to see - Flair, Edge, Finlay, MVP (I love this guy), Matt Hardy and JBL's commentary. I tend to forget about it though, but I really have to set my tivo for it, because I want to see it more often. I really liked early-mid 90's AAA. I got a best of from AAA in 2003 and thought it was horrible though, so I haven't bothered with it since. But with the way you guys were talking, I'll try and pick some stuff up. The whole thing with these jaded NOAH fans is funny, in how they hype up guys like Shoisaki and bitch about how they never win and such. Akiyama is a pretty sad one to me, he's a guy I really want to love, but he's never given me a reason to love him. I hear he's doing great work elevating Suigiara (sp?) now though, but I just cant bring myself to watch NOAH anymore. I can hear the wanting to have fun with wrestling again though, as I went through a phase in 2005 where anything except NOAH and ROH just wasn't real pro wrestling, and WWE was gay sports entertainment. The main point that I was trying to make though, is that not everyone that follows japanese wrestling now is a jaded smark, but I understand that it's the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spunk Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Thank you for saying "Japanese wrestling" during the podcast instead of trying to pronounce "Puroresu" or calling it "Puro" ... There is nothing I loathe more than 'Puro' or 'Puroresu.' It is so freaking markish. FPM; yeah, I think there are some people who still really enjoy Japanese wrassling, I just can't understand why anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I think Bix's line of Johnny Nitro is Buddy Rose with abs was an all time great line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Why must you hate on BxB Hulk, Dave? Hating on DG guys I'm a fan of aside, it was an interesting listen, and I hope Bix does make this a regular thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Thank you for saying "Japanese wrestling" during the podcast instead of trying to pronounce "Puroresu" or calling it "Puro" ... Why does this bother you? Do you mind Lucha Libre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I follow the Japanese scene because there are still good matches to be found. The last three or four big WWE shows were pretty bad so I'm not seeing how it's some kind of refuge from the horrors of modern-day puroresu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spunk Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Thank you for saying "Japanese wrestling" during the podcast instead of trying to pronounce "Puroresu" or calling it "Puro" ... Why does this bother you? Do you mind Lucha Libre? I think it is just the way that most people use it that is obnoxious. I find this incredibly hard to explain, as it seems contradictory, but calling lucha lucha libre I have no issue with, but calling Japanese Wrestling Puroresu or 'puro' is just so nerdy and obnoxious. It means 'pro-wrestling' so why not just call it fucking pro-wrestling? At least in the case of lucha libre it means 'free fight' (loosely..), so it makes somewhat sense to use the original language for it. The last three or four big WWE shows were pretty bad so I'm not seeing how it's some kind of refuge from the horrors of modern-day puroresu. I really, really don't buy that. But then again, I believe our opinions differ. I haven't enjoyed a Kobashi match in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 The last few matches from Japan that I've really enjoyed all seem to have Shuji Kondo involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Puroresu is just English slang for Japanese pro-wrestling at this point. It's the same as anime, which is Japanese slang for animation in general, but English speaking people use it as slang for specifically Japanese animation. I don't think people are trying to be fake Japanese or whatever by using the terms. It's just a simple way to specifically denote Japanese wrestling. Big match Japanese wrestling has basically been terrible for a while, due to the goofiness and overkill, and that seems to have been the most popular aspect of it, which is why I think people are so down on it. But going back to 2005 (which is the last year I followed a bunch of different promotions), there were quite a lot of good "small" matches from TV, matches that weren't big spectacles or even necessarily between big names. The sort of matches that one wouldn't see unless they were closely following the promotion. They weren't generally MOTYC type matches, but they were solid, enjoyable matches that would have been a god-send on RAW or Smackdown. I really don't know what the current scene looks likes though, or whether the situation is the same. I should probably get watching goodhelmet's best of 2006 and catch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spunk Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Puroresu is just English slang for Japanese pro-wrestling at this point. It's the same as anime, which is Japanese slang for animation in general, but English speaking people use it as slang for specifically Japanese animation. I don't think people are trying to be fake Japanese or whatever by using the terms. It's just a simple way to specifically denote Japanese wrestling. Big match Japanese wrestling has basically been terrible for a while, due to the goofiness and overkill, and that seems to have been the most popular aspect of it, which is why I think people are so down on it. But going back to 2005 (which is the last year I followed a bunch of different promotions), there were quite a lot of good "small" matches from TV, matches that weren't big spectacles or even necessarily between big names. The sort of matches that one wouldn't see unless they were closely following the promotion. They weren't generally MOTYC type matches, but they were solid, enjoyable matches that would have been a god-send on RAW or Smackdown. I really don't know what the current scene looks likes though, or whether the situation is the same. I should probably get watching goodhelmet's best of 2006 and catch up. You are speaking in truths which I enjoy reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted July 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I think Bix's line of Johnny Nitro is Buddy Rose with abs was an all time great line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 The last three or four big WWE shows were pretty bad so I'm not seeing how it's some kind of refuge from the horrors of modern-day puroresu. I really, really don't buy that. But then again, I believe our opinions differ. I haven't enjoyed a Kobashi match in years. Judgment Day, SNME, One Night Stand, and Vengeance were all weak shows with one or two good matches each at the most. SNME and Vengeance had no good matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I watch this stuff because I personally find it more entertaining than the WWE (I’m pretty much talking about New Japan). There’s a bunch of guys in New Japan I really care about seeing. In WWE, there’s hardly anyone left that I care about so I don’t feel too compelled to see it unless there’s a good match or good angle going on, and I’ll check it out. Does this make me a delusional ‘smark’ who’s watching Japanese wrestling so I can be counter culture and elitist? Please… Maybe not you specifically. We painted the situation with a pretty broad brush. I'm sure there are still guys like you who genuinely prefer what's going on in Japan to what's going on in the WWE, and are capable of developing their own opinions about what they like and dislike. And there's still bits and pieces of stuff going on in Japan that are worth watching. I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion to hold. Your arguments are sensible and grounded in reality. Then there are other people who hold similar opinions, but present them in the form of dishonest, inconsistent, inaccurate, condescending rants that speak less to problems with their opinions and more to problems with themselves. Not everyone who likes current puro should be lumped in with that group, but as they say, great minds think alike, and not-so-great minds do, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 The last three or four big WWE shows were pretty bad so I'm not seeing how it's some kind of refuge from the horrors of modern-day puroresu. I really, really don't buy that. But then again, I believe our opinions differ. I haven't enjoyed a Kobashi match in years. Judgment Day, SNME, One Night Stand, and Vengeance were all weak shows with one or two good matches each at the most. SNME and Vengeance had no good matches. Calling Judgment Day "weak" is probably a bit harsh, but I agree with the others. That said, their free TV stuff has been through the roof lately. That's the refuge from modern-day puro right there. Smackdown alone has probably produced more high-end matches so far this year than the entire nation of Japan put together. Incidentally, Spunk, I just use "puro" because "Japanese professional wrestling" is just too unwieldy of a phrase to use regularly. I agree with your general point, it's just a matter of function. I'm long-winded enough as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 JD had two good matches in Hardys vs Cade/Murdoch and Cena vs Khali. Everything else was pretty much forgettable. I've seen dozens of matches out of Japan better than anything I've seen on Smackdown this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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