Control21 Posted September 1, 2023 Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 PWI rankings were kayfabe and not based on anything tangible. Volk Han was never ranked in PWI until 1996 or 1997 and that was his only appearance although he was arguably a top 50 wrestler since at least 1992. I would say that if you really wanted Bigelow, you might need to offer several wrestlers to get a fair deal for Bigelow. I would like Dan Severn but there's no one on my roster that would hold comparable value that I would be willing to let go. These types of decisions are what keep games like this interesting. At least I think so. If I was the Untouchable promotion, I would probably ask for Abdullah the Butcher and Mike Awesome to be included in any deal. But that's just me. Don't take my objection as hostility or anything. I just think we need to stick to the original intentions here otherwise the untouchables list will be pointless and we'll be better off just getting rid of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB Posted September 1, 2023 Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 Yeah, I spoke up about the Nash deal. I get it. You're almost saying verbatim what I said concerning the integrity of the Untouchables. Although, I disagree with your evaluation of Bigelow in 1996. In defense of the RnR Express, they worked for WWF in 1998. Mike Awesome was ECW Champion, Bam Bam wasn't. Also, I realize PWI is a kayfabe magazine which makes a Japanese wrestler like Shinzaki reaching 50 even more impressive in 1995. To be clear, I think conversations like these is part of the fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB Posted September 1, 2023 Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 By the way, @Control21, did you think Jim Duggan for Booker T was fair? Booker T was TV champion pretty much all of '98 and became a world champion by 2000. You had nothing to say about Jake Roberts for Nash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control21 Posted September 1, 2023 Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 No, I didn't think that was fair either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB Posted September 1, 2023 Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 13 minutes ago, Control21 said: No, I didn't think that was fair either Cool, no hard feelings here. I was hestitant to part with Shinzaki, he's awesome. I can totally abide by however you guys want to arbitrate this claim. Shinzaki and the RnR Express is my final offer for Bigelow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB Posted September 1, 2023 Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 On the flip side, I think Yankem DDS straight up for Scott Steiner is fair and @jeff5819 can keep Rikishi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectly Straightedge Posted September 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 I think something I want to add these guys were just going to be added to the game without anyone having to trade in anything next month. I threw out the untouchable idea as a way for us to get the talent but having to give something up in the process. So just in case anyone wanted to join they could build from the list and free agents instead of building from peoples leftovers. Another thing I want to throw out about Untouchable it’s for if someone joins up they have some nice starting guys to have. That’s it! I don’t want that talent sitting there to be so hard to get or people being judged who they threw in to land a talent. That nobody uses it and then we have valuable talent just sitting there it helps nobody. I also view these arguments as opinion based just cause what is exactly a fair trade? It’s all in the eyes of the beholder. If someone can use a guy and build their stock who are we to say well that doesn’t work. I have zero issues with Hakushi for Bam Bam. I mean Bam Bam didn’t build his stock again till he went to ECW. Sure he main evented WM 13 but that’s not really fair cause WWF was struggling and we all know that. Also what’s Bam Bam’s ceiling? It’s 96 so he has his ECW run which is the equivalent of Wing right now for us but if he went to WCW or WWF he wasn’t going to be world champion and would continue working mid of the card just like Hakushi did who put on a banger with Bret at IYH. So yeah I’m going to allow the trade. Just because I want guys incorporated in the game and I don’t want people feeling handcuffed cause they aren’t apart of the big 3. You two don’t have talent that has value for others but for you they are valuable. So it’s not fair for you all. I do want to throw out a scenario what could stop not just Wing but anyone from signing Misawa/Kobiashi or one those big bars overseas for free and trading him in for Bam Bam? See what I am saying. There are loopholes to get around stuff. So let’s not over complicate or overthink things or have people do deals like that. Cause it helps nobody. So I’ve ran into this issue in the past where people are having to defend their trades or whatever and it takes away from the fun. I don’t like that. Cause like I said value is only there if whoever uses them. Cause think about this Nash got cut from WCW, signed by WWF then cut again in our game but I still had to give up a top 5 all time tag team and Jake Roberts last run. I mean shouldn’t that lower Nash value significantly that both global promotions cut him? I’m just saying it turns from fair value to just who can make the best points in order to get their deals through and that’s just a waste of time that I don’t have time to deal with. So Hakushi for Bam Bam is fine, Duggan for Booker T is fine as well. In 96 Booker was only know for Harlem Heat so him getting a massive push would make no sense cause he didn’t even get the tv title till 97 or 98 and that was against Rick Martel, whereas Duggan is an easy plug and play for someone and could work a mid to top program no questions asked cause of the legacy he built already. Also control if you want Severn go ahead and trade someone in for him. cause if not he is just going to sit there forever and that value will continue to drop for him. Cause nobody is going trade in for him. So I would rather have someone use him that I know will then just have sit there forever. So whatever shoot guy you feel is fair throw them in there. Cause nobody else is going to run a shoot promotion. So in the end this list is just for us to put fair talent in for new writers. That’s it nothing more nothing less. If you got the wrong impression of the list then I’m sorry but that’s what it’s there for. So putting guys in that a new writer can use is all that matters to me. It’s also there so not one promotion just cuts guys and signs the whole list for free and gets all that talent and just sits on the talent and not using them to their potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control21 Posted September 1, 2023 Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 If everything is in the eyes of the beholder then it might be best to just abolish the untouchable list anyway because it's just kinda of pointless if anyone and everyone can trade whoever they want. Or just go back to the original idea and use a draft system if no one joins by a certain time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff5819 Posted September 1, 2023 Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 What ever happens with the untouchable list I'm still willing to keep the trade I did for Scott Steiner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectly Straightedge Posted September 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Control21 said: If everything is in the eyes of the beholder then it might be best to just abolish the untouchable list anyway because it's just kinda of pointless if anyone and everyone can trade whoever they want. Or just go back to the original idea and use a draft system if no one joins by a certain time. Yeah I’m going to continue with the list and I will be the final say on trades to the list. That’s the easiest way to solve this. I will make the final decisions. So No third party or any of that cause that’s a waste of time and I’m not doing that or open to that. I listened to opinions and got the game started so now I’m taking over. I am not going to draft the list either cause that defeats the purpose to begin with. I’m not going release all the talent either cause that just means like I stated anyone can just sign everyone. Like I stated previously the untouchable list is for new writers to get a fair shake. If we draft the list that does nothing to help new people so that’s it. If it got misinterpreted then I’m sorry but I’m not going to keep doing this arguing about every trade or keep explaining everything. Cause It’s pointless and annoying. This is a hobby for me. I don’t get paid to do this or to update everything all it does is take time away from me. So yeah this is just how it’s going to be. Plus I already told MLB it was a fair deal last night in DM. So people telling him it’s not undermines my word and I’m not having that again. It’s why these projects go sideways cause they don’t have a leader or someone to put their foot down. So that’s it no more discussion about it. The deal is accepted so either move on or move out. Untouchables List stays with the same rules. I will make the final say if the trade is accepted or declined. All trades that were made today were approved and the rosters will be updated as such. Any issues with that my DMs are open but I consider this matter over and done with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control21 Posted September 1, 2023 Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 I'm not arguing with anyone, but there's certainly no way a promotion would have accepted Hakushi for Bam Bam Bigelow in 1996. That's just a simple fact. If you're fine with that trade then I guess there's nothing I can do about it, but I think these types of trades just take away from our original intentions for the untouchables list and it just turns into a "well, it's fair in my view!" type of thing and the list will eventually just end up being a random assortment of names that won't be attractive to anyone. Again, this is just my two cents and not meant to be confrontational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted September 1, 2023 Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 Just wanted to point out that the basis of my decision to send Duggan on the Untouchables list to get Booker T was that at the time, Duggan still had some high value, as he had came off of a WCW United States Championship reign the year before while Booker T was still a tag team guy. I didn't see myself getting rid of Sting, Luger or Savage just to get a chance to reunite Harlem Heat. I needed the highest guy on my roster possible that'd be worth Booker T getting added so Duggan was my choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control21 Posted September 1, 2023 Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 I'm not too fussed about it but I'm sure Booker T was seen as a guy with huge potential at the time and was being treated like one IIRC so I was just thinking about Duggan's worth at the time in the line of a traditional sports trade. Would a team accept a declining asset for a potential superstar? That's up for debate but most teams wouldn't I think. Anyways, I'm just giving my opinion since I was asked for it. Not trying to be a fly in your ointment. I understand why you would want him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB Posted September 1, 2023 Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 Thank you, @Perfectly Straightedge, for the ruling on Bigelow. I am certain it was a typo, but Bigelow-LT main evented WrestleMania 11, not 13. @Control21 you're entitled to your opinion and you made some valid points. We both laid out our arguments well. Everybody was civilized about this. Onita, on the other hand, might have some more words for Maeda trying to sabotage W*ING USA. For the hell of it, here is that '96 shoot between Bam Bam and Kimo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB Posted September 1, 2023 Report Share Posted September 1, 2023 8 hours ago, Perfectly Straightedge said: I do want to throw out a scenario what could stop not just Wing but anyone from signing Misawa/Kobiashi or one those big bars overseas for free and trading him in for Bam Bam? See what I am saying. There are loopholes to get around stuff. So let’s not over complicate or overthink things or have people do deals like that. Cause it helps nobody. This was an excellent point that was raised and I hadn't even considered that possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectly Straightedge Posted September 4, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 Everything is updated but Free Agency is on hold as we have a new member joining the ranks *FREE AGENCY IS FROZEN* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff5819 Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 Great to see new promotion opening up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectly Straightedge Posted September 4, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 Smoky Mountain Wrestling will be joining the ranks. The roster in posted on the main page. The NWA and SMW have come to terms on a deal. The NWA will send Chris Candido and The Godwins SMW will send The 1-2-3 Kid *Free Agency is Open* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 With free agency reopened, W*ING USA brings back Luna Vachon and signs Blue Meanie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff5819 Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 Couple of quick notes. Due the trade to the untouchables I currently am only using 44 of the 45 slots and I noticed Tom Prichard is also on my roster as Zip but I'm happy for SMW to keep him if they wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 That was my bad, Jeff. I didn't see Zip on your roster when I complied the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectly Straightedge Posted September 4, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 3 minutes ago, jeff5819 said: Couple of quick notes. Due the trade to the untouchables I currently am only using 44 of the 45 slots and I noticed Tom Prichard is also on my roster as Zip but I'm happy for SMW to keep him if they wish. That's my bad as well. so if you want to let SMW have them that's not a problem and also really nice of you to do. Also as for the numbers on rosters. I haven't done a good job at keeping that updated. I will put a number on everyone's roster after I finish up my NWA show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 W*ING USA trades Stalker (Barry Windham) to WCW for Raven. Also, go ahead and drop Terrible Ted the Wrestling Bear from W*ING USA's roster as I will not be employing that angle any longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff5819 Posted September 5, 2023 Report Share Posted September 5, 2023 No worries. He's fine to keep him as I was only going to use him as jobber to the stars an I can see a Heavenly reunion in SMW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectly Straightedge Posted September 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2023 The NWA is at 40. Let's get ourselves back up to cap The NWA will sign the following talent Disco Inferno Squire David Taylor Gangrel Mike Enos Wayne Bloom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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